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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it?
#26565022 - 03/29/20 10:43 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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one specific example of a message that needs to be communicated is Long-time nuclear waste warning messages summarized in the below video:
have you ever tried to read any work of Shakespeare in the Old English translation? i find it pretty difficult, and usually have to read a sentence several times, before i can get what i believe is the gist of it. if this was only 400 years ago, imagine how different language/communication will be in 1,000...4,100, or 10,000 years.
in the case of nuclear waste warning message, the recommendation is the placement of large symbolic signs and the creation of a myth and legend in an attempt to preserve the knowledge of grave danger.
Quote:
In Europe, the warning models rely mostly on integrating the waste disposal facilities within society so information about their presence can be passed on from generation to generation.
Linguist Thomas Sebeok, building on earlier work by Alvin Weinberg and Arsen Darnay and working as part of the Human Interference Task Force, proposed the creation of an atomic priesthood, a panel of experts comparable to the Catholic church, which has preserved and authorized its message for almost 2000 years. The priesthood would preserve the knowledge of radioactive waste's locations and dangers through rituals and myths.
French author Françoise Bastide and Italian semiotician Paolo Fabbri proposed that domestic cats be genetically engineered to change color in the presence of dangerous levels of radiation. The significance of these "radiation cats" or "ray cats" would be reinforced through fairy tales and myths, the story being that one should move away from sites where such creatures are encountered, or where domesticated cats begin to exhibit such behaviour. (from wikipedia link at top of this post)
did any ancient-past-humans try to send us a warning from tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago?
if so, what would they want to warn us about?
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redgreenvines
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26565100 - 03/29/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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just be clear and honest about keeping records so that HISTORY can be the message to the future.
future beings do not want us to try to exercise control over their lives, so just keep it simple and honest.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26565491 - 03/29/20 02:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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keeping records of history is one thing, but what about preserving knowledge?
i don't think communicating across thousands of years is as simple as leaving a message after the beep.
most likely the cultures that exist today will be long gone in 10,000 years.
don't you think the languages that are spoken today will be incomprehensible in the future?
how many Sanskrit speakers do you know?
let's say that, in some future, the only historical documents that survive were written in Sami, a language with only 300 native speakers. in 10,000 years do you think there will be people fluent in Sami to interpret their historical documents?
in the case of the nuclear waste sites, do we hope that contorted faces will convey the right message?

this is an interesting way to convey a message:
Quote:
Another on the team, a Polish science fiction author, proposed engineering 'information plants' that would contain information about the dangers and location of radioactive waste coded into their DNA. He also suggested a network of artificial satellites transmitting this same data to Earth.
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redgreenvines
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26565545 - 03/29/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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books are a great idea, especially books in multiple languages, especially books that can withstand the ravages of time. the books should be full of truths, about what happened. the message is one of striving and imperfection.

The radioactive symbol for nuclear waste should be a sufficient marker, but really we should not be leaving nuclear waste for our descendants to deal with.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26566728 - 03/30/20 08:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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if humans have difficulty communicating a message across a room, occupying the same time, while speaking in the same language, then how are they going to have success in clearly communicating that message across 10,000 years?
in 10,000 years a radioactive hazard symbol could be a symbol for world peace.
and the nuclear waste is already here, and it's going to be sticking around for a long ass time.
Quote:
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx 
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laughingdog
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26571598 - 04/01/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Considering CRISPR technology, in the event we survive our follies as a species, it is questionable, whether future 'humans' will even be the same species.
The advantage of science fiction over religion, is that although both are fantasy, one expands the mind by exploring multiple imaginative possibilities, while the other attempts to constrict the mind to old worn out ruts, reduce flexibility, and essentially turn an individual into a clone.
If the OP's question interests one, HG Wells Time Machine, explores one of many possibilities.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26572375 - 04/02/20 12:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'd develop an idea till it was flawless and could be left stable on its own merits. To push the rock that starts the landslide
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: sudly] 1
#26572679 - 04/02/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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you should find a good hill then
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Kickle
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26572861 - 04/02/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'd rather the future convey messages back to us. Because right now I'm not sure there is a future 'us' and it would be a bit of a relief to see something from the future
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: Kickle] 1
#26572948 - 04/02/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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I see, since our descendants have sent no messages back to us, they obviously do not exist, all are doomed. except, time travel is imaginary, and it is just us who lack imagination to see they are already here.
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Kickle
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26572959 - 04/02/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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No. I thought we were playing a hypothetical desire game so I said mine.
The wisdom from the past usually doesn't pan out as expected IMO so it seems mostly guesswork with regards to what will stick
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: Kickle] 1
#26573092 - 04/02/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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really enjoying how your avatar got Hokusai so stoned that Ganesh is dancing in the waves.
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Kickle
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26573128 - 04/02/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Looked more accurate to me
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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R.I.P.Zappa
Myco Melyco


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines] 2
#26573154 - 04/02/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Whos to say our ancestors didn't already warn us but others turned it into corrupted fan fiction and religion?
I'd carve our story in stone to stand the test of time but the amnesia filled arrogance of humanity would probably prevail as it does now.
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought- -"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".- -When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".- -If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.- psychonautwiki.org How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek. Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
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laughingdog
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: R.I.P.Zappa] 1
#26573200 - 04/02/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do we understand the pyramids? Or know how they were built?
Nope. They really are don't seem at all like the tombs in the valley of the kings, etc. If they are not tombs, what are they? We don't know how much ancient stone work was done.
Seem to me this might be relevant.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26574399 - 04/03/20 01:59 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: you should find a good hill then
Aye; there sits a large one atop.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: sudly] 1
#26574401 - 04/03/20 02:01 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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You wouldn't see the moon without the Sun
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: sudly] 1
#26574995 - 04/03/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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you going to roll a moon? I'd prefer some tits.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26576969 - 04/04/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just trying to see if pulleys work.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: laughingdog]
#26579560 - 04/05/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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there's almost no way that in the future, if i find a message communicated to me, that i will attribute to the words or symbols communicated in the message, the meanings that they were intended to bear. what if instead of words or symbols the message was in frequencies.
maybe in our ancient past our ancestors knew that they could not communicate with language, so they communicated with things like sound/resonance/frequency. there are theories that the pyramids of ancient Egypt could have been some kind of sound resonance device/chamber. resonance technologies appear to exist in many ancient artifacts and architectures. we know that sound frequencies can alter brain activity. if ancient cultures had a superior understanding to ours as to how sound can alter states of consciousness, then maybe they used these sound chambers to communicate. compared to words, frequencies are more likely to be understood in the intended way, as a sound can then have its own meaning.
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redgreenvines
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26579795 - 04/05/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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after eating god, the frequencies of the burp will be pretty low
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27033270 - 11/11/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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i need to make sure to send the future the rgv picture dictionary!
the future may depend on this cipher!
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#27035268 - 11/12/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Probably just mushroom stamp some concrete before it hardens.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: teknix]
#27036449 - 11/13/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Repeat the facts, and slap the shit out of silly ideas.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: teknix]
#27037088 - 11/13/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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how will the future interpret the meaning of a mushroom stamp?
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laughingdog
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#27042263 - 11/16/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well Buddhism has lasted thousands of years (although some varieties / sects, clearly miss the original intent), and it has most definitely not saved the world.
Interestingly in a much shorter time frame ( hundreds of years) language, has changed so much, we can barely understand it. . Think Shakespeare' plays and even earlier Beowulf - which seems very weird.
"Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum, þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum, monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,....
Ancient Egypt remain to a large degree still a mysterious culture, as do the construction methods, of much ancient stone work.
Perhaps HG Wells in The Time Machine, best conveys the impossibility of long term having any control over the future. Buddha and Euclid seem to have pushed the limits of what can be done. Of course they both actually had something worthwhile to communicate.
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Northerner
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: laughingdog]
#27043742 - 11/17/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: books are a great idea, especially books in multiple languages, especially books that can withstand the ravages of time. the books should be full of truths, about what happened. the message is one of striving and imperfection.

The radioactive symbol for nuclear waste should be a sufficient marker, but really we should not be leaving nuclear waste for our descendants to deal with.
There's over a million tonnes of nuclear waste in existence now. Even though nuclear energy is being decommissioned as renewables are starting to gain traction the problem remains. This crap is going to be highly toxic for many many thousands of years.
Our civilization will be long gone and any symbol that has meaning to us will be arbitrary scribbling to a rising civilization in the distant future. Their symbol for danger could be a box with an X in it, or any other idea that was come up with at the time. Symbols after all aren't usually meaningful, just symbolic.
I read recently about some island off Sweden where they are burying spent nuclear fuel rods in special tunnels half a kilometre underground in billion year old granite. The stuff they are burying will be toxic to humans for 100,000 years. They struggled to come up with a way to warn future humans not to dig the stuff up. It turns out that a large percentage of people in the world today don't know what the radiation symbol means, that it's highly improbable that anyone will know its meaning after 5000 years. All sorts of other ideas were suggested too. Warning stones carved out of granite was one. But when they looked at the ancient tsunami markers in Japan that warned not to build below where the stone markers are there was once again whole villages below that point, which to little surprise got washed away. Even the idea of creating folklore as a long standing warning was suggested. But that would be like a big red button that says "DO NOT PUSH" on it. You know what is going to happen to that button.
After much ado they just decided to cover the thing over. Security through obscurity. The island is uninteresting and remote. There's no minerals of interest and no reason to dig further than a hole to light a fire in, let alone excavate tunnels going half a kilometre underground.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
Edited by Northerner (11/17/20 12:08 PM)
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laughingdog
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: Northerner]
#27043796 - 11/17/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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. You're giving a lot of thought to one possible future problem, out of hundreds. Humans obviously have continually demonstrated no real ability to plan anything with real foresight. So personally I fail to see why just because a problem seems bigger, the results of attempting to deal with it should be any different.
. Objectively we all already know, its all out of control. That humans compound the problem by building nuclear power plants on earthquake fault lines, starting wars, polluting entire oceans and creating or accelerating global warming can either be seen as a surreal tragedy, or just another aspect of the ordered chaos that collides entire galaxies 'randomly' over eons in the vastness of space.
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#27044724 - 11/18/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Be careful with big media.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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CableTV
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#27044728 - 11/18/20 12:23 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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keep a record of everything if possible. Besides your personal life
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laughingdog
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: CableTV]
#27044764 - 11/18/20 01:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of course the question presumes a good outcome as regards Global Warming, which quite possibly, is totally unwarranted.
And history tells us Global Warming was already warned against decades ago with increasing frequency, and yet again the question presumes people listen, to messages from the past.
Perhaps all we learn from this is that generally no one listens, or pays close attention, to anything they don't want to know, or hear, or see.
Considering this: Why indulge in exaggerating one's importance by composing messages to a supposed future?
Edited by laughingdog (11/18/20 02:29 AM)
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Northerner
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: laughingdog]
#27044779 - 11/18/20 01:44 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or choosing not to compose messages... but hiding our shit so well that we'll never find it.
Global warming could catapult us into another ice age that would eliminate most of us. We could be climbing out of the ice a mere 10 or 20 thousand years later. Some of the waste we are creating now could poison those new seeds of life. I think that would be a far greater insult to our planet than simply speeding up the current cycle as we are now.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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redgreenvines
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#27044910 - 11/18/20 06:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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photography is good - lots of photography - the medium is the message.
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27045211 - 11/18/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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redgreenvines and I are communitated messages to future humans
some of our ideas are messages for future humans
for the future
you must arrive at a place where your ideas are general outlines for the garden and living life
steering
things that assist you in steering
and that mean something to it
milestones
idea milestones
indicators
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: Ferdinando]
#27045221 - 11/18/20 10:04 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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when you come up with something useful sometimes you have to share it for the future so it is kept like buddhism otherwise what some ideas are important to preserve it was like that and it is like that you dont have to be special to come up with that some ideas are just so good that the have to be preserved lots of us write the internet in a way that if that idea was not there it wouldn't be preserved
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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laughingdog
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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: Ferdinando]
#27045958 - 11/18/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferdinando said: ... have to be preserved...
Hi Ferdinando,
IMO:
nothing either has to be preserved
or can be preserved forever
Of course we all like to believe the world has far more stability than it does, as it feels comforting, but that doesn't make it so. I prefer needing a little less comfort, and if possible being a little more awake.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: if you wanted to convey a message to future humans how would you do it? [Re: laughingdog]
#27046018 - 11/18/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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that make sense, more awake than what?
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