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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: One of Us]
    #26568665 - 03/31/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

We are not parroting anything. Its because its obvious. Cooking a pot of hulled oats is like cooking a pot of jasmine rice. What do you get once the water is absorbed? a mass of shit stuck together. With hulls in place the sticky inner meat is contained within the hull. Not sure how to make that easier to grasp.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: Smartattack]
    #26568680 - 03/31/20 09:22 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you this  is the type of answer I was looking for... and I am sorry this wasn't obvious to me because I have never cooked groats before. I had no idea that it is like jasmine rice. Since you have tried them before did you try rinsing them before hand or not cooking as long? Is it that the bran doesn't hold back the starches well enough by itself? And needs the hull to reinforce it? Or is it that the bran itself is sticky when cooked, and it isn't a problem of the inner starch itself?


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: One of Us] * 1
    #26568724 - 03/31/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Even intact whole grains can stick together if over prepped. A grain that is processed in any way is going to compound that enormously, especially fully hulled grain. Mycelium will struggle to colonize it, you will struggle to shake said "grains" and the will likely be contamination magnets. Basically, just use whole grains. There are plenty of pieces to innovate in the hobby but reinventing the wheel that the pieces ride on is not wise IMO.

There are such things as uncle bens tek but nobody around here talks about that stuff. I personally find it a cringy concept as well.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: poisoned]
    #26568737 - 03/31/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Quote:

gizmo1 said:
If you prep your grains right they shouldn't be a sticky mess.




Agreed, because they will still be in hulls. I'd love to be proven wrong, so show me a successful hulled oats grow.
Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Plenty of the grains used as spawn have no hull.



I'm always seeing people using whole grains. But I don't have much experience with other grains, so I might be wrong.



Do you're own research. People have been using wbs for years there are plenty of grains in wbs with no hull. For some reason you are making the assumption that a hull will keep grains from being sticky. If you prep the grain wrong it can become sticky hull or no hull.
You agree with me. Then say prove you wrong as of I had made two different statements in the first part of that reply. Grains shouldn't be sticky if prepared correctly. One statement. Not specific to oats. Why would I have to prove something you agree with do you need me to link you a wbs grow?

I've used wheat with no hull. I've used rye with no hull. Millet no hull. Milo no hull.
Lmao nevermind I'm done here you sir are acting.


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Edited by gizmo1 (03/31/20 10:03 AM)


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: gizmo1]
    #26568747 - 03/31/20 10:03 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

https://www.123rf.com/photo_98976831_stock-vector-grain-anatomical-layers-vector-illustration-diagram-with-bran-endosperm-germ-and-hull-biology-scienc.html


If the grain has the endosperm exposed, you have a mess. Processed grain like steel cut oats (as originally asked, he said nothing about WBS or BRF teks) have the endosperm completely exposed.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: Smartattack]
    #26568760 - 03/31/20 10:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
We are not parroting anything. Its because its obvious. Cooking a pot of hulled oats is like cooking a pot of jasmine rice. What do you get once the water is absorbed? a mass of shit stuck together. With hulls in place the sticky inner meat is contained within the hull. Not sure how to make that easier to grasp.



Have you ever prepped hulled oats? Sounds like you are speaking from first hand knowledge. I haven't. Don't have access to them. I almost guarantee if you send me some I can prep them so they aren't sticky. Then again I don't need a crutch like a hull to prep grains. The hull is also what makes oats a shitty grain. Makes it hard to identify contamination and also hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria.

I removed the stuff about brf but you did bring up rice. It's is used as as spawn and has no hull even if it makes shit spawn.

It's obvious oatmeal doesn't work. Oats intact lacking a hull in theory should work just fine if you know how to prep grain.


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: gizmo1]
    #26568766 - 03/31/20 10:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
We are not parroting anything. Its because its obvious. Cooking a pot of hulled oats is like cooking a pot of jasmine rice. What do you get once the water is absorbed? a mass of shit stuck together. With hulls in place the sticky inner meat is contained within the hull. Not sure how to make that easier to grasp.



Have you ever prepped hulled oats? Sounds like you are speaking from first hand knowledge. I haven't. Don't have access to them. I almost guarantee if you send me some I can prep them so they aren't sticky. Then again I don't need a crutch like a hull to prep grains. The hull is also what makes oats a shitty grain. Makes it hard to identify contamination and also hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria.

I removed the stuff about brf but you did bring up rice. It's is used as as spawn and has no hull even if it makes shit spawn.

It's obvious oatmeal doesn't work. Oats intact lacking a hull in theory should work just fine if you know how to prep grain.





I have not, but given that avoiding burst grain is one of the objectives in grain prep to avoid a mess i see no reason to make it more likely. Also if you are going to flex about being good at prepping grain, then you should say nothing about oats being shitty or more likely to contaminate. Many of us use them and even prefer them and don't have issues that are grain related.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: gizmo1]
    #26568773 - 03/31/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Have you ever prepped hulled oats? Sounds like you are speaking from first hand knowledge. I haven't. Don't have access to them. I almost guarantee if you send me some I can prep them so they aren't sticky.




I think the burden of proof is on you here. I am again gladly inviting you to show me just 1 successful grow with hulled oats. There's successful grows with whole oats posted on here all the time.

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Then again I don't need a crutch like a hull to prep grains. The hull is also what makes oats a shitty grain. Makes it hard to identify contamination and also hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria.





So, do you know how to prep grains or not? Because if you do, your grains will harbour zero bacteria or spores. Don't blame the grain for your shitty techniques.


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: poisoned]
    #26568776 - 03/31/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Have you ever prepped hulled oats? Sounds like you are speaking from first hand knowledge. I haven't. Don't have access to them. I almost guarantee if you send me some I can prep them so they aren't sticky.




I think the burden of proof is on you here. I am again gladly inviting you to show me just 1 successful grow with hulled oats. There's successful grows with whole oats posted on here all the time.

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Then again I don't need a crutch like a hull to prep grains. The hull is also what makes oats a shitty grain. Makes it hard to identify contamination and also hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria.





So, do you know how to prep grains or not? Because if you do, your grains will harbour zero bacteria or spores. Don't blame the grain for your shitty techniques.






I was avoiding saying it quite like that but my thoughts are echoed in there.

:lolsy:


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: Smartattack]
    #26568779 - 03/31/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
We are not parroting anything. Its because its obvious. Cooking a pot of hulled oats is like cooking a pot of jasmine rice. What do you get once the water is absorbed? a mass of shit stuck together. With hulls in place the sticky inner meat is contained within the hull. Not sure how to make that easier to grasp.



Have you ever prepped hulled oats? Sounds like you are speaking from first hand knowledge. I haven't. Don't have access to them. I almost guarantee if you send me some I can prep them so they aren't sticky. Then again I don't need a crutch like a hull to prep grains. The hull is also what makes oats a shitty grain. Makes it hard to identify contamination and also hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria.

I removed the stuff about brf but you did bring up rice. It's is used as as spawn and has no hull even if it makes shit spawn.

It's obvious oatmeal doesn't work. Oats intact lacking a hull in theory should work just fine if you know how to prep grain.





I have not, but given that avoiding burst grain is one of the objectives in grain prep to avoid a mess i see no reason to make it more likely. Also if you are going to flex about being good at prepping grain, then you should say nothing about oats being shitty or more likely to contaminate. Many of us use them and even prefer them and don't have issues that are grain related.



Just stating facts not trying to flex on anyone here but also who are you to tell me what I should or shouldn't be saying? I'll avoid the fact that you falsely accused me of claiming that they are more likely to contaminate. You must have been confused by when I said they are harder to identify contamination on. :thumbup:


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: Smartattack]
    #26568785 - 03/31/20 10:30 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

"hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria."




You literally said that....


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: gizmo1]
    #26568791 - 03/31/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
I'll avoid the fact that you falsely accused me of claiming that they are more likely to contaminate. You must have been confused by when I said they are harder to identify contamination on.





You said it here:
Quote:

gizmo1 said:contamination and also hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria.





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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: poisoned]
    #26568805 - 03/31/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Have you ever prepped hulled oats? Sounds like you are speaking from first hand knowledge. I haven't. Don't have access to them. I almost guarantee if you send me some I can prep them so they aren't sticky.




I think the burden of proof is on you here. I am again gladly inviting you to show me just 1 successful grow with hulled oats. There's successful grows with whole oats posted on here all the time.

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Then again I don't need a crutch like a hull to prep grains. The hull is also what makes oats a shitty grain. Makes it hard to identify contamination and also hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria.





So, do you know how to prep grains or not? Because if you do, your grains will harbour zero bacteria or spores. Don't blame the grain for your shitty techniques.



Grain prep and sterilization are two separate things sorry if you are confused about that also you are assuming once again that I was defending hulled oats when I never did I am talking about grains in general I can still link you a successful wbs grow though no problem. I have no burden to prove or disprove any assumption you make. Did I say " you are wrong hulled oats 100% will work" no I said if you prep grains right they shouldn't be sticky. Yet here you are asking me for proof of a successful grow with oat groats. I hate that I really had to explain that though. Seems common sense is not so common at all.
Also so rather I can or can not prep grains makes a difference in endospore load of grains? Wow that's a whole lot of stupidity.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: Smartattack]
    #26568815 - 03/31/20 10:47 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
"hull intact grains will harbor more bacteria."




You literally said that....



They do. Pretty big jump to me staying that they are more prone to contamination. I nevet said that. They have a higher endospore load than grains without hulls. That's is all. Since what we do is not true sterilization it makes it one of those why even bother with them situations. That indeed has nothing to do with prep though. If either of you would like to discuss this further please feel free to pm me and I can clarify.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: gizmo1]
    #26568831 - 03/31/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
Did I say " you are wrong hulled oats 100% will work" no I said if you prep grains right they shouldn't be sticky. Yet here you are asking me for proof of a successful grow with oat groats.



Did you check the title of this thread? We're clearly talking about oats. And WBS that they sell here doesn't have any hulled grain, not sure what's sold as WBS elsewhere.

Quote:

gizmo1 said:
They have a higher endospore load than grains without hulls. That's is all. Since what we do is not true sterilization it makes it one of those why even bother with them situations. That indeed has nothing to do with prep though. If either of you would like to discuss this further please feel free to pm me and I can clarify.




Sorry, but for me prep is the whole way from grain to jars ready for inoculation. Anyways, I definitely do sterilise my grain. I've had some unmodified jars standing on the shelf for months and they were good as new.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: gizmo1]
    #26568833 - 03/31/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Oh c'mon man! for christ's sake. Dont pull that garb, we all use the word prep when talking about all aspects of grain work prior to inoculation.


And why are you even bringing up the endospore load if you don't mean to suggest more likely contamination? Was that just rhetoric then? If so why? You're saying on one hand it's a thing, then saying that said thing doesn't matter? I'm confused.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: Smartattack]
    #26568835 - 03/31/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Damnit poisoned. :lolsy:


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: Smartattack]
    #26568842 - 03/31/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So I have used rolled oats. It's just harder to work with some types of grains that others. I'm doing Safflower seed, it has the hull intact. No problems there.

I'm actually not even sure what the argument is above me, but OP: use what ever you want. Some oats are easier to use than others. Whole oats are the easiest. There are no grains that won't work given the right condition.


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: gizmo1]
    #26568865 - 03/31/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well this thread escalated quickly. Since the people saying hulled oats won't work haven't actually tried to prep them, I see no reason to discuss this further. I will just have to find out by myself.

Bod did indicate early in this thread that hulled oats would work, just not with his tek.... and smart said that over processed  will make them sticky, so I got that to work off of when I do my own hulled oats to prove it to you guys (whether it works or not). I will post my results here in this thread.

I wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel. I love my whole race oats. I just wanted to help OP and anyone like him (if he truly can get hulled oats cheaper and wasn't mistaken. I understand price anomalies happen sometimes in certain areas. Here in the midwest, premium gas is cheaper than regular unleaded because of all the corn grown for ethanol around here.).


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Re: What kind of whole oats [Re: One of Us] * 1
    #26568873 - 03/31/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed. My apologies for my part in escalating OP's thread into a "grainwreck"


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