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Offlinelostintimenspc
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8 circuits of consciousness...
    #26564107 - 03/28/20 08:20 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Everything you're doing is survival.

Your friendships, your intellect, your bank account obviously.

Just sit for a moment. Are you afraid to die? Are you happy to die?

Accept you are happy to die:

is your brain still forming elaborate survival strategies?

The "modern era" is just a complex and elaborate survival strategy, a collective one.

When you understand this, you get high. You get ecstatic.

The reason that while high on LSD or psilocybin mushrooms you feel so free is because:

you're not stuck in the survival circuit!

That's it. That's what a high is!

Hallucinations and flowing hallucinations etc. well that's something else more likely to be explained by this "neurological" and "biochemical" model of the "brain".

What if the whole reality can be a hallucination? So you're not seeing elves - you're in elf land.

They call it "meta-programming." Choosing realities.

Only your strongly conditioned and reward-reinforced rational cognitive structure that helps you survive that has been built up over 500 years of rationalism rejects that you can choose realities, because it doesn't sound very conducive to survival.

And it's not!

While on drugs you might do some ridiculous things in another reality, well while high and not on a "biochemical compound" you do not, you act "just like everyone else" (survival strategy). So that strategy is in place.

Wake up people! We're just surviving! None of this modern world is particularly amazing.

What's amazing is what happens if you go upwards of the 4th circuit.

Good day! :smile:


--------------------
After hours alone in the supernal bliss of the Reality, Reality no longer becomes something you rely upon. Instead, Reality becomes something you have to contend with, and not just in waves of unalloyed happiness, but as visionary states of the whole that are a factor above the concept of lucidity.


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InvisibleIgadi
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26564120 - 03/28/20 08:27 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

tl;dr


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26564122 - 03/28/20 08:29 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

:lamastare:

When you take psychedelics you feel free because you recognize your inherent freedom.  But beyond that your reality changes in interesting ways that have little if anything to do with what society wants.  It's not escaping one sort of limitation, it's escaping all sorts of limitations.

Besides you can short circuit all the BS while perfectly sober with meditation, and again it's nothing to do with society or "rationalism" (whatever that is), it's just penetrating to the substrate of consciousness where the boundaries don't exist.

Other than that, good post and welcome shroomery!  :cookiemonster:


--------------------

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OfflineWolfenstein
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26564128 - 03/28/20 08:33 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

If y'all haven't done so already, I HIGHLY suggest Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson.

OP; I'm assuming you're quoting either that or Tim Oleary maybe? Interested as to how you came upon this type of thinking


--------------------
Anything and everything  I say, write, and/or imply is purely false and is only done so with the intent to enhance my acting career.

Molon Labe

As above, so below


Edited by Wolfenstein (03/28/20 08:36 PM)


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OfflineInfiniteDreams
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: Wolfenstein] * 1
    #26564187 - 03/28/20 08:58 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

RIP RAW... damn just read everything that man wrote


--------------------
One quirky, cliched phrase.


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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: Wolfenstein]
    #26564199 - 03/28/20 09:08 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

If you believe you need psychedelics to be free or to think or feel differently , then they have just become another prison.
If you believe you need anything to do the aforementioned to be free or yourself or be a better person , even meditation, then even that becomes just another delusion, another dualistic concept constructed by the freedom we primordially have.

I see this kind of matrix of belief so often than I can only suppose some like the game/delusion/illusion of having to find something to be free.

The Whole “your either asleep or awake” and before I was asleep and unconscious and now I’m awake and conscious”
Or the whole “ before I was ignorant” and not I’m “enlightened”

Those all seem very myopic ways of viewing the world and life and, well any and everything.

They seem delusive ways of thinking.  Easy to fall under their spell, yet thinking one is any different to another in some fundamental way.

Everyone dreams in their life,  psychedelics are similar in nature to dreaming, so everyone’s tripped in a sense wether they realize it or not, some do it awake others when sleeping.    Psychedelics are not the instrument of enlightenment, that is our natural dispensation, and with that by extension is natural freedom, with which we can even dream the appearance of a delusive sleep where we dream we are not free or naturally enlightened, so in a sense setting ourselves up for the game of duality or non duality.  When in reality, reality is beyond, way beyond anything we can say with words.

If you were Far apart from all deluded views,  then were would you be?


--------------------
The actuality of all experience is like a dream
and in its momentary groundless gleaming,
undeniably perceptible, it is uncrystallizing light-form,
a deceitful flash, a diaphanous form of emptiness.
Yet delving deeply we find neither truth nor falsehood,
for neither present nor absent, it is beyond all conception;
we know it like the sky, inexpressible, unimaginable,
fundamentally ever fresh and pristine.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26564306 - 03/28/20 10:44 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Nah, there's no "believing you need meditation" for instance, because meditation is liberating, and the liberation is permanent - no "belief" is required only the practice itself.

Believing you need something - anything - to become free is a mistake as you observe, but this is nothing more than what Buddhism doctrine illustrates - you are already inherently free from the beginning.  Realizing it can be challenging due to the large number of mental prison systems that want to enslave you in their particular form of bondage.  Psychedelics definitely can help you realize it, and though they may be like dreaming they are something well beyond that.

The dualism that you entertain in this paragraph

Quote:

Psychedelics are not the instrument of enlightenment, that is our natural dispensation, and with that by extension is natural freedom, with which we can even dream the appearance of a delusive sleep where we dream we are not free or naturally enlightened, so in a sense setting ourselves up for the game of duality or non duality.  When in reality, reality is beyond, way beyond anything we can say with words.





is a perfect example.  Anytime one tries to explain the distinction the distinction is immediately lost.  Meditation and psychedelics cut through the duality by removing it experentially, not by logic or discursive thought.  :cookiemonster:


--------------------

endless source, endless river - river of no shape, river of no water - drifting invisibly from place to place
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OfflineBooShow
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26564309 - 03/28/20 10:52 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Nah, there's no "believing you need meditation" for instance, because meditation is liberating, and the liberation is permanent - no "belief" is required only the practice itself.

Believing you need something - anything - to become free is a mistake as you observe, but this is nothing more than what Buddhism doctrine illustrates - you are already inherently free from the beginning.  Realizing it can be challenging due to the large number of mental prison systems that want to enslave you in their particular form of bondage.  Psychedelics definitely can help you realize it, and though they may be like dreaming they are something well beyond that.

The dualism that you entertain in this paragraph

Quote:

Psychedelics are not the instrument of enlightenment, that is our natural dispensation, and with that by extension is natural freedom, with which we can even dream the appearance of a delusive sleep where we dream we are not free or naturally enlightened, so in a sense setting ourselves up for the game of duality or non duality.  When in reality, reality is beyond, way beyond anything we can say with words.





is a perfect example.  Anytime one tries to explain the distinction the distinction is immediately lost.  Meditation and psychedelics cut through the duality by removing it experentially, not by logic or discursive thought.  :cookiemonster:



:justastonishing::mindblown:


--------------------
You are what is. That's all.


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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: BooShow]
    #26564355 - 03/28/20 11:58 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Language is inherently dualistic, I’ll point out that my own posts cannot escape it, neither have yours, however , it can be known through.
My point is not to get stuck in a game of dualism vs nondualism as reality is beyond such distinctions.

Psychedelics and meditation may induce a foretaste of the primordial nature of the mind, however, being attached to mystical experiences by contrasting the to our everyday experience is a reneg on the majesty of pure experience - regardless of the state, it’s the clear mirror like light of awareness that remains regardless of how experience differs or stays the same.

Meditation or non meditation
Psychedelic experience  or ordinary experience

All is utterly beyond, neither one or the other is above or below the rest, however without the appearance of heterogeneity , homogeneity cannot be realize and vice verse, hence the law of the unity of opposites, hence the value in altering ones perception , hence the value in substances that can perform such a feat.  But, to lose sight of the natural perfection for an imagined sub space simulacrum of reality is simply a self imposed limiter on oneself, enforced by no more than ones own psyche through its own faculty.


--------------------
The actuality of all experience is like a dream
and in its momentary groundless gleaming,
undeniably perceptible, it is uncrystallizing light-form,
a deceitful flash, a diaphanous form of emptiness.
Yet delving deeply we find neither truth nor falsehood,
for neither present nor absent, it is beyond all conception;
we know it like the sky, inexpressible, unimaginable,
fundamentally ever fresh and pristine.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26565057 - 03/29/20 11:03 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

the Leary premise is propaganda, and PrimalSoup's consideration that meditative liberation is permanent is also propaganda.

the circuits are not 8, or 108, or any particular number, because any associative circuit (loop) in mind is 100% associative.

things are learned together, what happened together, what happened in the same place, what happened in the same color etc. all these things become linked, and when perceived engage associative linkage to what previously was learned together.

This is great except when the dish runs away with the spoon, and the little dog laughs …

the value of mindfulness (awareness of breathing etc.), temporarily, enables relief from chains of reflex thinking. this can give you perspective, and healing calm in the daily storms. AND it can allow psychedelic to unfold astonishing beauty instead of just intensifying inner turmoil.


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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26565137 - 03/29/20 11:37 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Despite common perception of mindfulness as much of what’s claimed on this forum, it’s poor translation from various Indian dialects by the Christian monastic community into something that had a different sin na quan than the original-

Mindfulness is actually the faculty of mind that allows one to remember. Ie. Memory. Short and long term being fully sharpened and not dull.

It is not a meditation in itself, but it can be cultivated/strengthened or through lake of care- diminished in capacity or even destroyed.But still it is a faculty of mind, which allows one to train ones attention upon an object, and remember to keep it there when it invariably moves due to conditioned responses from the senses, impulses, consciousness, ie. Your trying to concentrate on merely reflecting the actual condition of your breath as it really is- but you get an impulse from nerves on your face near the nose- bringing the finest point of our attention to drag to the location that is itching on your nose- we are conditioned to do so- yet with practice - via the faculty of mindfulness- we remember our original task, and so without delay retrain our concentration to the object of meditation. 

Over time with persistence of retraining and dragging the fine point back to the breath, conditioning becomes unraveled, and the next nerve impulse from the body that shoots through the quantum field of consciousness or ones own mind- suddenly does not take with it the fine point of concentrated attention to that is reflecting the breath.  It’s only when this occurs, and becomes second nature, can one even begin to have more than a few seconds of uninterrupted concentration on the breath.  And that’s really just step 2 or 3 of anapanasati meditation, it’s a precursor to the actual goal of meditation, but in itself can be calming or grounding, sure, amongst many other things  As well.
Mind you an itch isn’t all one is up against, it’s the whole of conditioned sensory experience - inner and outer worlds so to speak, if you wanna think of it like that, that within them mind , when in deep concentration are actually like innumerable number of lighting bolts going of every nanosecond, and as one approaches and attains a singular concentrated attention on the opactual object of meditation, the actual sensation of sensor impulses becomes something akin to. Wavelike-particle of singular sense impression-this is another faculty of mind- ekkagatata, or single mindedness.  When all the concomitant of mind are placed evenly and equally upon the scale of the object of meditation so to speak, in a supporting synergistic way, giving the minds shape a rectified quality that allows the pieces of the mosaic to act as a whole.  This allows for one to come into range of Apana samadhi.

Still not the end, but just a step in the actual goal of meditation , it goes on for a bit like that.  Anywho. 

On another note, Redgreenvines’ discernment is enough to know meditation itself is still anicca, or transient/ temporary, and the states which we perceive ourselves to go through by meditation, are also temporary.  This was also a teaching of the Buddha of sakya.  In fact, meditation as taught throughout the scriptures of the Mahayana and vajri, and hini vehicles/schools are all known to know this, they may produce “consciousness changing” like a drug.. especially is one is practiced in the jannas, but they specifically were used to be able to create a mental realm where certain hinderances that are usually with us are not allowed to exist temporarily, allowing the practitioner to use such states to more attentively , via the negation of much naturally occurring mental and bodily, worldly, and karmic distractions to temporarily cease- so as to give on a special conducive space/state from which to exam the true nature of all phenomena.- that is the actual goal of meditation , the timeless goal.

And how can that be done if one cannot simply observe one of their own life sustaining bodily functions for more than a few seconds or minutes?  Imagine if you could uninterruptedly watch a oak tree grown from seed to maturity and its whole life span without blinking or moving or having a thought or any swaying from the object of meditation , the tree.  The insight would be tempered by a quality unknown to most,  compared to one who does the same as the above, but has to work, has a wife, studies, needs to go to the bathroom multiple times a day, cook food and eat, etc etc and the whole mass of the home life,  the quality of this persons mediation on the tree as reflecting the actual nature of the phenomena would be full of potholes, interrupted over and over, not seamless, scattered, fixed, all over the place.  I hope that illustrates my meaning, forgive my typing it’s ona kpcrummy ipad.

Also any theory positing anything of mans dimension of the “absent yet apparent” of experience, cannot be said to be this or that totally, rather renderings of individuals experience within the range of ineffable experience and extraordinary experience is translated via metaphorical, analogous, allegorical means.  Hence why one man like Leary can say it s “ the 8 fold circuit oath or whatever”

Or the historical Buddha can say “ it’s the 4 fold truth and the 8 fold path”

Or . So on and so forth in this aforementioned manner.

People may rely on another’s instructions, till they find the source of such stories not to be outside themselves, they can use such fictions to navigate the known and unknown parts of themselves until they exceed the original map or teaching or truth that has been guiding them, but that doesn’t make them true, rather it makes them usueful, skillful means of conveying the ineffable in a way that can reach another through concentration, wisdom, and morality.


Edited by The Blind Ass (03/29/20 12:16 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26565191 - 03/29/20 12:10 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Well yes, it's all samsara - until it's not.  :laugh2:

The teachings about temporary nature of all states, included awareness, serve to point you at an underlying aspect of nature and mind.  How you get there is immaterial. :shrug:


--------------------

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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26565214 - 03/29/20 12:29 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Samsara and nirvana taught in the beginners way is dualistic for a purpose, it serves a skillful purpose to those who need to understand such in life in such a way, at least at first.
Yet continuing on the path, in higher teachings, ie. The abdhidamma and in the vaj schools, their are teachings of theory and experimental practices so induce the primordial state of mind anything that arises, samsara or nirvana, all is the appearance of maha ati.

And so it’s full circle,  both the relative and absolute views are complementary for any stage of development, both feeding the individual regardless of which viewpoint they take, best serving oneself when each is synergized. 

The conventional truth and view is indispensable when navigating the workings of what is known as “normal life”, where would we be without it?  And the ineffable absolute truth and view is beyond any dualistic conceptions, but is also indispensable to feeding all parts of life, not to meantion they are displayed through various symbolic measures,  ie. Yin and yang.

But ,  that’s way ahead of things in one way, in another it’s not, and is always here and now , undying, uncreated, etc etc all those fancy poetic renderings.

But to know for oneself is certainly something that is nothing special after one does indeed known, beforehand it seems to be special.  Yet it’s not, because non lack it.

The technical teachings on the beginning steps to meditation are by far the most fruitful thing I’ve ever learned, it was akin to earning a degree by going to college , and its practice and cultivation is like a career that my heart loves to work and play at.

On these forums I often see those who just want to skip to the end , so to speak.  However, without the development of concentration, morality, and wisdom.... I see that those who reach for the secret too soon are akin to someone paying a pilot to take them on a helicopter ride to the top of mount obaku,  seeing a view from atop for sure, but gaining nothing of substance from the journey- often with delusive views of having known secret workings of things, which too their loving neibhhors seem to have actually become less noble.

But the man who goes through with the trip to the top of the mountain on his own, by virtue of having done so, and coming back down to join the community again, is by virtue not enlightened by what was seen at the top, but rather what was lived through.  The true man without rank, went in and out the face, whether going or returning he cannot be anyplace else, forever at home yet always on the way.

My experience when samsarically known to me, has informed me just as much as my tiny encounters with nirvana release, but they inform one another , without which I would be a man with poor morals, Meger concentration, and false wisdom.  I have spent much more time in samsara, a myopic coloring of my experience, the in nirvana - when taken in measurings of classical time, however by knowing the secret praxis of maha ati , it’s much like having a good dream or a nightmare- both can be learned from- and regardless of its classification in the mind, it is simply dream through and through.


--------------------
The actuality of all experience is like a dream
and in its momentary groundless gleaming,
undeniably perceptible, it is uncrystallizing light-form,
a deceitful flash, a diaphanous form of emptiness.
Yet delving deeply we find neither truth nor falsehood,
for neither present nor absent, it is beyond all conception;
we know it like the sky, inexpressible, unimaginable,
fundamentally ever fresh and pristine.


Edited by The Blind Ass (03/29/20 12:39 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26565242 - 03/29/20 12:43 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

businessmen they drink my wine / plowmen dig my earth :snoopyes:


--------------------

endless source, endless river - river of no shape, river of no water - drifting invisibly from place to place
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineThe Blind AssS
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Re: 8 circuits of consciousness... [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26565247 - 03/29/20 12:44 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

[:smile:


--------------------
The actuality of all experience is like a dream
and in its momentary groundless gleaming,
undeniably perceptible, it is uncrystallizing light-form,
a deceitful flash, a diaphanous form of emptiness.
Yet delving deeply we find neither truth nor falsehood,
for neither present nor absent, it is beyond all conception;
we know it like the sky, inexpressible, unimaginable,
fundamentally ever fresh and pristine.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience

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