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qman
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26572968 - 04/02/20 10:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: Even the QE that is going into the financial system for the past 12 years hasn't hurt the US Dollar. The Fed balance sheet is now over $5 trillion and growing. It's likely to top $10 trillion in short order now.
The good thing about QE is that the Fed can always sell it's assets and take the money back out of the economy if it needs to, though it hasn't seemed to need to thus far.
It all depends on how the printed money is used. If The Fed bought all of the student debt and eliminated the burden for students, that would create strong demand and economic growth. The Elite doesn't want the outcome.
Edited by qman (04/02/20 10:24 AM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
#26572977 - 04/02/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think they mind strong demand and economic growth. The outcome they want to avoid is money going to students rather than themselves.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26573638 - 04/02/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, the calculus here is much simpler.
Option one: 10 units of economic growth, of which wall street keeps 8.
Option two: 20 units of economic growth of which wall street keeps 10.
Wall street prefers option one.
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qman
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#26573653 - 04/02/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't think they mind strong demand and economic growth. The outcome they want to avoid is money going to students rather than themselves.
At this point in the debt cycle, they can't have real economic growth and inflation (in their minds). They own the vast majority of the municipal/state, corporate, Federal, mortgage and personal debt. They don't want to see that debt inflated away as bondholders.
They could print money and make the debt burden go away tomorrow and have real economic growth return on Main Street. They don't want that outcome, they prefer debt slavery and low growth.
Ever notice they never ask 'who's going to pay for it?' when it comes to their tax cuts and trillions in "stimulus"?
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susurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
#26574022 - 04/02/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
They could print money and make the debt burden go away tomorrow and have real economic growth return on Main Street. They don't want that outcome, they prefer debt slavery and low growth.
Are the theys all the same people here?
Or are the first they: congress and the admin. And the second they: the banks?
-------------------- "If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."
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Brian Jones
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
#26574378 - 04/03/20 01:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't pretend to understand this issue. I remember being very concerned about the deficit in the late 70's. Yet it just keeps rolling on with more zero's added. One would think at some point it has to come tumbling down, but they just keep rigging the system.
What do you think is the last nail in the coffin scenario, and any guesses on the time frame?
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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susurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Brian Jones]
#26574414 - 04/03/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm struggling to wrap my head around it, myself.
From what Still says in his videos, he's submitted some kind of paper to the White House and thinks it got into the right hands.
Since then Trump boasted that he could pay off the national debt by the end of his next term.
From what I gather the main reason we pay Federal income tax is to pay the interest on the national debt...
It's great for the people at the top pulling money out of their ass and loaning it to the US. Bad for everyone that has to pay for it and the interest.
Still thinks the Treasury should go back to creating the country's money. It is all funny money anyway. I don't know if there is any money backed by precious materials anymore. At some point they realized the backing wasn't necessary for the money to work.
But if the country ditched the FED... we don't go into debt to create money. There must be ways to manage this without inflation and without the FED.
-------------------- "If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."
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Brian Jones
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
#26574491 - 04/03/20 04:10 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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He actually said he could pay off the national debt by his next term? That is mind-blowing beyond everything he's ever said before. I don't think he's going to have another term, but if he does it's going to be unpleasant. Right or wrong, there would be absolutely nothing he could get away with blaming somebody else for.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
#26574840 - 04/03/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
susurrador said: From what Still says in his videos, he's submitted some kind of paper to the White House and thinks it got into the right hands.
Still is an imbecile, who thinks we can just print money to get ourselves out of debt. Things obviously don't work that way. Countries have tried it and ruined their currency through hyperinflation. I don't know why you keep ignoring that very basic fact?
He also wrongfully thinks the Government has to borrow every dollar into existence. Yes, money CAN be borrowed into existence if we choose to go into debt (that's how fractional reserve banking works), but a) the Government don't have to go into debt in the first place and b) we generally go into debt by selling treasuries for cash that already exists.
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susurrador said: Since then Trump boasted that he could pay off the national debt by the end of his next term.
If so, Trump is an idiot. It won't happen if anyone on his team knows a thing about economics.
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susurrador said: From what I gather the main reason we pay Federal income tax is to pay the interest on the national debt...
No. But because we are currently in so much debt, something like 8% of our income taxes goes towards interest. But we can fix that as I've stated above - simply by restoring higher taxes on the rich and paying down the debt!
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susurrador said: Still thinks the Treasury should go back to creating the country's money. It is all funny money anyway. I don't know if there is any money backed by precious materials anymore. At some point they realized the backing wasn't necessary for the money to work.
But the Treasury DOES still create the country's money. If Still said otherwise, he's more an imbecile than I thought. And yes, money isn't backed by precious materials, nor does it need to be. You can always buy gold if you prefer precious metals.
Quote:
susurrador said: But if the country ditched the FED... we don't go into debt to create money. There must be ways to manage this without inflation and without the FED.
We don't go into debt to create money. Though we sometimes create money to go into debt.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
#26575000 - 04/03/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
susurrador said:
Quote:
qman said:
They could print money and make the debt burden go away tomorrow and have real economic growth return on Main Street. They don't want that outcome, they prefer debt slavery and low growth.
Are the theys all the same people here?
Or are the first they: congress and the admin. And the second they: the banks?
The very wealthy which control the banks and ultimately control our fiscal, monetary and tax policy through government.
The Elite want control of resources and debt slavery. There's over $250 trillion of debt globally, the vast majority of that debt is owned by very few hands. That's the result of giving The Elite tax cuts and then having to issue debt which they buy. The more they own, the more power they have over economic policy going forward.
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susurrador
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
#26576637 - 04/04/20 03:06 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- "If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: susurrador]
#26577192 - 04/04/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
susurrador said: https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/04/03/was-fed-just-nationalized
"Did Congress just nationalize the Fed? No. But the door to that result has been cracked open."
Your article states the Fed is currently doing exactly what it was originally designed to do. The Fed has always been overseen by the Federal Government, so nothing new is going on here.
From your article (and this has ALWAYS been true):
"The benefit of having the Fed rather than private bondholders hold the bonds is that the Fed rebates its profits to the Treasury after deducting its costs, making the loans virtually interest-free. Interest-free loans rolled over indefinitely are in effect free money."
What they don't mention is that the potential downside of doing this is hyperinflation. But we know that hyperinflation isn't too big a concern during economic downtimes like we're seeing now. And if it ever starts to become a problem, the Fed simply sells its bonds and take the money back out of circulation.
Your article does say Government is giving the vast majority of the money to Wall St rather than Main St, and I agree with that 100%, and I think that's awful. But that's Congress' fault, NOT the Fed's.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#26577578 - 04/04/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: I don't pretend to understand this issue. I remember being very concerned about the deficit in the late 70's. Yet it just keeps rolling on with more zero's added. One would think at some point it has to come tumbling down, but they just keep rigging the system.
What do you think is the last nail in the coffin scenario, and any guesses on the time frame?
Last nail in the coffin scenario would be a combination of three things:
1) Oil is traded in currencies other than USD
2) USD is no longer the world reserve currency
3) Loss of confidence in the US system
#1 is starting to happen already, Russia and China were talking about dealing in gold. #3 may also be starting to happen. We'll have to see how diplomacy continues after diaper don. If it's guarded but friendly, then we're fine. If they keep laughing at the next POTUS, we're fucked. Another reason for #3 to occur would be yet another disastrous war in the middle east. If we attack Iran and the Millennium Challenge plays out, costing us an aircraft carrier, then #3 will occur.
#2 is directly tied to #3.
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meltdowner
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26582981 - 04/06/20 11:00 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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A debt reset would be an interesting time to live, thats for sure.
Btw Falcon, good posts, thank you.
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman] 1
#26593552 - 04/11/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: there is clear reason to where the printed money goes, it goes directly into the financial system (Wall Street) and never enters Main Street.
Interestingly, a Canadian billionaire said the U.S. government should let hedge funds and billionaire CEOs 'get wiped out' by the coronavirus-induced economic collapse and instead focus its attention on rescuing Main Street.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26593899 - 04/11/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, that interview went all over the internet in short order. At the end of the day, they're going to do whatever they want to do.
In other news. https://fortune.com/2020/04/09/fed-buying-junk-bonds-corporate-america-federal-reserve-coronavirus/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-junkbonds/junk-bond-prices-rally-after-fed-offers-a-lifeline-idUSKCN21R2HC
Look at this, the Fed is going to print money to buy junk bonds. This isn't capitalism, it's corporate fascism and it's completely out of control.
So the Fed can now buy trillions of debt off of highly irresponsible companies to make Wall Street happy, but the idea of helping people with their student loan debt is 'insanity with who is going to pay for it'.
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Kryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
#26593907 - 04/11/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Money printer go BRRRRRR
Good thing we got rid of CFPB oversight into junk lenders, and good thing we got rid of stimulus oversight. That way, nosy people like qman soon won't know where their tax money goes, and what they don't know won't hurt them.
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qman
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: Kryptos]
#26601689 - 04/14/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2020/04/14/coronoavirus-espn-asks-top-commentators-take-pay-cuts/2994329001/
"15% pay cuts over the next three months"
This is what happens when you piss away $50 billion plus in share buybacks the past 10 years!!!
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qman
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
#26601702 - 04/14/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kryptos
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Re: The Fed may be sitting down to its last supper soon. [Re: qman]
#26601754 - 04/14/20 10:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hate to say I told ya so...but yeah, that's basically what everyone knew was gonna happen.
Remember that next time you vote.
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