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Invisible10kVisions
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Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’)
    #26568697 - 03/31/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I’m baffled, it’s been 4 years of persistence and I’ve got VERY VERY little to show for it.  Would love to talk to someone m who knows high alt. Growing if possible.

Before you reply:
Yes I purge my PC
Yes I’m adjusted my PC time/pressure for my alt.
Yes I do agar
Yes I’ve tested straight syringe knocks
Yes I use a SAB
Yes I’m FAR cleaner than probably 90% of people, gloves, arm sleeves, alcohol on everything and even chanting gloves between parts of the process...
Yes I’ve ordered new syringes time and time again
Temps steady 74-76 degrees

1. Still dealing with contams
2. NO MATTER WHAT I do none of my jars colonize on top
3. When I do get a monotub to colonize it’s taking over a month to grow.

I specifically want to talk to high altitude growers. I appreciate all the input on here but Please don’t respond if you have no experience at high altitudes
Thanks
10k


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26568721 - 03/31/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

RRs farm was at your altitude and he used low pressure steam for substrate

The altitude has literally nothing to do with contaminants. I wouldn't concern yourself with believing that's a reasonable avenue to investigate for the problems you're experiencing. Lots of times the people who Overkill with gloves and sleeves etc need some skills help.

Record your agar sessions or something


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Invisible10kVisions
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26568757 - 03/31/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
RRs farm was at your altitude and he used low pressure steam for substrate

The altitude has literally nothing to do with contaminants. I wouldn't concern yourself with believing that's a reasonable avenue to investigate for the problems you're experiencing. Lots of times the people who Overkill with gloves and sleeves etc need some skills help.

Record your agar sessions or something




I’ve posted my skills, posted agar, etc etc and everyone (including you)said, things  looks great colonize it, And then I get the same result...  I’ve done the overkill clean thing, I tried to simply not go overkill but be super anal on technique... still same results.  Jars never colonize in top and contams get in tubs (which I imagine has something to do with jars not colonizing in top).

I’m a very black and white person, I don’t overthink stuff, science makes sense to me yet I can seen to get anyone with actual reasons why things might not be working.  just a bunch of “your probably not doing this” or “it’s probably this”...


Even more frustrating part is my old methods which never included agar or anything, grew like mad, I would get contams now and again but never this consistent.  Now that I moved it seems as if none of my methods work.  Why would things change so drastically if alt. Has nothing to do with it? What else would it be?


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Edited by 10kVisions (03/31/20 10:12 AM)


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26568824 - 03/31/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Have you made any changes to your method?? Sorry but I'm 64feet above sea level so I have no idea about high altitude citizen scientist bs..perhaps a bad batch of coir? Have read that eco earth can be shit sometimes..gremlins I tell ya!


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sunny Skies]
    #26568877 - 03/31/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Your grains not colonizing on top is what i would check.

Filter
Lids
Prep
Brand
Sterilization
Etc...


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Invisible10kVisions
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26568979 - 03/31/20 12:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Your grains not colonizing on top is what i would check.

Filter
Lids
Prep
Brand
Sterilization\
Etc...




Filter  - meaning poly fil?  what do i check? I've tried using more in some and less in others keeping track of which is with and they all grow the same

Lids - I have had all brand new jars and lids during this process 3x over.  used new metal, went to plastic, then went and purchased all new lids again just 2 months ago (metal) still same results

Prep - meaning?  i soak my seed for 24 hours, rinsing 3x at first, cleaning out most of the "floaters" as best i can, then at the 24 hour mark i rinse seed again 2-3x util water runs off clean.  Dry with hair drier until nothing sticks to a paper towel but ins't completely dry.  jar and cover with foil.

Brand - ? (not sure what you mean)

Sterilization - 19psi for 2.5 hours with purging for 10 min (following your steps)


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Invisible10kVisions
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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sunny Skies]
    #26568983 - 03/31/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sunny Skies said:
Have you made any changes to your method?? Sorry but I'm 64feet above sea level so I have no idea about high altitude citizen scientist bs..perhaps a bad batch of coir? Have read that eco earth can be shit sometimes..gremlins I tell ya!




lol yeah ive worked my method(s) backwards multiple times over and can't find anything consistent... coir is coir, ive had 4 brands of it... same result.


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26569051 - 03/31/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

your filter was drying your grain.
sounds like you have a dirty culture issue.
these can be hard to spot on agar so your best bet is to post some pics


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: cronicr]
    #26569097 - 03/31/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
your filter was drying your grain.
sounds like you have a dirty culture issue.
these can be hard to spot on agar so your best bet is to post some pics




this is teh last agar i did before it went into jars inside a SAB.. gloves, no air, sprayed with water (inside) i follow Bodhi's Tek to the letter.



these were back in june and were approved by the forums etc etc... i thus then had jars that all went bad after putting them into mono tubs. like always.

agar inside sab to jar tek:
unwrap plate, leaving lid on and setting it onto of 2 empty plates as to keep it off the surface.
open jar while NOT removing lid
open plate keeping lid over top as best as possible while cutting a wedge using a knife sterilized by flame until red
pick out wedge from plate and transfer into jar, setting lid on plate back down and then lift the lid of the jar just enough to get the wedge inside and then putting lid back on... the only way i could do this any better would be to be upside down the whole time.

jars still do the same thing.. they colonize 90% just not on top much or very little

jars into mono tubs and usually within 2 weeks i get mold.  teh "successful ones" will get one flush but it will take 1 to 1.5 months for it to happen and then will get moldy

ive worked with polyfil inside holes Tek, Bodhi's unmodified Tek and a combination of both (poly fill right from teh start with lids on.)
one thing about where i am is that its dry, and i mean SUPER dry.  so my tubs will dry out extremely fast and i've had to figure out how to get teh moisture content higher in them constantly.  still haven't dialed this one in yet.  and spraying them down daily makes them go bad 3x faster even if im using bottled water that's never been opened inside a sprayer i ran alcohol though and let sit for 10 min...

so, how can i test anything anyone is suggesting?  im kindof tired if hearing "this is probably your problem" with no scientific evendence to back it up let alone no guidance on how to test it.
frustrating.


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Edited by 10kVisions (03/31/20 01:14 PM)


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26569109 - 03/31/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I would have made a couple more transfers there fam, what type of contam are you getting


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: cronicr]
    #26569113 - 03/31/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
I would have made a couple more transfers there fam, what type of contam are you getting





since then iv'e got to a 5 transfer system.  still same results. i always get green mold.  very little anything else.  ive seen cobweb but its typical in teh agar plate before anything and gets thrown out.

....i added a bunch of info to the last post...


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26569126 - 03/31/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

your grain not colonizing on top is purely your filter drying them out, nobody is guessing there, your posted plates are suspect at best, a couple look good from here but things to watch for is that translucent ring around that last plate and bit of discoloration around the edges.
I would look at the hole size on your grain jars and your filter type, in the mean time rock a quick ms grow and get something to clone.
go basic, skip the food coloring for now rock what used to work for you and go from there


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: cronicr]
    #26569144 - 03/31/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
your grain not colonizing on top is purely your filter drying them out, nobody is guessing there, your posted plates are suspect at best, a couple look good from here but things to watch for is that translucent ring around that last plate and bit of discoloration around the edges.
I would look at the hole size on your grain jars and your filter type, in the mean time rock a quick ms grow and get something to clone.
go basic, skip the food coloring for now rock what used to work for you and go from there




Here is the last set of agar on the 4th transfer about a week in and the jars that i eventually colonized with them.  this is some of the best growth iv'e ever seen in my years of doing this and these jars
1. din't colonize on top and 2. went bad in tubs.

as of last Thursday i got a brand new syringe, cooked 10 jars at 19pdi for 2.5 hours, left


ok so that being said.  i have 1/4 in holes (as instructed by everyone) with poly fill stuffed in them, i've tried different amounts of poly fill having some packed really tight and others loose and haven't seen any different in teh colonization of the jars.  do i need the holes?  i've though about PC'ing jars without holes in them but something tells me the pressure would build inside the jar causing it to explode... maybe im wrong though?

thank you for tlaking through this with me, im COMPELETLEY ok with going though ever step in detail start to finish if you would like.  anytime got get this figured out...

p.p.s MS Grow?  not sure i know that term


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Edited by 10kVisions (03/31/20 01:36 PM)


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26569172 - 03/31/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I reread the whole thread and I think we all missunder stand RH in our homes and areas because people don't move much. Like is someone is in Wisconsin someone else is in Jamaica and someone else is in NY everyone's grain prep needs to be different. Field capacity at spawn with not be the same for different climates. Cubes are sub tropical so if you live at 10k feet and the air is super dry add more water to everything.

Also load your WBS wet, strain it and then load it wet before PC run. That might fix the uncolonized issues. The culture issue is another animal.

If your constantly having to add water to your tubs start with way over hydrated substrate. Maybe add 4qrts of Vermiculite to a brick of coir.

Your definitely battling a dry air issue. Also is this relative to the time of year? Do you have these issues in the summer?


Edited by Sockadin (03/31/20 01:53 PM)


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sockadin]
    #26569204 - 03/31/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If you are using polyfill , they definitely need to be stuffed as tightly as humanly possibly.  Lightly stuffed would cause both issues:  grains drying out and the worse one, contamination.  The holes are necessary for gas exchange that the mycelium needs.  Growth looks good in those jars, but we would need to see pictures of them 100% colonized to tell anything. 

Your plates look questionable, could be fine or could have contams.


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sockadin]
    #26569207 - 03/31/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I am curious if you are shaking it up at 30% or so colonization? If you have un colonized wbs are you adding that to your tub when spawning?


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Baeomaze]
    #26569446 - 03/31/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
I reread the whole thread and I think we all missunder stand RH in our homes and areas because people don't move much. Like is someone is in Wisconsin someone else is in Jamaica and someone else is in NY everyone's grain prep needs to be different. Field capacity at spawn with not be the same for different climates. Cubes are sub tropical so if you live at 10k feet and the air is super dry add more water to everything.

Also load your WBS wet, strain it and then load it wet before PC run. That might fix the uncolonized issues. The culture issue is another animal.

If your constantly having to add water to your tubs start with way over hydrated substrate. Maybe add 4qrts of Vermiculite to a brick of coir.


Your definitely battling a dry air issue. Also is this relative to the time of year? Do you have these issues in the summer?




first, thanks for understanding the alt. issue. i feel so many people just disregard it.  as for the WBS load wet situation.  this is something i haven't tried.  all of my jars colonize fine, time wise and all they are good... except for the top.  i'll have to give this a go with 10 jars on the next go round and see what happens.  as for the tubs.  even with the 3ish (probably a bit more) quarts of water on 2 quarts of Verm the colonize great and maintain moisture while closed.  its when i add FAE that they dry out in about 24/48 hours and its very difficult for me to keep moitrure in them.
so on the next run of G2G with what i hope will be good colonized jars i'll set 10 aside and do exactly that, fully wet Grains and 4quarts verm and see what happens.
thanks

Quote:

rickyswamps said:
If you are using polyfill , they definitely need to be stuffed as tightly as humanly possibly.  Lightly stuffed would cause both issues:  grains drying out and the worse one, contamination.  The holes are necessary for gas exchange that the mycelium needs.  Growth looks good in those jars, but we would need to see pictures of them 100% colonized to tell anything. 

Your plates look questionable, could be fine or could have contams.




so im not "lightly stuffing" them.  i won't say im jamming them so full that its a toal pain in the butt to get the polyfil though the hole but they're tight.  maybe i need to use a different method... not a polyfil method.  for the record though i have tested a "tight" fit and a "loose" fit and both yielded similar results in the colonization. 


Quote:

Baeomaze said:
I am curious if you are shaking it up at 30% or so colonization? If you have un colonized wbs are you adding that to your tub when spawning?




yes, this is now my 6th year doing this, the steps and how to / when to do them aren't a concern its more of what changed since moving... i even have a 45 page note book of notes i've been keeping track with.  part of what is so baffling is the simple fact that NOTHING is constant.  I'm about to test my room for green mold.  if im working in a contaminated room, it would explain allot. but also wouldn't explain some things like why 2 out of 4 will grow and then using the same jars as i just did, i'll loose everything in 6 days.


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26569476 - 03/31/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If your RH in you house is low your mold count is gonna be low. How often do you see mold on agar? Take a freshly poured plate and swish is around the room with the lid off. I recently did this. I have a vornado300 or some Hepa thing in my bedroom. Turned it on and let it run for 20 mins then opened a plate infront of the discharge for 2 seconds and it grew some nasty green mold. But I had a dehumidifier running in my bathroom cause of a water leak for 2 weeks and did the open air swoop with a plate and it never grew anything.


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: Sockadin]
    #26569522 - 03/31/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
If your RH in you house is low your mold count is gonna be low. How often do you see mold on agar? Take a freshly poured plate and swish is around the room with the lid off. I recently did this. I have a vornado300 or some Hepa thing in my bedroom. Turned it on and let it run for 20 mins then opened a plate infront of the discharge for 2 seconds and it grew some nasty green mold. But I had a dehumidifier running in my bathroom cause of a water leak for 2 weeks and did the open air swoop with a plate and it never grew anything.




honestly when i got my syringes brand new (2 from lil shop 2 from mush.com) i did arbout 30 plates and used different syringes for each just to test.  for once i didn't get a single plate with mold.  i've dry tested plates inside and outside the sab before and seen mold in both and nothing in both as well.  using the same syringes as mentioned above, now days when i do plates i see 50/50 mix of mold to no mold on 20ish poured plates (average of how many i usually do each time).  answer me this.

1. would leaving the syringes in teh room temp (74-76º) cause bad things to grow in them?
(if so that would explain why i see allot more contams for the same syringes now than i did when i first got them)

2. i recently knocked a fresh set of jars straight from a syringe (flaming in between etc etc) and now am worried there isn't enough filter so im wondering if i should just add a few layers of paper tape over the top of the polyfill to help filter them?  i figure pulling the poly fill and opening the jars to restful them would definitely not be a good idea.  these jars have been sitting about 6 days or so.

ok so i have some jars i can use to do a Vermiculite moisture test.  not to say teh jars are  amazing or anything but they  are colonized (all but the top) and why do a dry test on coir with not a possibility of any growth? lol

so here is my plan and i have a new document setup so i can keep daily track with photos..

Water to Vermiculite mix test (moisture test)
Current - 4qW to 2qV

bucket 1 - 4qW to 3qV
Bucket 2 - 4.5qW to 3.5qV
Bucket 3 - 5qW to 4qV

let me know your thoughts on that.
cheers


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Edited by 10kVisions (03/31/20 05:01 PM)


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Re: Hi alt. Growing (8-10k’) [Re: 10kVisions]
    #26569578 - 03/31/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe make some lids with SFD patches or even syringe filters? Probably help with the tops drying out and not colonizing. I like to use syringe filters on my jars personally, even though they can be costly if youre doing lots of lids, and they probably dont work any better than a regular filter patch, but they probably would let less moisture escape the jar.

If youre always getting to the end step of spawning to your bulk before things go bad, maybe thats where the issue sits. If youve been having tubs go green after the move, maybe the house has a high concentration of mold spores in the air thats getting in when you spawn. Try doing a test run at another place if you can, or at least spawn it some place else and seal it up before bringing it home to colonize, see if you get the same problem.


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