|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
|
When I visited India (didn't even want to go as I have no good reason to but ended up being pressured into it) it really was interesting, there is smog all over the place that feels worse for the lungs than smoking. I can only imagine it's the same for China. The reasons for this seem to be a mix of the fact that they are generally overpopulated and also that we in the west use them to make our silly toys. It's completely horrible over there. Even the basics are hard to come by. They are going to starve by the masses I think never mind virus death toll.
Dark times indeed.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
|
|
The world is not ready for the images it is about to see let alone the reality its about to live through.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
|
dbreeze
Stranger
Registered: 06/03/19
Posts: 312
|
Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
#26564711 - 03/29/20 07:54 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: It’s not just a western thing, its by nature a global thing, being a pandemic is just that, and with the past few decades of globalization making much of the world well, global, lots of the high risk factors are now also global- granted their is a variance, but in all much more homogenized than ever in history.
Also, much of Asia has been decimated just like the west and because of much of some of the powerhouses in Asia’s have a form of government that can do things on a whim unchecked by the outside world, I fear for what happens to our brothers And sisters over there.
China has falsely reported almost close to zero % growth of the virus in terms of prev and incidences this last month, at least in official capacity. It’s quite literally impossible for the numbers reported by the Chinese government to be what they are in the last 25 days of reporting.
Literally impossible. Also, many areas have suddenly been cut off from phone and internet services, in places that had the highest rate of - dense- numbers of those who had contracted the illness. It’s incredibly worrying for those who have friends and family in there.
China's numbers may be off, but they have experience with outbreaks. South Korea had excellent response time and tested more people per capita than anyone as far as I know. Singapore has done very well with low death/infection ratio. Meanwhile Spring Break was raging in the US when everyone knew it was a problem. And the 6 foot rule? People blatantly disregard it around here. It's as if they think it's just an exercise or a dream. Buy more toilet paper! I'm sure it's being taken more seriously in major cities. When bodies start to drop here I suspect then it will be taken seriously. I'm in NC btw.
If you count the country yes NY has come out and said we have tested more per capita than china or south korea..
But ny is hit the worst something like half dead are from ny...
Personally i think its a giant hit but the US will survive. i just hope it wakes people up and are prepared another virus will happen at some point in the future and could kill far more hope we get ready
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
|
|
Quote:
pineninja said: The world will change the whole system is being exposed. A shift will come and it wont just be the states.
We either turn on each other or we dont.
Oh yes I think you are right. It would take a miracle for the world not to go into a global recession, and it's unwise to expect a miracle here. I can speak for my own country when I say that some experts are expecting unemployment to go over twenty percent in the next few months, a number not seen since the great depression. All this will indeed lead to a permanent and irreversible change, just on the economic side alone. And of course in many other respects as well.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,704
|
|
I hang onto the wish that social distancing can cause populism to collapse.
but is it only my imagining that rallies and the cheering idiocy of the maga crowd requires synchronous social gathering for reinforcement of their half baked ideas of self and other.
the crowd is not self, social distancing reminds us that self is what remains when the crowd is removed.
crowd thinking is reduced to facebook, and the digital pulpits of conservative geniuses; and these are all asynchronous. Hopefully the tiny screens will seem foolish as the reality and loneliness sets in.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.
Thoughts?
What is the empire? The federal government? Or is this something about the us gov stranglehold across the world. I hesitate to call it anything. Right now it seems more wealth is being shuffled to the top through a crony state. A backlash from everybody else in the form of leftism, anarchy? The fed has never been larger if I’m not mistaken.
If it’s just about the perception of the United States then that seems kind of pointless so long as people keep doing what they were doing before just like in the last crisis.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
|
|
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: What is the empire? The federal government? Or is this something about the us gov stranglehold across the world. I hesitate to call it anything. Right now it seems more wealth is being shuffled to the top through a crony state. A backlash from everybody else in the form of leftism, anarchy? The fed has never been larger if I’m not mistaken.
If it’s just about the perception of the United States then that seems kind of pointless so long as people keep doing what they were doing before just like in the last crisis.
Well, the U.S. maintains around 800 military bases in more than 70 countries abroad, that after closing down several hundred bases in Iraq and Afghanistan recently. We have directly meddled in the political affairs of several nations, such as Cuba, Chile, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Libya, Israel-Palestine, and many others. This is to say nothing of our economic meddling in a host of other nations.
If that's not imperial behavior, I don't know what to tell you.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
|
|
But why is this the end of what you mentioned ?
|
pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
|
|
Because people are going to see behind the curtain.
Just a little.dude with a megaphone scaring the shot outta people.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
|
|
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: But why is this the end of what you mentioned ?
Because I think the U.S. has completely lost its edge, I think our culture and society and economy have unraveled to the point that they will never fully recover from this pandemic crisis. It won't happen overnight, but I think this is a historical turning point representing the end of the preeminence of the U.S.A.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Because I think the U.S. has completely lost its edge, I think our culture and society and economy have unraveled to the point that they will never fully recover from this pandemic crisis. It won't happen overnight, but I think this is a historical turning point representing the end of the preeminence of the U.S.A.
Evidently our society is held together by a massive military complex. No reason the fed and crooked politicians can’t keep that game up with printing more money and deficit spending.
Plus, where is the counter punch in all this, our self proclaimed revolutionary has been trying to run through the crooked establishment itself. Add in the fact that the United States seems like an unlikely collage of 6 different countries vying for a similar interpretation.
Edited by Yellow Pants (03/29/20 02:52 PM)
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
|
Once the rampant abuses come to light that are being done in the name of the national emergency, in spite of the threat of the pandemic being legitimate, people will not let that go like other abuses.
It will play out over the year.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Once the rampant abuses come to light that are being done in the name of the national emergency, in spite of the threat of the pandemic being legitimate, people will not let that go like other abuses.
It will play out over the year.
Feel like there will be nothing short of 100 different interpretations about what went wrong, how to fix it etc. The west coast will say this, the northeast that, and then you have the south. There won’t be a consensus and the crony establishment will continue until I don’t know when..
Other countries are going to have to call the feds bluff and push back militarily. Just my two cents.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
|
Other countries will take advantage of the chaos, see opportunity, which is a smart move in a sense, but hell ya know. They’re wont be much consensus, i agree. I can only wax poetic as to interpreting such a debacle, what i say when critiquing a massive system such as ours is largely ignorant as fuck and should be ignored . I’ll wait for the educated and experienced to make an articulated response and then do my best to choose. IM to damn busy to be a patriot, I just live in America, but I’m not American. Me soy earth boi.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (03/29/20 03:09 PM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,704
|
|
The Russians are coming.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
|
|
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Evidently our society is held together by a massive military complex. No reason the fed and crooked politicians can’t keep that game up with printing more money and deficit spending.
Plus, where is the counter punch in all this, our self proclaimed revolutionary has been trying to run through the crooked establishment itself. Add in the fact that the United States seems like an unlikely collage of 6 different countries vying for a similar interpretation.
Like I said, it won't happen overnight. But the U.S. has been in a steady decline for about forty years. Since Reagan. This is well established by a number of social commentators in a million books. The military is not really relevant, other than it's a geopolitical prong we've had up several countries' asses for decades, and most of them don't care for it. In that sense and others, we act imperially, one could describe it as a kind of empire. Economically, too.
Printing more money, and deficit spending, will ruin the economy in the not-so-long-term. That is a huge part of it as well. Now that we'll be going into a recession or depression, we're pretty exposed. The "middle class" will have very little buying power after all this.
I don't know what you mean by your second comment, but Trump, if you look at history, is easily the worst (and possibly least intelligent) president this nation has ever had. George W. Bush held that title until 2017. I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. But I don't think the U.S. will ever fully recover from all this.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,247
|
|
I understand wanting something good to come out of something bad, but there are no good outcomes here. More paranoia, more authoritarianism, more xenophobia, more infringement on personal liberty. I'm not talking the USA, I'm talking countries the world over. I understand the USA isn't an angel but if it were to collapse China would love it. World stability will vanish. Regional conflicts will flare up. And if it has a significant impact on international trade, high unemployment rates will be the least of the American's problem.
The best we can hope for is for things to get somewhat back to normal as soon as possible.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
|
Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz] 1
#26565568 - 03/29/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rahz said: I understand wanting something good to come out of something bad, but there are no good outcomes here. More paranoia, more authoritarianism, more xenophobia, more infringement on personal liberty. I'm not talking the USA, I'm talking countries the world over. I understand the USA isn't an angel but if it were to collapse China would love it. World stability will vanish. Regional conflicts will flare up. And if it has a significant impact on international trade, high unemployment rates will be the least of the American's problem.
The best we can hope for is for things to get somewhat back to normal as soon as possible.
I entirely agree. I'm pessimistic, because it seems, as bad as things are now, that we're still essentially in the early phases. But yes, getting back to normal, to what we had two months ago, would be a lot better than several alternatives that might, and very possibly will, take place.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Evidently our society is held together by a massive military complex. No reason the fed and crooked politicians can’t keep that game up with printing more money and deficit spending.
Plus, where is the counter punch in all this, our self proclaimed revolutionary has been trying to run through the crooked establishment itself. Add in the fact that the United States seems like an unlikely collage of 6 different countries vying for a similar interpretation.
Like I said, it won't happen overnight. But the U.S. has been in a steady decline for about forty years. Since Reagan. This is well established by a number of social commentators in a million books. The military is not really relevant, other than it's a geopolitical prong we've had up several countries' asses for decades, and most of them don't care for it. In that sense and others, we act imperially, one could describe it as a kind of empire. Economically, too.
Printing more money, and deficit spending, will ruin the economy in the not-so-long-term. That is a huge part of it as well. Now that we'll be going into a recession or depression, we're pretty exposed. The "middle class" will have very little buying power after all this.
I don't know what you mean by your second comment, but Trump, if you look at history, is easily the worst (and possibly least intelligent) president this nation has ever had. George W. Bush held that title until 2017. I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. But I don't think the U.S. will ever fully recover from all this.
Well I assume if the empires ending then you’d want a plan B. Otherwise more of the same by default. Once things re stabilize and all that. A crippled middle class with a detached and massive military complex going rogue over the world. Somebody should call that bluff. Evidently it’s not going to be domestic in which case it will be foreign.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
|
|
Well, now you're getting into hypotheticals. All I'm attempting to do is diagnose the problem. Who the hell knows what's going to happen. Not I.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
|