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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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End of Empire * 1
    #26564078 - 03/28/20 07:56 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564083 - 03/28/20 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

One thing you guys have going for you is low population density, Maybe you'll get a lucky break in all of this and it won't hit you so hard.

If you do get hit hard though I have very little faith in your government to support it's people financially or in terms of healthcare needs.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Offlinebw86
Doesn't play well with others

Registered: 11/12/06
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Loc: 7b
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564125 - 03/28/20 08:31 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

meh...we are all gonna pretend everything is fine a a few weeks.
It probably will be.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564141 - 03/28/20 08:36 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

I do find it ironic that the “great beast” or “evil” that may finally take down the mighty American empire a good few notches is,in all actuality, a microscopic creature like thing, ie. A virus.

The USSR and the Red Scare and all of that jazz from decades past that instilled fear in the mind of so many of my country men can’t really compare to the potential and actual damage currently being done.

On another note, I do hope we come out of this the better, dying or being debilitated by a virus like this one is horrible.  Living with reduced lung function is another kind of hell, and over half the adult population in the US is either, and in all combined up to half of us, either have diabetes, coronary heart disease, hypertension, and respiratory illnesses, and that’s just the adults. 

That group is considered high risk when infected due to their conditions, and seeing as the virus has a roughly 10% mortality rate in the total numbers so far accounted for ( mostly meaning only those who have been tested in hospitals and a few other means) the number crunching ive done is huge.  It came to about 2,750,000 people in the us dying - if the current rate of infection continues and a few others things remain the same.  Seeing as my calculation did not include a few crucial changes in some of the variables over time, I can only hope it won’t be worse , I hope I’m a fool and very wrong, but in 6 months to a  years time we will finally have a clue.

Until then, I hope the Us and the rest of the world hangs on, fights for what’s good p,a and stays well and safe as best one can.
I am afraid for much of my atomic and extended family , at least the few who have a heart condition or something else or are 65+y.o.
But what’s almost equally disturbing is knowing the abuses that will take place in big business and government and military during the duration of this pandemic.  It’s easy to get away with a lot when freedoms are suppressed (for better or worse) , and unimaginable emergency powers are granted to higher government and military officials. 

I’m lucky, my family is lucky in all the right ways, but I know that’s the exception in these cases.  This virus will change much of the world, this I know .


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 08:42 PM)

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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564147 - 03/28/20 08:38 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

I'm not thinking most of Europe is fairing any better. It seems to be a Western mindset of being above it all, along with the frequency of international travel. I finally saw someone besides me wearing a mask today.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26564169 - 03/28/20 08:47 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

It’s not just a western thing,  its by nature a global thing, being a pandemic is just that, and with the past few decades of globalization making much of the world well, global, lots of the high risk factors are now also global- granted their is a variance, but in all much more homogenized than ever in history.

Also, much of Asia  has been decimated just like the west and because of much of some of the powerhouses in Asia’s have a form of government that can do things on a whim unchecked by the outside world, I fear for what happens to our brothers And sisters over there.

China has falsely reported almost close to zero % growth of the virus in terms of prev and incidences this last month, at least in official capacity.  It’s quite literally impossible for the numbers reported by the Chinese government to be what they are in the last 25 days of reporting.

Literally impossible.  Also, many areas have suddenly been cut off from phone and internet services, in places that had the highest rate of - dense- numbers of those who had contracted the illness.  It’s incredibly worrying for those who have friends and family in there.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 08:50 PM)

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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,256
Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564198 - 03/28/20 09:06 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?




I think the health system will collapse and masks will come off when the bodies start piling up on the streets, especially if Easter Sunday services where held in churches across the US.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564209 - 03/28/20 09:14 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
One thing you guys have going for you is low population density, Maybe you'll get a lucky break in all of this and it won't hit you so hard.

If you do get hit hard though I have very little faith in your government to support it's people financially or in terms of healthcare needs.





The reason our official population density is so low is: everything west of the Mississippi River except California. However, like all modern countries, all of our cities -- large, medium and small -- are interconnected by airports and highways, so most of the population is indeed vulnerable. I think we'll be hit pretty hard.

I don't have any faith in our system's capabilities, either. Economically, politically, medically, sociologically, etc., our vulnerabilities are, well, now becoming very obvious. If we come out of this thing in one piece, I hope at least that the general public will not settle for business as usual. But then, my fellow Americans have disappointed me before, repeatedly.

In any case, there won't be much anyone can do if we go into a depression or deep recession, which seems inevitable at this point, possibly for the whole world. It's an unprecedented time.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564211 - 03/28/20 09:19 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
It’s not just a western thing,  its by nature a global thing, being a pandemic is just that, and with the past few decades of globalization making much of the world well, global, lots of the high risk factors are now also global- granted their is a variance, but in all much more homogenized than ever in history.

Also, much of Asia  has been decimated just like the west and because of much of some of the powerhouses in Asia’s have a form of government that can do things on a whim unchecked by the outside world, I fear for what happens to our brothers And sisters over there.

China has falsely reported almost close to zero % growth of the virus in terms of prev and incidences this last month, at least in official capacity.  It’s quite literally impossible for the numbers reported by the Chinese government to be what they are in the last 25 days of reporting.

Literally impossible.  Also, many areas have suddenly been cut off from phone and internet services, in places that had the highest rate of - dense- numbers of those who had contracted the illness.  It’s incredibly worrying for those who have friends and family in there.




China's numbers may be off, but they have experience with outbreaks. South Korea had excellent response time and tested more people per capita than anyone as far as I know. Singapore has done very well with low death/infection ratio. Meanwhile Spring Break was raging in the US when everyone knew it was a problem. And the 6 foot rule? People blatantly disregard it around here. It's as if they think it's just an exercise or a dream. Buy more toilet paper! I'm sure it's being taken more seriously in major cities. When bodies start to drop here I suspect then it will be taken seriously. I'm in NC btw.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26564220 - 03/28/20 09:30 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

I’m in Nc too ( in the triangle) , but you seem to parrot very vague generalizations about our entire country.
Spring break going wild..got it, but do you truly believe the rest of the world simply shut themselves inside and stopped their normal lives immediately upon news of the virus? We are referring to people, all of the same species.  The difference is not as big as is supposed.
Countries that had the experience, ability, and infrastructure and materials set up in hold before the outbreak naturally responded more properly. 

Korea’s own gov and economy are largely based on the US, however they are quite an efficient producer in materials that are needed globally, not to mention their proximity to countries that are mass manufacturers for much of the rest of the world- thus giving them easier access to materials , support, and a mor salient alarm of what was taking place in the outbreaks beginning. 

Korea has a fraction of the Us population, but their resources are spread much more evenly than the us.

I think I know hat your saying, but I just need remind you of the hundred plus countries that also have portions of the population that did not heed an early morning.  Globalization is the biggest culprit, tons of countries are interdependent on each other in so many ways- those lines of connection are structural and functional and the main culprit .

The us has had experience as well with diseases, never think it hasn’t.

Btw, were you at in NC?


Also, idiotic politicians downplayed the virus in our country before the president declared an official state of national emergency, until then a large portion of the pop went about normally, even my sister who’s in her 30#flew to New Orleans for her friend’s bachelorette party like an idiot.- even though both our parents are doctors, myself study in research, and another sibling in med school.

Think that has more to do with IQ


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 09:35 PM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564228 - 03/28/20 09:37 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Maybe I’ve been to isolated over the years and in doing so have overestimated my countrymen’s general intelligence,  maybe your right.  But still .


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564235 - 03/28/20 09:42 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Maybe I'm being unfair and it's just the level of international travel but the US and Europe are getting the worst of it, it seems. I'm about an hour North of Charlotte.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26564278 - 03/28/20 10:13 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

All good Rahz, fellow Carolinian.  Our family cringed when my sis insisted on going to n.orleans for a party,  it that was a couple of days before trump declared the pandemic a national emergency , so by the time she was there and the party in full swing,  it was just a matter of riding it out , meanwhile, the day before she left nc, she came by my parents place (were I went to ride things out) and my mother was cancelling her flight to Mexico, a trip she had planned 6 months in advance to see her old classmates from college ( that whole get together thing 30-40 years later after graduation thing people do).  So I suppose it is a mix.

My bros med school is cancelled thus far,
And half my classes were cancelled (mostly sciences requiring the use of a lab daily), and the other half are now online, but even the on line ones are screwy because the profs had little experience setting up the software required to do so, so right now it’s really chaotic.
My rents still work, and since I’m in the tri I do to, hospitals and nursing homes mainly.  So far about 4 people have gotten sick enough to were they needed testing in the homes, but since the state hasn’t given us adequate testing equipment the best we can do is use multiple tests to rule out Covid-19,  luckily those 4 were pos for a specific flu strain. Our current tests cannot see if they have it, we can only test to be moderately sure they don’t...how fucked is that? We got emails saying we’d have testing capability literally 28 days ago , and nothing yet...
Better be here this week , because in wake county alone we have 200 tested positive for covid, and those are only because they were critically ill and in a major hospital that they were able to be tested specifically for the virus.  We definitely do not even have 25,000 tests in the whole of NC...fact.  And look at its pop, and we’re e a pretty wealthy area of the country.  I would estimate less than 10,000k tests,( more like a  few thousand) much less.
Hats why were all on lock down, because if it spreads incredibly without even knowing the reality of the rate we could seriously crippple ourselves for the next couple decades.

I fear the corporate big wigs and politicians most, their power grew massively when things ere declared a state of emergency.  One email we got was about a hospital on the west coast, their stockholders did not approve of the physicians and nps and emts, pa’s, and others wearing mask at all times while walking through the halls and while seeing certain patients....why?  Because in terms of optics , the holders felt it reflected that the hospital was dangerous, and thus would cause anxiety to paying patients ( their customers)...

Thing is, people use resp and surgical masks all the time in the hospital, to avoid smells, to avoid disease, to not spread it as well..
But at the time when its most logical to use one, it literally gets banned?!  The staff was going insane, almost started a riot... cause
If they don’t protect themselves, who the hell will treat and run the hospital and take care of the sick and dying? Especially if the sick and dying become sick and dying from the virus or become vectors for it (those with mild symptoms or asymptomatic yet still carry a virulent load that’s still transmissible )...  so,  I really hope that kind of idiotic “bottom line.- dollar” type of thinking is not legally effable / binding during this time, because we need everyone who is actually able to , to do all they can (professionals in medicine).

And for gods sake, we need actual fucking tests,  we can’t even begin to get an accurate account of the prevalence rate and incident rate of the virus in or population or the world,because the fucking tests are not made yet.  They are sparse , mostly major general hospitals have them only, or if your very wealthy with connections or just have connections or are military base.

The proposed number of cases in the us and the world are not actual reflections on real amount of total infected, in fact, it’s fraction.

If we magically had every human tested overnight, the numbers would reflect a monstrous increase.

So please, make sure you have food, water, and money, medicines and equipment and other things needed for atlleast a few months.

Regulated against bacterial and viral pathogens masks and gloves etc.

Mark my words, unless the world is stupidly and profoundly lucky, this will last the rest of the year-

The US does not shut down major businesses and basically its economy on a whim, or a lie, this is a pandemic, it’s fucking serious people......I’ll say that much for now


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 10:22 PM)

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Invisiblepineninja
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Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564317 - 03/28/20 11:05 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?




The world will change the whole system is being exposed.
A shift will come and it wont just be the states.

We either turn on each other or we dont.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Invisiblecez
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26564326 - 03/28/20 11:16 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?



Official end says you. 

Which country is handling this situation gracefully?

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Invisiblecez
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564338 - 03/28/20 11:36 PM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
One thing you guys have going for you is low population density, Maybe you'll get a lucky break in all of this and it won't hit you so hard.

If you do get hit hard though I have very little faith in your government to support it's people financially or in terms of healthcare needs.





The reason our official population density is so low is: everything west of the Mississippi River except California. However, like all modern countries, all of our cities -- large, medium and small -- are interconnected by airports and highways, so most of the population is indeed vulnerable. I think we'll be hit pretty hard.

I don't have any faith in our system's capabilities, either. Economically, politically, medically, sociologically, etc., our vulnerabilities are, well, now becoming very obvious. If we come out of this thing in one piece, I hope at least that the general public will not settle for business as usual. But then, my fellow Americans have disappointed me before, repeatedly.

In any case, there won't be much anyone can do if we go into a depression or deep recession, which seems inevitable at this point, possibly for the whole world. It's an unprecedented time.




“Not settle for business as usual.”  What should we do instead comrade? 

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OfflineCountHTML
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Registered: 06/24/18
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Re: End of Empire [Re: cez] * 1
    #26564403 - 03/29/20 12:50 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

US is falling. There may be hope for it but I think this would require re-consolidation around a new model. The biggest issue it ran into was too many vested interests with incentives against progress in an environment with very high stakes. The "gated institutional narrative" as Weinstein calls it is collapsing--traditional media, academia, etcetera. The mirage of the 50s, 60s, that sense of interminable growth has met its end and the charade is up at this point.

What's coming next? Sense-making seems irreparably damaged. Even in the midst of the pandemic there is partisan bickering and dogmatic support for the incumbent regardless of how he handles/mishandles the situation. Under sufficient stress or duress, rational thinking is supplanted by just a mess of conspiratorial, dogmatic or superstitious thinking depending on personal inclination. These things signal the end of a civilization's life cycle. It eats itself from within. Invaders are merely opportunists.

Self-terminating system. It is certainly not pleasurable to watch the American experiment erode like this. I think many Americans take it for granted, the material ease and relatively good quality of life (unless you're one of the growing number of paupers). There is hope something may emerge on the other side but it won't be the same as before.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: CountHTML] * 1
    #26564418 - 03/29/20 01:26 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

CountHTML said:
US is falling. There may be hope for it but I think this would require re-consolidation around a new model. The biggest issue it ran into was too many vested interests with incentives against progress in an environment with very high stakes. The "gated institutional narrative" as Weinstein calls it is collapsing--traditional media, academia, etcetera. The mirage of the 50s, 60s, that sense of interminable growth has met its end and the charade is up at this point.

What's coming next? Sense-making seems irreparably damaged. Even in the midst of the pandemic there is partisan bickering and dogmatic support for the incumbent regardless of how he handles/mishandles the situation. Under sufficient stress or duress, rational thinking is supplanted by just a mess of conspiratorial, dogmatic or superstitious thinking depending on personal inclination. These things signal the end of a civilization's life cycle. It eats itself from within. Invaders are merely opportunists.

Self-terminating system. It is certainly not pleasurable to watch the American experiment erode like this. I think many Americans take it for granted, the material ease and relatively good quality of life (unless you're one of the growing number of paupers). There is hope something may emerge on the other side but it won't be the same as before.




A concise, yet prescient voice on the times at hand for the US.  It will evolve-  but not with ease, the old guard will go down fighting all the way, what comes from its ashes nobody knows, but evolution begets adaptation to actual circumstances and conditions, so there is good to come from this.  This much is so.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/29/20 01:28 AM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564420 - 03/29/20 01:27 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Damn, I could plant that quote on city hall.  :micdrop:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26564485 - 03/29/20 03:48 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Here in the UK seems to me like mostly everyone is self isolating and following the 2m rule now, listening to government advice even in my small town. There are queues for the supermarkets and people are being asked to buy only what they need. We don't have masks or enough testing kits to go around yet but our government seems to be trying to get them on the ground.

We don't have huge industry here so many are able to work from home. Workers who can't are being promised 80% pay and the self employed are getting something although there is a continual debate over how much they should get and in what form. This has come in spite of the fact that our government is currently conservative.

It's all very up in the air as to what's really going on and how long this will take to blow over. No one really knows anything for sure it seems. So we are playing it by ear and for the most part following government advice. As people have said this is the first crisis of this kind to hit the UK so the confusion over how to act in the face of it is understandable.

India is going to be absolutely ravaged by the virus as far as I can tell, they are packed in like sardines and largely homeless. Hopefully despite the death toll the country will come out the better for it. As that place would really be a bad place to come from these days.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564490 - 03/29/20 04:01 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

When I visited India (didn't even want to go as I have no good reason to but ended up being pressured into it) it really was interesting, there is smog all over the place that feels worse for the lungs than smoking. I can only imagine it's the same for China. The reasons for this seem to be a mix of the fact that they are generally overpopulated and also that we in the west use them to make our silly toys. It's completely horrible over there. Even the basics are hard to come by. They are going to starve by the masses I think never mind virus death toll.

Dark times indeed.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit] * 1
    #26564555 - 03/29/20 05:50 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

The world is not ready for the images it is about to see let alone the reality its about to live through.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Invisibledbreeze
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26564711 - 03/29/20 07:54 AM (4 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
It’s not just a western thing,  its by nature a global thing, being a pandemic is just that, and with the past few decades of globalization making much of the world well, global, lots of the high risk factors are now also global- granted their is a variance, but in all much more homogenized than ever in history.

Also, much of Asia  has been decimated just like the west and because of much of some of the powerhouses in Asia’s have a form of government that can do things on a whim unchecked by the outside world, I fear for what happens to our brothers And sisters over there.

China has falsely reported almost close to zero % growth of the virus in terms of prev and incidences this last month, at least in official capacity.  It’s quite literally impossible for the numbers reported by the Chinese government to be what they are in the last 25 days of reporting.

Literally impossible.  Also, many areas have suddenly been cut off from phone and internet services, in places that had the highest rate of - dense- numbers of those who had contracted the illness.  It’s incredibly worrying for those who have friends and family in there.




China's numbers may be off, but they have experience with outbreaks. South Korea had excellent response time and tested more people per capita than anyone as far as I know. Singapore has done very well with low death/infection ratio. Meanwhile Spring Break was raging in the US when everyone knew it was a problem. And the 6 foot rule? People blatantly disregard it around here. It's as if they think it's just an exercise or a dream. Buy more toilet paper! I'm sure it's being taken more seriously in major cities. When bodies start to drop here I suspect then it will be taken seriously. I'm in NC btw.




If you count the country yes NY has come out and said we have tested more per capita than china or south korea..

But ny is hit the worst something like half dead are from ny...

Personally i think its a giant hit but the US will survive. i just hope it wakes people up and are prepared another virus will happen at some point in the future and could kill far more hope we get ready

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Re: End of Empire [Re: pineninja]
    #26564866 - 03/29/20 09:24 AM (4 years, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
The world will change the whole system is being exposed.
A shift will come and it wont just be the states.

We either turn on each other or we dont.





Oh yes I think you are right. It would take a miracle for the world not to go into a global recession, and it's unwise to expect a miracle here. I can speak for my own country when I say that some experts are expecting unemployment to go over twenty percent in the next few months, a number not seen since the great depression. All this will indeed lead to a permanent and irreversible change, just on the economic side alone. And of course in many other respects as well.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #26565080 - 03/29/20 11:12 AM (4 years, 21 hours ago)

I hang onto the wish that social distancing can cause populism to collapse.

but is it only my imagining that rallies and the cheering idiocy of the maga crowd requires synchronous social gathering for reinforcement of their half baked ideas of self and other.

the crowd is not self, social distancing reminds us that self is what remains when the crowd is removed.

crowd thinking is reduced to facebook, and the digital pulpits of conservative geniuses; and these are all asynchronous.
Hopefully the tiny screens will seem foolish as the reality and loneliness sets in.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26565368 - 03/29/20 02:04 PM (4 years, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?




What is the empire?  The federal government?  Or is this something about the us gov stranglehold across the world.  I hesitate to call it anything.  Right now it seems more wealth is being shuffled to the top through a crony state.  A backlash from everybody else in the form of leftism, anarchy?  The fed has never been larger if I’m not mistaken.

If it’s just about the perception of the United States then that seems kind of pointless so long as people keep doing what they were doing before just like in the last crisis.:shrug:

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants] * 2
    #26565413 - 03/29/20 02:26 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
What is the empire?  The federal government?  Or is this something about the us gov stranglehold across the world.  I hesitate to call it anything.  Right now it seems more wealth is being shuffled to the top through a crony state.  A backlash from everybody else in the form of leftism, anarchy?  The fed has never been larger if I’m not mistaken.

If it’s just about the perception of the United States then that seems kind of pointless so long as people keep doing what they were doing before just like in the last crisis.:shrug:





Well, the U.S. maintains around 800 military bases in more than 70 countries abroad, that after closing down several hundred bases in Iraq and Afghanistan recently. We have directly meddled in the political affairs of several nations, such as Cuba, Chile, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Libya, Israel-Palestine, and many others. This is to say nothing of our economic meddling in a host of other nations.

If that's not imperial behavior, I don't know what to tell you.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26565423 - 03/29/20 02:31 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

But why is this the end of what you mentioned ?

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26565429 - 03/29/20 02:34 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Because people are going to see behind the curtain.

Just a little.dude with a megaphone scaring the shot outta people.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26565442 - 03/29/20 02:38 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
But why is this the end of what you mentioned ?





Because I think the U.S. has completely lost its edge, I think our culture and society and economy have unraveled to the point that they will never fully recover from this pandemic crisis. It won't happen overnight, but I think this is a historical turning point representing the end of the preeminence of the U.S.A.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26565464 - 03/29/20 02:48 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Because I think the U.S. has completely lost its edge, I think our culture and society and economy have unraveled to the point that they will never fully recover from this pandemic crisis. It won't happen overnight, but I think this is a historical turning point representing the end of the preeminence of the U.S.A.




Evidently our society is held together by a massive military complex.  No reason the fed and crooked politicians can’t keep that game up with printing more money and deficit spending.

Plus, where is the counter punch in all this, our self proclaimed revolutionary has been trying to run through the crooked establishment itself.  Add in the fact that the United States seems like an unlikely collage of 6 different countries vying for a similar interpretation. 

Edited by Yellow Pants (03/29/20 02:52 PM)

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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26565472 - 03/29/20 02:50 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Once the rampant abuses come to light that are being done in the name of the national emergency, in spite of the threat of the pandemic being legitimate, people will not let that go like other abuses.

It will play out over the year.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26565509 - 03/29/20 03:02 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Once the rampant abuses come to light that are being done in the name of the national emergency, in spite of the threat of the pandemic being legitimate, people will not let that go like other abuses.

It will play out over the year.




Feel like there will be nothing short of 100 different interpretations about what went wrong, how to fix it etc.  The west coast will say this, the northeast that, and then you have the south.  There won’t be a consensus and the crony establishment will continue until I don’t know when..

Other countries are going to have to call the feds bluff and push back militarily.  Just my two cents.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26565520 - 03/29/20 03:08 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Other countries will take advantage of the chaos, see opportunity, which is a smart move in a sense, but hell ya know.  They’re wont be much consensus, i agree.  I can only wax poetic as to interpreting such a debacle, what i say when critiquing a massive system such as ours is largely ignorant as fuck and should be ignored :shrug:.  I’ll wait for the educated and experienced to make an articulated response and then do my best to choose.  IM to damn busy to be a patriot, I just live in America, but I’m not American. Me soy earth boi.:jimmies:


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Edited by The Blind Ass (03/29/20 03:09 PM)

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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26565550 - 03/29/20 03:21 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

The Russians are coming.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26565553 - 03/29/20 03:21 PM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Evidently our society is held together by a massive military complex.  No reason the fed and crooked politicians can’t keep that game up with printing more money and deficit spending.

Plus, where is the counter punch in all this, our self proclaimed revolutionary has been trying to run through the crooked establishment itself.  Add in the fact that the United States seems like an unlikely collage of 6 different countries vying for a similar interpretation. 





Like I said, it won't happen overnight. But the U.S. has been in a steady decline for about forty years. Since Reagan. This is well established by a number of social commentators in a million books. The military is not really relevant, other than it's a geopolitical prong we've had up several countries' asses for decades, and most of them don't care for it. In that sense and others, we act imperially, one could describe it as a kind of empire. Economically, too.

Printing more money, and deficit spending, will ruin the economy in the not-so-long-term. That is a huge part of it as well. Now that we'll be going into a recession or depression, we're pretty exposed. The "middle class" will have very little buying power after all this.

I don't know what you mean by your second comment, but Trump, if you look at history, is easily the worst (and possibly least intelligent) president this nation has ever had. George W. Bush held that title until 2017. I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. But I don't think the U.S. will ever fully recover from all this.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26565560 - 03/29/20 03:25 PM (4 years, 16 hours ago)

I understand wanting something good to come out of something bad, but there are no good outcomes here. More paranoia, more authoritarianism, more xenophobia, more infringement on personal liberty. I'm not talking the USA, I'm talking countries the world over. I understand the USA isn't an angel but if it were to collapse China would love it. World stability will vanish. Regional conflicts will flare up. And if it has a significant impact on international trade, high unemployment rates will be the least of the American's problem.

The best we can hope for is for things to get somewhat back to normal as soon as possible.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26565568 - 03/29/20 03:28 PM (4 years, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I understand wanting something good to come out of something bad, but there are no good outcomes here. More paranoia, more authoritarianism, more xenophobia, more infringement on personal liberty. I'm not talking the USA, I'm talking countries the world over. I understand the USA isn't an angel but if it were to collapse China would love it. World stability will vanish. Regional conflicts will flare up. And if it has a significant impact on international trade, high unemployment rates will be the least of the American's problem.

The best we can hope for is for things to get somewhat back to normal as soon as possible.





I entirely agree. I'm pessimistic, because it seems, as bad as things are now, that we're still essentially in the early phases. But yes, getting back to normal, to what we had two months ago, would be a lot better than several alternatives that might, and very possibly will, take place.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26565616 - 03/29/20 03:54 PM (4 years, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Evidently our society is held together by a massive military complex.  No reason the fed and crooked politicians can’t keep that game up with printing more money and deficit spending.

Plus, where is the counter punch in all this, our self proclaimed revolutionary has been trying to run through the crooked establishment itself.  Add in the fact that the United States seems like an unlikely collage of 6 different countries vying for a similar interpretation. 





Like I said, it won't happen overnight. But the U.S. has been in a steady decline for about forty years. Since Reagan. This is well established by a number of social commentators in a million books. The military is not really relevant, other than it's a geopolitical prong we've had up several countries' asses for decades, and most of them don't care for it. In that sense and others, we act imperially, one could describe it as a kind of empire. Economically, too.

Printing more money, and deficit spending, will ruin the economy in the not-so-long-term. That is a huge part of it as well. Now that we'll be going into a recession or depression, we're pretty exposed. The "middle class" will have very little buying power after all this.

I don't know what you mean by your second comment, but Trump, if you look at history, is easily the worst (and possibly least intelligent) president this nation has ever had. George W. Bush held that title until 2017. I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. But I don't think the U.S. will ever fully recover from all this.





Well I assume if the empires ending then you’d want a plan B.  Otherwise more of the same by default.  Once things re stabilize and all that.  A crippled middle class with a detached and massive military complex going rogue over the world.  Somebody should call that bluff.  Evidently it’s not going to be domestic in which case it will be foreign. :shrug:

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26565631 - 03/29/20 04:03 PM (4 years, 16 hours ago)

Well, now you're getting into hypotheticals. All I'm attempting to do is diagnose the problem. Who the hell knows what's going to happen. Not I.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26565640 - 03/29/20 04:08 PM (4 years, 16 hours ago)

so south korea huh?

learn from who does it right


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26565673 - 03/29/20 04:33 PM (4 years, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Well, now you're getting into hypotheticals. All I'm attempting to do is diagnose the problem. Who the hell knows what's going to happen. Not I.




Uh, there was a bug, people got fearful and shut business down?

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26565690 - 03/29/20 04:50 PM (4 years, 15 hours ago)

.    It is possible we enter some sort of dark ages. It depends on how much technology gets shut down, especially those that are very hard to start up again. Or even impossible to start up again.
.    Especially if it depends upon intricate supply chains in different countries and depends upon experts, that have either died, or moved (left no forwarding address).
.    For instance cell phones use precious metals that are very scarce, & some come from places like Africa.
.  How large are ship crews on container ships? What happens if some crew members come down with covid-19 a few days after leaving port?
.  Just a few examples, I really do not have the expertise to judge the extent of the issue, but I do have enough imagination to realize it could be another ignored elephant in the room.

.  This is on another level than just economic depression. When new computers and chips are no longer designed and built, and so on, then the foundations of what we have come to consider civilization, will be very vulnerable ...  much of "brave New World" & "1984" came true -- now we will see if even more dystopian Science fiction has been a good predictor.

Edited by laughingdog (03/29/20 04:55 PM)

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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26565791 - 03/29/20 05:41 PM (4 years, 14 hours ago)

Not the cellphones

:fatfear:

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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26565998 - 03/29/20 08:11 PM (4 years, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
I understand wanting something good to come out of something bad, but there are no good outcomes here. More paranoia, more authoritarianism, more xenophobia, more infringement on personal liberty. I'm not talking the USA, I'm talking countries the world over. I understand the USA isn't an angel but if it were to collapse China would love it. World stability will vanish. Regional conflicts will flare up. And if it has a significant impact on international trade, high unemployment rates will be the least of the American's problem.

The best we can hope for is for things to get somewhat back to normal as soon as possible.





I entirely agree. I'm pessimistic, because it seems, as bad as things are now, that we're still essentially in the early phases. But yes, getting back to normal, to what we had two months ago, would be a lot better than several alternatives that might, and very possibly will, take place.




It remains to be seen how things will pan out or how long work is restricted to essential services, but people will be talking about the response for years. I expect there's a lag in shipped goods from China. Being the case, they have things running again but there will be a period of weeks before those boats get here. China is running again. I suspect America will get back to work as well. The media will hype it and make it seem as bad as possible as long as possible and it may be a while before the deaths peter out but life will go on.

Lots of people lost money in stocks. The national debt just went up trillions. Knowing Americans, there will be a plethora of N95 masks tucked away if there's a next time. We'll be handing out masks like candy to those who don't have them. M3 will make billions and Chinese factories will jump in on the trend and make money too. If the inflation rate increases we can blame that on the coronavirus and it's response.

A lot of people will experience economic relief in the absence of toilet paper on their grocery list for a few months, or years. :haha:

I wouldn't say a major breakdown of the system is likely, but the obviously apparent results aren't good. I'm not sure about the likelyhood of worse scenarios but that's because it's difficult to estimate the capacity of humans for ignorance and bad behavior, along with the potential of the disease at this point. There are still millions at work doing essential services so we'll see how bad "normal" life really is in a few weeks and be in a better place to determine when to lift work restrictions.

But when it's over, somehow, somewhere there will be permanent reductions in individual liberty. There will be higher taxes. There will be an unemployment issue that may take years to work out, but old business will open and new businesses will start. So we'll get past it, but it will likely/hopefully only be a bump in this system. It's an episode in a fatalistic story, but there will still be time for real solutions to avoid nature taking it's course.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26566058 - 03/29/20 09:06 PM (4 years, 11 hours ago)

.  A lot of answers depend, on testing, to determine actual rates of infection & transmission & death.
.  And tests let us know who to quarantine. Other than perhaps China & south Korea, test kits & testing remain inadequate, in many places.
.  And a lot depends upon whether hospitals can handle places where infection has not yet peaked; and that includes both having still healthy, health care workers & supplies.
.  Compliance with distancing, what is happening in Russia & Africa, also remain unknowns.
.  Seems too early to draw final conclusions with any hope of accuracy. Short term it gets worse.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26566066 - 03/29/20 09:11 PM (4 years, 11 hours ago)

Well you make good points Rahz. But I would say that the economy is taking a huge hit, which will have lasting effects. After all, Trump wouldn't be so obsessed with getting everyone back to work if he weren't taking a huge hit himself. Obviously, we see this in the huge overall losses in the stock market. But what that means of course is that money has ceased to flow, and that has happened because tens of millions have put their work on hold (many of whom have already been laid off). So, while millions of essential workers are still working, in a major way huge sectors of the economy are just frozen.

And such a hit will not simply be erased when the crisis is over. It will lead to a slowdown, which will lead to a recession, very probably a global one. With luck it will not be a full-blown depression, but as I have said it's still early, and who knows what will happen over the next months. In any case, I have seen many experts saying there could well be an unemployment rate in the U.S. of 20-25% when all is said and done, and that is a gigantic problem for the people and for the economy, for all of society. Whatever happens, it seems clear there will be very long-lasting changes as a result of this, if not many permanent ones.

So, for me, what has already happened by today is a major blow to the economy. As I have said before, we are still only in the early stages of this. So clearly, the economic picture grows more dire by the day. Notwithstanding the virus itself, I think global markets are descending into a big problem for the whole planet.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26566091 - 03/29/20 09:32 PM (4 years, 10 hours ago)

There is a few people making a shit ton of cash on forex and the like atm.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: pineninja]
    #26566097 - 03/29/20 09:36 PM (4 years, 10 hours ago)

Well obscene paper speculation goes back aways.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26566281 - 03/30/20 12:18 AM (4 years, 8 hours ago)

Good point QD, my brother and I were discussing the implications of the feds adding money to the wold economy printing money for sure, but more so than that, simply adding it on a computer screen, it’s like they’re not even trying to hide the fact.

The reason for such great concern over the viruses aren’t simply because it can potentially decimate the world population (decimate meaning 10%) , an thats estimation on my part, don’t know if it could potentially be more liberal or conservative, hopefully the latter though,
But because of how it effects the man made systems of a largely globalized world.  The economy being a major factor that in its own right, through inadvertent consequences brought about by trying to manage a pandemic, it can easily change the current course of history- hell it already has.  But in cases like this, of global crisis, it’s really the unknown factors that come into play after the ball, or mechanisms of things have started going , that we begin to realize the extent of the damage done.

Some who know me think my reaction of great concern with a tinge of healthy fear is simply “negative” thinking, I tend to wish they were correct; however, this  urgent scenario will test things beyond their limits of their structure and function, and in bio-chem, that only ever means one thing,  chaos and breakdown and ensuing change until a more adapted iteration of the previous systems that everything in our worlds man made systems are interfaced into.

Woke up in a cold sweat panting tonight, after seeing my brain play out my fears with an extended version of the consequences insuing.

The virus, the ensuing managment effort and the corruption around and within it, unemployment at a new level, the loss of a couple or few millions of peoples who we really loved us, The staggering and unplayable growing debt, natural disasters - fires, hurricanes, flooding, tornadoes, drought, famine, other illnesses, and public and private malcontempt and a general sense of unease and global and neighborly isolationism brought about by the combo of the above (all things that happen in a regular yearly earth cycle). 

The stress those yearly factors will play  throughout the rest of 2020 can utterly stress a system to its max and beyond, breaking what little illusory control people think is in place, and take for granted.

When I woke up, what frightened me most was seeing that more now than ever, there is, as always the ability to become enchanted by the chaos and indifference , jumping in with the mire of those who want it all to burn or have no hope...

It struck me sober, that if I can’t bring myself to be a force for, and an leading example of morality, concentration,and wisdom -  doing no evil, and doing all the good as is demanded by my own heart, and cleansing of my mind,  than how much more so would it be hard for my neighbors, my shroomerites, and the rest of the world?

We need , and I will be more more conscientious of m thoughts, and speech, and actions- using compassion, patience, and equanimity , our inherent powers, for good during my brief transit here on earth, to stay the path no matter how long it seems to be.

Now more than ever, yet as always, is the classical ideals and life of goodness of the Christian saint, and Buddhist bodhisattva needed.

A noble life, or a life beset by our own worst parts of our nature made manifest.  You choose, I’ll go with the former, and I’ll wake, live, and sleep with peace of heart.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26568510 - 03/31/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The economy i think is taking a huge hit and it will get worse. But its not going to be the end of America. it just aint cause at the end of the day most Americans are proud of their country and will come together and build things back up. People will be hurting and the govt. probilly wont be able to get everyone back to work right away but people arent going to give up on America for this. I am one that sees positives and negitives on the whole system but if you asked me i am proud of america mostly because of the everyday average person. Americans will come togather after this is all over. some things will change yes some things wont. Personally there are things in the system that i dont like but honestly i dont know how things could change fairly quickly without having lots of destruction and thats the LAST thing i want is more destruction after this is over. and like i said the PEOPLE will come togather and build things back up....i am one that agrees back to normal as quick as possible is the best thing to hope for cause this situation SUCKS! the system will still be there all though there will be some changes but at the end of the day the people running the system wether you like it or not are symbols of the country. Maybe not here but i think most americans would agree on that and will fight and do what ever to keep the country running

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Re: End of Empire [Re: dbreeze] * 2
    #26568900 - 03/31/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

maybe the economy will turn into a different form of economy.

i.e. the money valuation will stop being a bottom line but will become a curve that can be used in conjunction with other socially worthy curves such as environmental impact, emotional impact, healthful impact, creative impact etc.

Using ai we should be able to map these kinds of contributions and blend them with traditional wealth curves to generate a more meaningful eco-ciety.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26568973 - 03/31/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
maybe the economy will turn into a different form of economy.

i.e. the money valuation will stop being a bottom line but will become a curve that can be used in conjunction with other socially worthy curves such as environmental impact, emotional impact, healthful impact, creative impact etc.

Using ai we should be able to map these kinds of contributions and blend them with traditional wealth curves to generate a more meaningful eco-ciety.




Well said. "There are no problems, only solutions." As it is said.

One way to look shows all black, but that is a mental disease infinitely worse than any virus. That view is concomitant with other negative views (such as heaping negativity towards anyone talking about depression), or equal defeatest views.
I.e. such a blackened view will say such pessimism any time and place. Rendering them worthless from any logical point of view. As mentioned, a far worse disease.

When the sunlight of reality is seen, strengths and weaknesses are equally clear. Positive qualities are clear, and places needing strengthening are clear. Neither is seen improperly, and thus action is made effective. I.e. anything weakness is built up properly.

If the self is never transcended, if love is never perceived, then clarity will never be possible.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26569236 - 03/31/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
maybe the economy will turn into a different form of economy.

i.e. the money valuation will stop being a bottom line but will become a curve that can be used in conjunction with other socially worthy curves such as environmental impact, emotional impact, healthful impact, creative impact etc.

Using ai we should be able to map these kinds of contributions and blend them with traditional wealth curves to generate a more meaningful eco-ciety.




Seems like wishful thinking. Those things are more likely to be considered when life is good.

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Well you make good points Rahz. But I would say that the economy is taking a huge hit, which will have lasting effects. After all, Trump wouldn't be so obsessed with getting everyone back to work if he weren't taking a huge hit himself. Obviously, we see this in the huge overall losses in the stock market. But what that means of course is that money has ceased to flow, and that has happened because tens of millions have put their work on hold (many of whom have already been laid off). So, while millions of essential workers are still working, in a major way huge sectors of the economy are just frozen.

And such a hit will not simply be erased when the crisis is over. It will lead to a slowdown, which will lead to a recession, very probably a global one. With luck it will not be a full-blown depression, but as I have said it's still early, and who knows what will happen over the next months. In any case, I have seen many experts saying there could well be an unemployment rate in the U.S. of 20-25% when all is said and done, and that is a gigantic problem for the people and for the economy, for all of society. Whatever happens, it seems clear there will be very long-lasting changes as a result of this, if not many permanent ones.

So, for me, what has already happened by today is a major blow to the economy. As I have said before, we are still only in the early stages of this. So clearly, the economic picture grows more dire by the day. Notwithstanding the virus itself, I think global markets are descending into a big problem for the whole planet.




Some states have already ordered the lockdown in place til mid May. Things like that are starting to lean my opinion towards a breakdown. The CDC is "seriously considering" telling people to wear masks now. It was only a week ago they were telling people they weren't necessary! I mentioned last week the 6 foot rule indoors wasn't sufficient and now there's an MIT study suggesting the proper safe distance is 26 feet. They kind of contradict themselves when they state in the next breath that the virus can stay in the air for hours. It's capable of traveling a lot more than 26 feet if that's the case. We need a couple billion masks distributed ASAP and need to get people back to work ASAP or the major blow you're talking about will seem like small potatoes. There's still time to iron this out, but politics and bleeding hearts and fear seem to be ruling the day.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26569305 - 03/31/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, things aren't looking good. I had heard about the potential mask requirement -- I guess it's gotten beyond merely a recommendation at this point. Which begs the question: How is everyone going to get masks? And if you don't have one, can you really not go out in public, period? It seems an impossible requirement. If I need groceries, but have had no way of getting a mask, what do I do?


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26569382 - 03/31/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:


....I mentioned last week the 6 foot rule indoors wasn't sufficient and now there's an MIT study suggesting the proper safe distance is 26 feet. They kind of contradict themselves when they state in the next breath that the virus can stay in the air for hours. It's capable of traveling a lot more than 26 feet if that's the case. We need a couple billion masks distributed ASAP and need to get people back to work ASAP or the major blow you're talking about will seem like small potatoes. There's still time to iron this out, but politics and bleeding hearts and fear seem to be ruling the day.




.  And the distance assumes the air is still -- often not the case--especially outside ...

.  There is much that is still being avoided, in public discourse ... (as I'm a boomer and was about 20 around 1966 at the hight of the 60s ... I am now at an age, where death would no longer be an unexpected event in any case). Perhaps this reduces anxiety, although death from Covid-19 is rather unpleasant.

.  What is being avoided in public discourse is that as I stated above: " It is possible we enter some sort of dark ages. It depends on how much technology gets shut down, especially those that are very hard to start up again. Or even impossible to start up again." Especially very high tek stuff.

.  Of course many preppers would not be shocked by this possibility, and probably not some others, who remember the 60s.

.  Without more testing & some idea of whats going on in Africa & Russia & Sweden (no lockdown),  & India ;  and other wild cards such as hospital overload & number qualified health care workers; and lack of sufficient ventilators and many stupid governments (including the one in the USA) - all add up to making accurate prediction impossible.

However in the event that:
....Much technology gets shut down, especially those that are very hard to start up again. Or even impossible to start up again.....This is on another level than just economic depression. ... When new computers and chips are no longer designed and built, and so on, then the foundations of what we have come to consider civilization, will be very vulnerable ...  We cannot evaluate how likely this is ... but to think it can't happen seems, (to me) like the same optimistic folly that contributed to the current situation.

.    What is predictable, is further hardship, death, & grief, world wide.
The only silver lining is less pollution & perhaps less climate change.
As to what happens to the birth rate, with "shelter in place"... who knows? And what shape the hospitals will be in, in 9 to 12 months....who knows?

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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26569469 - 03/31/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

this is how anyone can have a great mask now

you can add as many layers as you like


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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26569589 - 03/31/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Excellent points, laughingdog. The only thing I would add is regarding the testing: the official numbers we see right now correspond to our current testing capability. In the U.S. it is woefully inadequate. Thousands of people that the medical community wants to test, or feels should be tested, are not getting tested. How many multiples of the reported cases are the actual cases? Three? Four?


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26569598 - 03/31/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Excellent points, laughingdog. The only thing I would add is regarding the testing: the official numbers we see right now correspond to our current testing capability. In the U.S. it is woefully inadequate. Thousands of people that the medical community wants to test, or feels should be tested, are not getting tested. How many multiples of the reported cases are the actual cases? Three? Four?





Hell no.

A lot more than that. I want to say hundreds but I'm too lazy to fact check it a.t.m.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: AZZI]
    #26569603 - 03/31/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: End of Empire [Re: AZZI]
    #26570874 - 04/01/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)


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Re: End of Empire [Re: dbreeze]
    #26571128 - 04/01/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I suspect we are all uniformed, & that some data is rather hard to obtain:

How is social distancing working at nuclear power plants .... world wide?
How is testing & social distancing working in the armed forces ... world wide?
How is testing & social distancing working in the armed forces branches, that deal with nuclear missiles .... world wide?
How is social distancing possible in a submarine? esp. a nuclear one? Or on an aircraft carrier? What about the recirculating air on a sub?

What about all the spies world wide in foreign countries?

Seems to me the modern "civilized" world is so complex, and was already quite unstable, so that ............

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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26571825 - 04/01/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. ....Thoughts?




It was pretty exposed already ( animation by Steve Cutts) :




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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26571894 - 04/01/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Not bad.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #26574229 - 04/02/20 11:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Update,

In the triangle of NC, atleast.  Hospitals and their sister operations and nursing homes have begun to get an influx of testing kits. (Sadly, the false negatives your hearing about on the news are probably from poorly performed tests - because in large part they require sticking a 6 inch swab up someone’s nose all the way to the back of the nasal passages as close to the mucus membrane as possible so as to get a fresh supply of viral infused mucosa nearest to the lung connected trach). Atleast that’s my take, could be wrong though, but Ive seen it used incorrectly because someone doesn’t want to poke their brains to be sure if they have it or not... i mean cmon...its not that bad ... especially in exchange for knowing your condition!!! :rofl:

I haven’t seen all the numbers, just what comes through the health care related emails from the state,  the next 3 months still look difficult and things are up in the air as to the course of history, I’m positive in my outlook but am greatly concerned as to the amount of people in Raleigh, Durham, and chapel hill - that are not following the guidelines to with this pandemic ...even though literally everyone has been mailed the protocols... yesterday I went to buy groceries for my family and pick up some prescriptions for a couple of them...Only 3 people in the Harris Teeter wore masks.  Out of those 3 , only 1 wore a mask graded enough to be effective at blocking viral bodies that are aerosolized.

I noticed a few weeks ago in a store people wiping things down, and being concerned only about sick people touching things and spreading “germs” or coughing and sneezing , as if those were the main ways that things spread when airborne..

Simply talking or breathing expels a viral load (and the concentration of said load is dependent upon how much time the virus has had to multiply within host cells in the affected ones body)....  So.... wear your graded masks people.  I wear a n95 respirator  and latex gloves ...the masks can be reused by a few methods,  look them up.  I use hydrogen peroxide solution and a dehydrator and a powder to do so.

Important!  Our breath , when we simply breath or when we talk,  diffuses into the surrounding air, so in theory and practice, those with a viral load - weather they show symptoms or not - even if they practice the 4-6-8 foot social distancing rule ( which is more to keep people calm and lesson chances by a statistically bleh amount) ...if your not protected you can get sick.  Corona can be in you multiplying for up to 2 weeks before symptoms present, all the while one is still spreading infectious fumes.  OR you can get it and it can present with symptoms in 48 hours, or anything in between the 2.  Also, it can last up to , for some, 30 days.  Usually its 10-15 days or less for the non vulnerable.  Those at high risk can be ill for longer.

For some it wont matter, you’ll have flu like symptoms and it can suck ass leaving you bedridden or fine but feeling like crap,  for others it can cause serious complications leading to a debilitated life, and or death.    So if someone your in contact with like family or friends or coworkers have pre existing conditions (look up the ones that are high risk for corona related complications and death) - protect yourself and by doing so the dual purpose is achieved of protecting them too!  The lose of beloved ones is the worst fear I have during this time.

I liken some of Asia’s ability to combat this pandemic with their cultural norm of using protective equipment whenever sick.  This must have been a major reason for SK and to lesser extent Jps current status.  They were them when they get sick or when its flu season, to protect themselves and others.  That’s not a practice the West is largely familiar with in practice...lets hope that changes fast.

Careful shroomerites, and dont turn into chaotic plebs,  things will work out one way or another.  Even though its looking like the rest of 2020 will be dealing with this thing.

Nows a perfect time for people to have a reflective trip on their personal lives, and the surrounding world of our times.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/02/20 11:53 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26574977 - 04/03/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

you do not need that n-95 unless you are working with a patient and are doing something to cause aerosol of virus. for that you also want a shield for your eyes.

otherwise it is 99% surface transmitted - talking and normal breathing is not causing aerosol. so ordinary masks of any kind are ok, especially with social distancing.

THE MAIN REASON to wear a mask is so you do not touch your face.

[covid virus is transferred 99% from a touched surface to your hands and to eyes, nose of mouth - that is what has to be blocked]

wash hands before removing your mask when you get home, because you may have touched surfaces which are 99% of the transmission method for this virus. aerosols not so much.

I you have covid, use a separate bathroom from other family members, or try to get to a place where complete washroom wipedowns are not required after every visit..

if you have difficulty breathing go to the hospital


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26575394 - 04/03/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Rgv, they do.  It’s not a crackpot comment,  but I may have come off as alarmist, my bad.  It’s not as likely, but is possible in that the physics work out that way, but not like Hollywood movies about viruses, but it happens.  I mainly don’t want to get the family I’m hunkered down with sick on accident by 3 of them have direct contact with patients and a1 is high risk, the another over 65. 

But thanks for the brakes and fire retardant, what you say holds for the general public (mostly , so far) :pipesmoke:


Also, these damn cloud breathing vape people, lmao.

I’m glad it’s not a high mortality rated virus, in that regard, things are looking up.  More concerned about my countries pocket book than plague zombies taking over, anywho- it’s going to need some quality attention after this blows over. 


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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/03/20 03:16 PM)

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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26575417 - 04/03/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Seeing as how some people don't get symptoms... seeing as how corona viruses are generally known to be airborne, I'm taking everything with a grain of salt for the time being. In the months to come I'm sure we'll get access to clinical studies on all the specifics.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26592501 - 04/11/20 12:55 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Empire?..

Don’t worry it’s going in slowly..


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26592651 - 04/11/20 03:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?





I agree but I believe we've been on the decline for decades now. I think it's something that the rest of the world has noticed and know more than most Americans do. Don't get me wrong, we're still much wealthier than most other countries in the world and many people still see that side of it. The consensus in South America, I've found is that people generally consider the US to be a very dangerous and troubled place BUT it's a rich dangerous and troubled place.

I anticipate that as we become less and less warlike (no matter what communist friends might tell you, we're doing a lot of talking but not a lot of war). As antiquated as the thinking may seem, the fact that we posed a genuine threat to any country who decided to cross us kept much of the world in check. The more that other states realize that we'll never take action against them (Kim family in North Korea, Assad in Syria, Maduro in Venezuela) the less relevant and influential we'll be on the world's stage.

It won't much matter in the near future anyway as I strongly believe that this global depression will compare to what we experienced in the 1920's & 1930's.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Darwin23] * 2
    #26592989 - 04/11/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yes I share your views. I fully agree that the U.S. has been in decline for a long time. My original point was that, put a different way, I think historians will look back on this coronavirus crisis as the final nail in the coffin. I don't think we were ever going to turn it around, but I think this crisis marks the point at which it will be totally impossible, even in principle, for us to reverse or even mitigate our fate. As I say, not that we were going to.

And I agree that in the next few months a global depression will probably be the result. Very few people are getting real about this. There will be no getting "back to normal."


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26593036 - 04/11/20 09:16 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

That’s because it’s not the same thing as a hurricane, they come and go, but the season stays.
Corona virus is a part of modern everyday life now and that’s just how it is.  In a couple years there will probably be a vaccine, but that’s not this year.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26593059 - 04/11/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

many of the unsolved problems we face, are uncontrolled consequences that we placed into motion. we may find artificial means to eventually bring the problems under control, but it seems that they in turn introduce new obstacles of their own.

take the Fukushima disaster cleanup for example, the only solution to averting a complete meltdown disaster is to pump ocean water in and out of the disabled reactor. the ocean water being pumped in and out is of course is contaminating the pacific!

another unsolved problem that remains.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26593268 - 04/11/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Absolutely, good point. I think that's the nature of civilization. When you take over and start meddling with an ecosystem, you're typically never able to stop meddling with it trying to bring it back into balance. The U.S. government, for example, specifically the Department of the Interior, does a lot of work protecting endangered species.

In the Colorado River Basin, where there are all sorts of dams, the government does all it can to preserve endangered animals, especially fish species. But when they institute one measure, another unrelated species begins to dominate, and then a different endangered species is in trouble. Then they take a measure for that one, and a particular algae in the river goes out of control, and affects other species, ad infinitum. You get the idea. Long and short of it is that you're totally right.

So this coronavirus crisis is so complex that it will have ripple effects, sort of like a domino effect. And we correct one problem after a lot of money, time and effort, only to find that this has exposed an unrelated imbalance. We'll see what happens, but there are going to be some severe, multifaceted and numerous side effects even from the main economic and social crisis. I guess you could say it's an interesting time to be alive, but all the same, it's really very unfortunate and distressing. We'll just have to see where it all goes, and that will be a protracted, long-term thing.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26593705 - 04/11/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?




There will be a vaccine stat...rich people cant stay rich when poor people don't work. Business as usual...empire...be real...yawn.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26593871 - 04/11/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Stat?  Do you know how long it takes to develop a vaccine?  Just figuring it out, than trials (if step 1 occurs) for safety and side effects, infrastructure to manufacture enough for an entire country’s worth?  If I had to guess I would say a few years at best, when dealing with something new.  You?  Be  Realistic now, and don’t post blind, or atleast say if you don’t know.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26594075 - 04/11/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
There will be a vaccine stat...




As the Blind Ass pointed out, that's not an easy or trivial thing...

Quote:

rich people cant stay rich when poor people don't work.




And we are seeing their impotence as the illusion of control evaporates...

Quote:

Business as usual




You ever seen anything like this before?

Quote:

...empire...be real...yawn.




What is it you think I meant?


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26594416 - 04/11/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?






i hope you're right.


other than minor inconveniences and worrying about family (more than usual), my life is pretty much the same.  i go to work, i eat, i sleep.

when the supply chains really breakdown is when i'll feel it.



but i hope you're right.  i don't see much changing out of all of this.  in fact, what i see holding more promise/potential in waking people up is how quickly the "wild" has moved back into long-inhabited areas.  but then again, there's a reason i live out in the hills.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26595332 - 04/12/20 09:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Stat?  Do you know how long it takes to develop a vaccine?  Just figuring it out, than trials (if step 1 occurs) for safety and side effects, infrastructure to manufacture enough for an entire country’s worth?  If I had to guess I would say a few years at best, when dealing with something new.  You?  Be  Realistic now, and don’t post blind, or atleast say if you don’t know.




One example...aids is a good example. If it had primarily affected the mainstream a vaccine would have been developed...no one cared that much because most of the people who got it belonged to a disenfranchised group. This virus hits anybody..that means resources will be devoted to it. I also know that a lab in the US was working on vaccines for emerging (read likely to jump from animal to human) corona viruses for the last 6 years, and this very virus was one of their targets. I am a science nerd so I read a lot. If you read about it you will learn a lot about vaccines. You need to identify antibodies that fight the virus by testing people who recovered then create the antibodies for injection. Antibodies are already identified and test for them already being rolled out. Will it happen quick? It will be a few months in my opinion.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26595338 - 04/12/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:

i hope you're right.


other than minor inconveniences and worrying about family (more than usual), my life is pretty much the same.  i go to work, i eat, i sleep.

when the supply chains really breakdown is when i'll feel it.



but i hope you're right.  i don't see much changing out of all of this.  in fact, what i see holding more promise/potential in waking people up is how quickly the "wild" has moved back into long-inhabited areas.  but then again, there's a reason i live out in the hills.




The hills sounds like a pretty good place to be right now. But you are right that in the coming weeks, supply chains -- especially for food -- are going to have been stressed to the limit. I've been looking at the media a little bit and there seems to be some implicit suggestion that we'll be able to resume normal activities sooner rather than later, and I just don't see it. Then there are the second and third waves in summer and fall. So, this is bad. Which is to say nothing of the economic crisis itself.

I share your view that, probably, not much will change with the social order as a result of this. It seems like when we read history, events like this led to big changes, at least in the short term. I don't think the wage slaves are going to cry out too much -- their usual paycheck is just too fundamental to them, and they'd like to have back the privilege of getting it and not much more.

And the American public, it would appear, is not sophisticated enough to learn much from this. The notion that the elite absolutely depend on the middle and lower classes, a system that is completely broken, an infrastructure that cannot cope with a crisis, an economy that is artificial and utterly fragile, etc., etc. These notions seem to be too abstract for the average citizen.

I'd like people to "wake up" but I'll believe it when I see it.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26595583 - 04/12/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
One example...aids is a good example. If it had primarily affected the mainstream a vaccine would have been developed...no one cared that much because most of the people who got it belonged to a disenfranchised group. This virus hits anybody..that means resources will be devoted to it. I also know that a lab in the US was working on vaccines for emerging (read likely to jump from animal to human) corona viruses for the last 6 years, and this very virus was one of their targets. I am a science nerd so I read a lot. If you read about it you will learn a lot about vaccines. You need to identify antibodies that fight the virus by testing people who recovered then create the antibodies for injection. Antibodies are already identified and test for them already being rolled out. Will it happen quick? It will be a few months in my opinion.




There will be work done but it could still be a while. A corona virus vaccine would be a first. There was work done on a vaccine when the first SARS hit but never finished, ostensibly because the contagion petered out. But apparently it's no easy task.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26595605 - 04/12/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
One example...aids is a good example. If it had primarily affected the mainstream a vaccine would have been developed...no one cared that much because most of the people who got it belonged to a disenfranchised group. This virus hits anybody..that means resources will be devoted to it. I also know that a lab in the US was working on vaccines for emerging (read likely to jump from animal to human) corona viruses for the last 6 years, and this very virus was one of their targets. I am a science nerd so I read a lot. If you read about it you will learn a lot about vaccines. You need to identify antibodies that fight the virus by testing people who recovered then create the antibodies for injection. Antibodies are already identified and test for them already being rolled out. Will it happen quick? It will be a few months in my opinion.




Interesting. Can you point to any prominent scientists that agree with your opinion that it would be easy to create a vaccine for aids given the proper resources?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26596871 - 04/12/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't say it would be easy, but when the elite of our society...for better or worse...are impacted money will be spent to cure it...if it only affect an unimportant minority is affected no one will do it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26596874 - 04/12/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
One example...aids is a good example. If it had primarily affected the mainstream a vaccine would have been developed...no one cared that much because most of the people who got it belonged to a disenfranchised group. This virus hits anybody..that means resources will be devoted to it. I also know that a lab in the US was working on vaccines for emerging (read likely to jump from animal to human) corona viruses for the last 6 years, and this very virus was one of their targets. I am a science nerd so I read a lot. If you read about it you will learn a lot about vaccines. You need to identify antibodies that fight the virus by testing people who recovered then create the antibodies for injection. Antibodies are already identified and test for them already being rolled out. Will it happen quick? It will be a few months in my opinion.




Interesting. Can you point to any prominent scientists that agree with your opinion that it would be easy to create a vaccine for aids given the proper resources?




Learn how to use google search and you will read what I read...come on this is easy stuff to find. I am not searching links for mainstream news. I don't have anything to prove. You can find all the info I have easily.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26597006 - 04/13/20 12:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

We almost there folks, 2000 a day in US already.

I mean, the only hope is competence to reduce the coming massacre of the US.

Alas, you know, alas. =/


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26597375 - 04/13/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I was just interested I don't know why you're getting so defensive. If you don't have a source to share then fine. :shrug:

I've never heard anyone echo that POV in media or on documentaries so naturally I am a little suspicious of it. Usually I have heard people saying that vaccines can be difficult to produce. I couldn't find anything very similar doing a quick google search either. It's not like I'm not open to the idea as it does seem reasonable in theory.

I found this.

"Myth: The search for an HIV vaccine has been going on for a long time and it just isn’t possible to find one that works.

Fact: The science of HIV-vaccine development is challenging, but scientific understanding continues to improve all the time. In just the past few years there have been promising results from the RV144 study in Thailand as well as exciting laboratory work, such as the discovery of new broadly neutralizing antibodies against HIV. HIV is a powerful opponent, but scientists are constantly learning from one another and using advanced technology to fight it. Science has come a long way in the 30 years since AIDS was discovered. In comparing preventive HIV vaccine work to other vaccine development, the time it has taken is not so surprising; it took 47 years to develop the polio vaccine!"


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26597411 - 04/13/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

myth: Polio is an infectious disease.



sugar lump vaccine

video summary: propaganda from 1961



Polio is a Man-Made Disease: Part 1

video summary: before the 1800's Polio did not exist. in the late 1800's it started to pop up, and Polio seemed to peaked in 1952. did polio appear from a change in genetics, a change in microbes, or a change in the environment?

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire *DELETED* [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597516 - 04/13/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by The Blind Ass

Reason for deletion: AccidentL


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 09:28 AM)

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26597528 - 04/13/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Absolutely, good point. I think that's the nature of civilization. When you take over and start meddling with an ecosystem, you're typically never able to stop meddling with it trying to bring it back into balance. The U.S. government, for example, specifically the Department of the Interior, does a lot of work protecting endangered species.

In the Colorado River Basin, where there are all sorts of dams, the government does all it can to preserve endangered animals, especially fish species. But when they institute one measure, another unrelated species begins to dominate, and then a different endangered species is in trouble. Then they take a measure for that one, and a particular algae in the river goes out of control, and affects other species, ad infinitum. You get the idea. Long and short of it is that you're totally right.

So this coronavirus crisis is so complex that it will have ripple effects, sort of like a domino effect. And we correct one problem after a lot of money, time and effort, only to find that this has exposed an unrelated imbalance. We'll see what happens, but there are going to be some severe, multifaceted and numerous side effects even from the main economic and social crisis. I guess you could say it's an interesting time to be alive, but all the same, it's really very unfortunate and distressing. We'll just have to see where it all goes, and that will be a protracted, long-term thing.




.    Seems to me that at the foundation of all these problems, is an insane amount of over population. I grew up in a small town, in the 1950s. I climbed trees, played in woods, the whole town felt safe, there was a lake, an empty field with green grass, a pond, a natural history  museum, and only one small down town area with shops. The first shopping center, mostly one story buildings was a novelty at first. There were no malls anywhere, and no franchised junk food outlets or big box stores. All stores were run by local families - real unique hardware stores, separate lumber yards,  book stores without coffee shops. Parking mostly wasn't a problem.
It was safe for kids to  ride their bikes all over town. There was a natural quality of life and the wonders of nature were part of it. There were both flower & vegetable gardens.
.    It was fun to visit a big city near by, with my parents - but it was obvious, the exciting hustle and bustle was no substitute, for the miracles of the natural world.
.    The birth rate of hunter gatherers, is regulated by the environment, even though humans have no breeding season and are always fertile, because they can't store food, and so on.
.    Many or most animals populations are regulated by a seasonal sexual cycle and/or predation and the struggle to find sufficient food and the vulnerability of offspring, and in the cases of large mammals like elephants the length of gestation.
.    Civilization destroyed the functioning of all these natural mechanisms, and resulted in over population immediately if we define it as degrading the immediate environment, enough to lower the nutritional quality of food, and increase the work necessary to produce it. Marvin Harris books detail how this occurred over and over again in civilization after civilization.
.    After the industrial revolution (tractors) and chemical revolution (chemical fertilizers, accelerating after WWII ), this process became became exponential, with the insane population numbers we have today and the resulting devastation of the planet.
.    It is almost taboo to point this out.  The American dream is to own your own house & have 2.5 kids. But humans obviously cannot sensibly control their own birth rate. To me this is totally obvious. But humans raised in big cities, have reality filters, just as those raised in orthodox religious families have another set of reality filters.
.    Then technology, and capitalist greed gave us factory farming, especially chicken and egg farms. This is where viruses evolve, as many come from birds. And in chicken factory farms there is no sunlight, no proper exercise, and the birds are confined with their poop, which is humid and full of bacteria and viruses. Cattle feed lots also confine animals with their shit. Mad cow disease came from feeding vegetarian browsers, feed that contained as a component dead cows.
.    The evidence is clear that among human follies accelerated virus evolution, and encouraging animal to human transmission, is only one of many.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/pandemics-history-prevention/

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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26597538 - 04/13/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

where's the con?

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597549 - 04/13/20 09:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I haven’t actually watched any vids you posted, so I will edit my posts.  Thought you were saying polio wasn’t an epidemic in the country, because I was on autopilot against some trolls and fools in the pub haha, so my apologies for posting blindly. the history of polio is well documented and available to anyone who wants to know.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 09:34 AM)

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597561 - 04/13/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting thanks for sharing. Watched all the videos he had on polio but it's all very vague and seems mostly a platform for him selling his book to me, didn't find it convincing.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26597670 - 04/13/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

the history of polio is well documented - a history that is told to perpetuate a lie.  society's acceptance of the history of polio is used to validate the mandated use of vaccines.

polio was used as a smokescreen.  it has never been scientifically established that a virus is the cause of polio.  polio has never been proven to be contagious or infectious by the means that virologists would have you believe.  the lies were used to make the vaccine seem effective.

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Interesting thanks for sharing. Watched all the videos he had on polio but it's all very vague and seems mostly a platform for him selling his book to me, didn't find it convincing.




if Mr. Maready's videos seemed vague it's only because, he's condensing great complexity into simplified bits that anyone can take a bite out of.  he's scraping the surface of an entire counter-narrative that says viruses and bacteria are not the sole cause of infectious disease.

Quote:

"The bottom line is that the medical systems are controlled by financiers in order to serve financiers. Since you cannot serve people unless they get sick, the whole medical system is designed to make people sicker and sicker'" --Guylaine Lanctot, M.D.




if you want something more in depth:



Suzanne Humphries, MD, speaking on Polio at the Association of Natural Health Conference

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597700 - 04/13/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I will probably give it a look later but I am hesitant to look too much into anything perpetuated by the anti-vax crowd. Anybody who was around in the 60s saw very clearly the amount of misery prevented by vaccines.

To say it's a subject of great complexity is an easy argument to make and he might be somewhere in the ball park with some of his points. Of course I am just a layman so I can only go by instinct but I would rather trust the consensus of expert opinion than opinions pushed by obscure youtubers and journalists.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597756 - 04/13/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:

Quote:

"The bottom line is that the medical systems are controlled by financiers in order to serve financiers. Since you cannot serve people unless they get sick, the whole medical system is designed to make people sicker and sicker'" --Guylaine Lanctot, M.D.








This assumes that all scientists work for "big Pharma". And that all doctors are secretly evil, rather than, simply uninformed about some matters ( such as nutrition, or like everyone else uninformed about  smoking & radiation in the 1950s)

This belief requires a greater leap of faith than, does the accepted story of polio and vaccines.

The present viruses, have been inadvertently, intensified by factory farming, and Chinese wild food markets where civets and birds are stacked above each other and shit on each other, as detailed in the video linked to in my previous post here.

Human stupidity and greed seem much greater, than intentional malevolence.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26597782 - 04/13/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

That the diseases have been intensified would be something I could accept and I might be interested to look further into. The claim that they are entirely man made and that vaccine use is not of value and should be stopped seems more than a few steps too far.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26597808 - 04/13/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

how can you have trust and belief in these consensus authorities and expert opinions?  the people that you claim to be reputable have been paid and bought for by big pharma.

human beings are losing quality of life for money and power. 

monopolistic corporations use mass media and social engineering to drive sales of their products.  in the US the medical industry is a monopoly, a monopoly that does not make its fortunes by curing people and preventing disease.  don't you think that blindly trusting what you have read or been told about the effectiveness of vaccines is a little bit nuts? 

polio was not eradicated, it was renamed.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597843 - 04/13/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The idea that almost the entire scientific community in the medical field has been bought and paid for by big pharma is just nuts. We are now seeing the dangers of these anti vaccination ideas in countries where they have take root and now previously eradicted diseases have come back in these areas in some instances.

I will trust my instincts to decide which expert's knowledge I defer to in any field of thought as I recognise the impossibility of being an expert in every single field of knowledge.

If Polio has only been renamed then where are all the millions of people hooked up to iron lungs now? Ask yourself if vaccines were some big pharma hoax to make money why would they be selling things that have long term effectiveness rather than obscuring the knowledge to manufacture them and instead making far greater margins manufacturing palliative care?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597850 - 04/13/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

How great is your knowledge of biology?
Did you ever read anything describing the work of  Louis Pasteur and Robert Koch  who established the germ theory of disease.
I expect without some background in science, one is not qualified to understand it.
This is true of many who believe all sorts of conspiracy theories, such as 'Flat Earthers'.
There are thousands of such people, and hundreds of conspiracy theories to choose from.
Interestingly many go from one pet theory, to believing in more and more.
I wonder why this is.
It is true that much of what most people believe is silly or simply wrong.
But to jump from this to what amounts to a form of paranoia, seems unnecessary.

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26597931 - 04/13/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
.    Seems to me that at the foundation of all these problems, is an insane amount of over population. I grew up in a small town, in the 1950s. I climbed trees, played in woods, the whole town felt safe, there was a lake, an empty field with green grass, a pond, a natural history  museum, and only one small down town area with shops. The first shopping center, mostly one story buildings was a novelty at first. There were no malls anywhere, and no franchised junk food outlets or big box stores. All stores were run by local families - real unique hardware stores, separate lumber yards,  book stores without coffee shops. Parking mostly wasn't a problem.
It was safe for kids to  ride their bikes all over town. There was a natural quality of life and the wonders of nature were part of it. There were both flower & vegetable gardens.
.    It was fun to visit a big city near by, with my parents - but it was obvious, the exciting hustle and bustle was no substitute, for the miracles of the natural world.
.    The birth rate of hunter gatherers, is regulated by the environment, even though humans have no breeding season and are always fertile, because they can't store food, and so on.
.    Many or most animals populations are regulated by a seasonal sexual cycle and/or predation and the struggle to find sufficient food and the vulnerability of offspring, and in the cases of large mammals like elephants the length of gestation.
.    Civilization destroyed the functioning of all these natural mechanisms, and resulted in over population immediately if we define it as degrading the immediate environment, enough to lower the nutritional quality of food, and increase the work necessary to produce it. Marvin Harris books detail how this occurred over and over again in civilization after civilization.
.    After the industrial revolution (tractors) and chemical revolution (chemical fertilizers, accelerating after WWII ), this process became became exponential, with the insane population numbers we have today and the resulting devastation of the planet.
.    It is almost taboo to point this out.  The American dream is to own your own house & have 2.5 kids. But humans obviously cannot sensibly control their own birth rate. To me this is totally obvious. But humans raised in big cities, have reality filters, just as those raised in orthodox religious families have another set of reality filters.
.    Then technology, and capitalist greed gave us factory farming, especially chicken and egg farms. This is where viruses evolve, as many come from birds. And in chicken factory farms there is no sunlight, no proper exercise, and the birds are confined with their poop, which is humid and full of bacteria and viruses. Cattle feed lots also confine animals with their shit. Mad cow disease came from feeding vegetarian browsers, feed that contained as a component dead cows.
.    The evidence is clear that among human follies accelerated virus evolution, and encouraging animal to human transmission, is only one of many.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/pandemics-history-prevention/





Oh yes, I think the most fundamental factor in our numerous crises is indeed a population of almost 8 billion and counting. (I mean just think about it, 8 billion people. My God.) The majority of the environmental, social, economic, political, etc., etc. issues we face -- especially the whole environmental crisis -- is a direct result of a population that went out of any reasonable control over a hundred years ago. With the whole world trying to live with a Western style of living, it absolutely does not work. And look around. It's just too many humans. I'm sure a variety of animal species agree with that.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26597979 - 04/13/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
Quote:

"The bottom line is that the medical systems are controlled by financiers in order to serve financiers. Since you cannot serve people unless they get sick, the whole medical system is designed to make people sicker and sicker'" --Guylaine Lanctot, M.D.









Sorry but saying the medical system is designed to make people and sicker is just incredibly one sided.  Human nature being what it is, Obviously one side of the coin is always going to generally be dark and corrupted, while the other side is generally wholesome and noble.

Vaccines are incredible, and a large part of why modern society was able to flourish so much.  Overall they have done more good and saved more lives than any other practice of medicine in history- while the time period when the concept of immunization and vaccine development was going through trial and error, yeah some awful things happened around the world and at different times, damaging the public’s trust in professional medicine, and while I personally don’t think that the ends justify the means is a good philosophy, immunization, vaccines, and herd immunity are such a treasure for the entire species as a whole, that overlooking that fact because of the incidents were it was abused or misused is a mistake.

And I still haven’t watched those videos, but I live with 3 physicians right now and I can play it for them, and they can see if the logic behind it is sound in light of their masterful knowledge and experience.    How confident are you that it’s not a grift?  What do you think my family will say?

They are all some of the most noble and moral human beings I’ve ever met, and have not been bought out by Pharma or any special interests besides practicing medicine as an expression or extension of their faith to heal and alleviate suffering in others.

So I think your being duped by an easy cop out way of thinking , lots of straw man fallacies in it, instead of critically thinking and judging on a case by case basis with people. 


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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 01:00 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26598152 - 04/13/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Suzanne Humphries is a waste of time.

check snopes and debunk yourself
Quote:


The flu vaccine has been the subject of a number of either completely or mostly incorrect claims made about its safety, which we have previously reviewed in detail. Here Elizabeth adds to that list with a new claim, made in the form of a link to a YouTube video featuring anti-vaccine activist, Natural News contributor and former nephrologist Suzanne Humphries in which she claims that “plenty” of medical literature demonstrates that a flu shot increases your risk of getting the flu or other respiratory diseases in following years.

This is a stretch. One small-scale study published in 2012 found an increased risk of “virologically-confirmed non-influenza infections,” arguing that “being protected against influenza, [flu shot] recipients may lack temporary non-specific immunity that protected against other respiratory viruses.” No other studies have replicated this result (though many have tried), and a number of larger-scale studies have, in fact, found no evidence that this is the case.

Elizabeth’s effort to turn the tragic deaths of eight senior citizens from the flu into an argument against influenza inoculation rests only on the premise that there is a significant risk to getting the flu shot in the first place. She has provided no credible evidence to support that claim because no credible evidence exists. Instead, she uses the testimony of someone who once provided a biblical rationale for avoiding vaccines to make her argument.

The fact is, unless you belong to a class of immunocompromised individuals, the flu shot is extremely safe but its effectiveness does vary year to year. Even in its least effective years, though, influenza immunization has been shown to reduce significantly the incidence of the virus at the population level, which ultimately means there will be fewer opportunities for someone to infect, as an example, eight Santa Barbara County residents.




a person blabbing on you tube video does not mean what they say is true.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26598162 - 04/13/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



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Edited by redgreenvines (04/13/20 02:26 PM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26598201 - 04/13/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I am adamantly anti  anti-vaxxer.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26598253 - 04/13/20 02:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

i'm excited to see what your family has to say, Blind.  i would actually recommend this lecture for them, or to anyone who is anti anti vaccer.



Part 1 Manufactured Consent MD Suzanne Humphries 2015


laughingdog,   

the problem starts in medical school, when future medical professionals are indoctrinated into biological sciences that are beguiled by Newton's atomistic view.  here, modern western medicine has dissected the whole living being into increasingly smaller pieces, and  in the process of this separation the systemic interconnectedness of the whole living being has been almost completely disregarded.

the connectivity of molecular biology can not be understood from its current dogmatic reductionist view consisting of strictly linear relationships.  by trying to deconstruct the human being to understand it, we end up with a degraded understanding.  academia is not exactly willing to take it's foundations and knock them down and start anew.  unfortunately, because understandings have been built off of vivisected principals the actual techniques practiced within the industry are literally broken down.

as far as Pasteur, legend has it that on his death bed he renounced germ theory.

Quote:

"the entire fabric of the germ theory of disease rests upon assumptions which not only have not been proved, but which are incapable of proof, and many of them can be proved to be the reverse of truth. The basic one of these unproven assumptions, the credit for which in its present form is wholly due to Pasteur, is the hypothesis that all the so called infectious and contagious disorders are caused by germs, each disease having its own specific germ, which germs have existed in the air from the beginning of things, and that though the body is closed to these pathogen's germs when in good health, when the vitality is lowered the body becomes susceptible to their inroads." M.L. Leverson, MD




the conflicting theory to germ theory, cellular theory, proposes that germs are a symptom of disease, not the cause of it.  in cellular theory, infection is a state, not a cause.  illness is first prevented, by cultivating health through diet, hygiene, and lifestyle.  in germ theory, infection is the cause, disease is the state.  the power and financial prowess of medical sciences has been based on the fear of disease, particularly infectious disease. 

in recent times autoimmune diseases have become an epidemic.  autoimmune diseases are three times more prevalent than they were three decades ago.  it can be demonstrated that this is not the result of altered diagnostic criteria or awareness.  these autoimmune diseases are a crisis created by the environments that we live in.  something has pushed human autoimmunity over the edge.  thanks to excess chemical, electromagnetic, mental, physical, and nutritional stresses the total human organism has become progressively challenged and degraded.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26598274 - 04/13/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, I’ll wait for my younger brother to get home in a couple hours... he loves responding to individuals who have no idea about immunology, or medicine.  I’ll be sure to get him to respond via my account here before midnight if he doesn’t have an exam.  He can go into depth over the details much better than I ever would be able to.

I want to believe your heart is in the right place, but if you can keep an open mind without letting your brains fall out, I could see your view on some of these subjects mature to a real solid understanding.

You may assume that I, or he don’t know about the flaws, and the dark side of human nature in regards to history, medicine, pharma, conspiracies, vaccines, diseases etc, but I can assure that is not the case.  We know them and a good bit of history, and he knows that and the actual medical side, but we don’t let that get in the way of understanding what’s what.  Not in something as serious as this. 

Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 03:17 PM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26598315 - 04/13/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I was just interested I don't know why you're getting so defensive. If you don't have a source to share then fine. :shrug:

I've never heard anyone echo that POV in media or on documentaries so naturally I am a little suspicious of it. Usually I have heard people saying that vaccines can be difficult to produce. I couldn't find anything very similar doing a quick google search either. It's not like I'm not open to the idea as it does seem reasonable in theory.

I found this.

"Myth: The search for an HIV vaccine has been going on for a long time and it just isn’t possible to find one that works.

Fact: The science of HIV-vaccine development is challenging, but scientific understanding continues to improve all the time. In just the past few years there have been promising results from the RV144 study in Thailand as well as exciting laboratory work, such as the discovery of new broadly neutralizing antibodies against HIV. HIV is a powerful opponent, but scientists are constantly learning from one another and using advanced technology to fight it. Science has come a long way in the 30 years since AIDS was discovered. In comparing preventive HIV vaccine work to other vaccine development, the time it has taken is not so surprising; it took 47 years to develop the polio vaccine!"




https://theprint.in/health/70-coronavirus-vaccines-in-development-3-candidates-already-undergoing-human-trials-who/400587/


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26598340 - 04/13/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

stop posting drivel from Suzanne Humphries.
it is garbage, fake information.
she is not a valid reference for anything.

check it out at snopes.

you are exposing an extreme lack of depth by posting her video's unless you mean to say - people like her and her followers are a viral disease that is killing the sanity of this country.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26598424 - 04/13/20 04:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

well then, looks like i'm a virus.

do you think viruses can kill peoples sanity?

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26598451 - 04/13/20 04:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

thealienthatstegod,  afraid the lil bro called you an idiot, plus got his fiancé staying over, so yeah.  Afterwards he just gave me a look only siblings can understand, and that was that.  I’m afraid you must carry on as you were ... sorry love


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26598578 - 04/13/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
https://theprint.in/health/70-coronavirus-vaccines-in-development-3-candidates-already-undergoing-human-trials-who/400587/




Okay I think I see a bit better what you are saying.

I do understand that a lot of government resources are being put into place to push out a vaccine for corona virus as fast as possible. No doubt down to a number of reasons, for instance; possibly because (without getting too in depth politically) a great many people's livelihoods rich and poor depend on it, and also possibly because unlike most diseases everybody is at risk of this or has someone they know who is at risk (short of collaborative effort there is no surefire protection, we can't say the same for AIDs). It's also a much faster and more apparent spreader. I think your view of where the motivation comes from for mobilising these resources is a little blunted, one sided, and cynical, not that there's so much wrong with that.

What's more nothing in this tells us whether placing heavy funding in research would mean a quick vaccine for AIDs and virus' like it or not. There are many reasons that this might be doable for corona virus and not for AIDs. It doesn't give us any kind of comparative information. I seem to remember reading a few articles lately with hopeful messages and speculations stating a number of reasons why it might be easier to create a vaccine for corona virus than other viral strains. We haven't hit the finish line of actually procuring a vaccine yet either so it's too early to say whether people can expect one soon just due to putting so many resouces in gear for it.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26598637 - 04/13/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
well then, looks like i'm a virus.

do you think viruses can kill peoples sanity?




Relax, I think RGV is being a little overly cruel to start referring to people as viruses, people are just animals and everyone saint or sinner shares in the same nature. However we can become "infected" in a sense with certain theories that lend themselves to paranoia, which can become a kind of sickness inside us, and people would do well to take great care to bolster themselves against, and not to associate with these idea spheres.

For my part I can see where the theory you present does match itself up with the truth of the problems that are certainly there within modern medical practice. Problems that if I have my ear to the ground well enough the field is beginning to recognise in itself and make the first blundering attempts to self correct for. The only instance of a popular medical science of the past trying to treat the individual wholistically in some sense is perhaps in psychotherapeutic practice. But this practice has had difficulty producing results and so continues to. However the medical field do a very good job of curative physical medicines and treating symptoms and the evidence for that is all around you.

I think you have taken these ideas and recognised a few salient and truthful points, then said to yourself that if it they are correct in these areas then they must be also be correct in these other areas. Then you have taken other things within the overall message as gospel because of the backing that those points seems to give the message.

But IMO it's you who would be well placed to take a step back for a more wholistic view of what is going here and open yourself to the critique people have given to these theories.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Edited by Grapefruit (04/13/20 06:13 PM)

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26598797 - 04/13/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Well if you want to "put your money where your mouth" is ignore all sensible precautions & go volunteer in a hospital where people are dying, and rely on your wholistic, quantum, pure, mind to protect yourself.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26598833 - 04/13/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, protect your body by emanating a field of of psychedelic fractals, and then use telekinesis to warp them into a shield around yourself !
The viral loads will get stuck in the fractals as they impact the shield, and infinitely traverse through fractals leading to alternative universes in the multiverse, rendering you invincible....and contaminating the rest of the multiverse in the process!

The fuck just happen, did I just cure covid19?

       
                                                :gooby:








Jping with ya :heart:


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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/13/20 07:26 PM)

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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26598859 - 04/13/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
.    Seems to me that at the foundation of all these problems, is an insane amount of over population. I grew up in a small town, in the 1950s. I climbed trees, played in woods, the whole town felt safe, there was a lake, an empty field with green grass, a pond, a natural history  museum, and only one small down town area with shops. The first shopping center, mostly one story buildings was a novelty at first. There were no malls anywhere, and no franchised junk food outlets or big box stores. All stores were run by local families - real unique hardware stores, separate lumber yards,  book stores without coffee shops. Parking mostly wasn't a problem.
It was safe for kids to  ride their bikes all over town. There was a natural quality of life and the wonders of nature were part of it. There were both flower & vegetable gardens.
.    It was fun to visit a big city near by, with my parents - but it was obvious, the exciting hustle and bustle was no substitute, for the miracles of the natural world.
.    The birth rate of hunter gatherers, is regulated by the environment, even though humans have no breeding season and are always fertile, because they can't store food, and so on.
.    Many or most animals populations are regulated by a seasonal sexual cycle and/or predation and the struggle to find sufficient food and the vulnerability of offspring, and in the cases of large mammals like elephants the length of gestation.
.    Civilization destroyed the functioning of all these natural mechanisms, and resulted in over population immediately if we define it as degrading the immediate environment, enough to lower the nutritional quality of food, and increase the work necessary to produce it. Marvin Harris books detail how this occurred over and over again in civilization after civilization.
.    After the industrial revolution (tractors) and chemical revolution (chemical fertilizers, accelerating after WWII ), this process became became exponential, with the insane population numbers we have today and the resulting devastation of the planet.
.    It is almost taboo to point this out.  The American dream is to own your own house & have 2.5 kids. But humans obviously cannot sensibly control their own birth rate. To me this is totally obvious. But humans raised in big cities, have reality filters, just as those raised in orthodox religious families have another set of reality filters.
.    Then technology, and capitalist greed gave us factory farming, especially chicken and egg farms. This is where viruses evolve, as many come from birds. And in chicken factory farms there is no sunlight, no proper exercise, and the birds are confined with their poop, which is humid and full of bacteria and viruses. Cattle feed lots also confine animals with their shit. Mad cow disease came from feeding vegetarian browsers, feed that contained as a component dead cows.
.    The evidence is clear that among human follies accelerated virus evolution, and encouraging animal to human transmission, is only one of many.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/pandemics-history-prevention/





Oh yes, I think the most fundamental factor in our numerous crises is indeed a population of almost 8 billion and counting. (I mean just think about it, 8 billion people. My God.) The majority of the environmental, social, economic, political, etc., etc. issues we face -- especially the whole environmental crisis -- is a direct result of a population that went out of any reasonable control over a hundred years ago. With the whole world trying to live with a Western style of living, it absolutely does not work. And look around. It's just too many humans. I'm sure a variety of animal species agree with that.





"Human development reached an important and challenging milestone in 2014. That year, the United Nations announced that more than half of the world’s population lived in urban areas. The news raised questions about issues such as disease control, food production, education, housing, employment, and migration.

Today, 55% of the global population is urbanized, and by 2030 the U.N. projects that 60% of the global population will be urbanized. In the nearly five years since the world discovered this global demographic shift, the number of megacities — defined as cities with populations greater than 10 million — grew from 28 in 2014 to 33 in 2018, more than triple the number in 1990."

.    In other words the majority of humans now suffer from "nature deficit disorder", and have no idea of their connection with the natural world - which is one of the benefits of taking psychedelics in the rural countryside. It reconnects one with understanding the real meaning of: "quality of life", which money cannot buy.
Because of this blindness, of the majority of people, the planet will continue to be trashed. More viruses evolved to become transmissible to humans, and to become more deadly, due to factory farming, where they are fostered, as Michael Greger M.D.'s movie linked to above explains.

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/02/27/the-worlds-33-megacities/
https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/world_cities/largest_cities-world.htm
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=biggest+cities+in+the+world&t=hy&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nature+deficit+disorder&t=h_&ia=web

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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26598876 - 04/13/20 07:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Agreed. There aren't too many people only in sheer numeric terms but also in the fact that each human now wishes as his ideal life to live it out with as flush a red carpet as possible to serve as barrier between his self, his family, and the natural world, quite probably to divorce from the rest of society too. We furnish this carpet by plundering resources from earth and neighbour in whatever way we can.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26598884 - 04/13/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Most people in highly developed nations live like Kings compared to the days of old.  It’s amazing.  The creature comforts of even the most humble household far outweigh a kings in the ancient world, minus the need for working from 9-5 or more or less for many.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26599099 - 04/13/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Of course I am cynical, I am 56 years old, but I am not pessimistic. When shit hits the fan society will move and enemies will become temporary friends for the common good...I did say temporary. I think the overall effect of this will be good for everybody except those who died. This is not a societal breakdown but a trip through the crucible...we will become more efficient and more aware for a bit...but things will slide back as it gets easier. However, this may grant us some time to think and plan and reflect. As for me I am rather enjoying the peace and quiet. Work is more solitary, but as an essential employee I still have to go...Walmart is mostly empty so when I go there with PPE on I can get in and out quick.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26599475 - 04/14/20 03:11 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Well if you want to "put your money where your mouth" is ignore all sensible precautions & go volunteer in a hospital where people are dying, and rely on your wholistic, quantum, pure, mind to protect yourself.




ohk.  i won't question the understanding of medical science again with this crowd.  i apologize.  i am always hesitant to share my actual personal experience, because the topic can't even be broached without being labeled something, and misunderstanding easily ensues. 

my first mistake was in assuming that this topic can be broached and discussed in anything outside of a conspiracy forum.  i apologize for the thread interruption, DQ.

i licked the grocery cart handle the other day at the store, just to make my point to a friend.  of course, there is a question about my intelligence after a licking a grocery cart handle during a pandemic.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26599742 - 04/14/20 08:00 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I don't believe anything you say any more. hahaha.

("go lick a shopping cart" - new shroomery insult to intelligence )


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26599970 - 04/14/20 09:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup: I can get behind that POV.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26615342 - 04/20/20 01:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The one silver lining of the coronavirus emergency is seen when we look at history, and we see that meaningful change is only ever precipitated by a major crisis. Now, that includes both positive and negative change. But the path we have been on in the U.S. has been disastrous, and getting worse all the time. This crisis is the one chance we’ll get to smarten up.

If nothing, or hardly anything, changes as a result of this, I guess you’d have to say we’re getting what we deserve, good and hard. If we institute positive changes, the doing of which is of course in doubt, we’re doing what we’re supposed to be doing. So if Americans squander this opportunity to do right by themselves, Americans are truly worthless and miserable people, it seems to me. It would be unforgivable not to change for the better as a result of this disaster.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26615444 - 04/20/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It really begs the question if this doesn’t do it then what in the hell will? 

It’s likely in all our best interest to figure this out here and now steering the shit show in a more proper direction than to sit on our ass and wait until a truly devastating cataclysmic scenario develops.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26615460 - 04/20/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I agree completely.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26615472 - 04/20/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

basic income + healthcare + air + water...

(education please...)


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26615486 - 04/20/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
basic income + healthcare + air + water...

(education please...)




First shots fired

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26615591 - 04/20/20 02:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I think nationalizing healthcare and establishing a progressive presence in the state with UBI, greater environmental restrictions and so on is a good thing ish.  But I don’t think it attacks the essence of the problem.  It’s basically like trying to put a bandaid on a wound that is pouring blood.  Instead the economy is systemically fucked.  Capitalism can be credited for that.  The only way to correct that fundamentally is a working class revolution.  Democratize the enterprises in the economy by valuing and forming co-ops.  Because rn it’s likely that we have economic dictatorships where the working class is essentially enslaved to the elite capitalists.  Imo this is the greater problem, not the inadequacies of the state which no doubt would be helpful if it wasn’t completely screwed.  I don’t think these 2 problems are exclusive but I give more importance to the democratizing of the economy vs. the progression of the state.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26615636 - 04/20/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

get with the times,  there won't be a working class.

that's the problem and the solution.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26615651 - 04/20/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
get with the times,  there won't be a working class.

that's the problem and the solution.




So the robots are going to come in and take over the economy completely and this won’t involve funding, maintenance etc. and people through a UBI will simply be afforded the basics of life.  Which is what exactly, food, shelter, healthcare?  Defense, courts, policing?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26615910 - 04/20/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

exactly
what should it be like to be a self respecting person 50 years from now.
could we all become students of some subjects or activities we love
maybe turn the 'workplace' into a kind of school affiliated with other schools.

still need doctors, lawyers, actors, and a score of other professions.
but we also need teachers.

what else?

I don't know what's going to happen, some people will work, it's not all robots and wont be either, but the engineering and logistics will minimize human labor which means less work with more people. 

it will be a process.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26616097 - 04/20/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Well I think a robotic plumber is a ways out.  Or a robotic construction laborer.  Or any vast number of skilled labor.  I mean the changes upcoming are basically replacing the fast food cashier with automation.  And other basic administrative tasks, truck driving etc. 

I think there will very much continue to be a working class.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26616829 - 04/21/20 05:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

they wont be working if there is a recession, no new building projects, no new driving...
plumbers etc are special guilds that fix degenerating services, and they will be expensive, too expensive for the "unemployed"


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26617404 - 04/21/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Indeed, indeed.  I was picturing a scenario of a fully integrated and competent robot plumber.  One that could be programmed in various ways like with or without a sense of humor for example.  It would probably cost extra for that and wouldn’t be affordable during a downturn to say the least.  People would have to go with the straightforward just here to do a job robot plumber.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26617447 - 04/21/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

yah, even when it is possible to have Data (from Star Trek TNG) fix your sink, it will be more likely to get Jason and Sons(, plumbers and pipe fitters) to come over and mess around under the counter.

the big question is how to pay the piper


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26617463 - 04/21/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

With UBI.  At least until apples begin to cost 500$ a piece and the government printed monthly check doesn’t go as far as it once did.

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26617837 - 04/21/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I’ll be printing apples by the time the US has UBI that covers the cost of living


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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26618179 - 04/21/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
rahz

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26618342 - 04/21/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The problem with the US is not that it is an Empire, but that it is an Empire that continues to pretend it is just a simple old republic. If Rome was any indication, the reality is that the US is going to move into an explicitly imperial stage.

What is more likely to happen is the failure of globalization will morph into the triumph of multi-polar imperial regimes. There will likely be a conflict with Asia, like the Mithridatic wars, despite peoples trepidation and belief that an Asian war would be prosecuted similar to Vietnam, it will likely not go very well at first but will adjust. China may be a sleeping elephant, but America is a sleeping Honeybadger, and it's likely its conduct will redefine perfidy for all time.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: RedPirateRoberts] * 1
    #26618361 - 04/21/20 05:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I think the notion of Asia being a direct and serious threat to the US is overblown for the most part.  They have so much to deal with that I can’t really see them contesting us in a way that’s not trade, intelligence, accidental/natural,  or covert in nature.  The geographic location of the country on the world map is literally huge and cumbersome from the point of view of having to govern the place sufficiently and adequately, not to mention it’s surrounded by other independent actors on the world stage with their own interests, some of which are indebted to and allied with the US.

And our military bases, allied military bases, countries, shared economic investments and essential commodities.  Plus, these days are in large part defined by geopolitics and international trade.  The longer it goes on the more intertwined and messy the strings get, and suddenly what was obviously our shit and their shit begins to be harder to define, and so old lines have to be replaced and drawn with new lines..


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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/21/20 05:49 PM)

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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26619600 - 04/22/20 09:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
I’ll be printing apples by the time the US has UBI that covers the cost of living




Not if Andrew Yang has anything to say about it.  Get you some Asian persuasion.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26619904 - 04/22/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

can you print organic apples?


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26619977 - 04/22/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The American empire will never end. You don't know how good your government is. Do you know how many massive forces are competing within the United States at the moment? The main ones are Russian and Chinese influence and then the Rothchilds, and many other families, then you have the actual government which is massively capable and controls massive domestic resources, space and the military. The Russians and Chinese are encouraging destruction of the main demographic of the middle class American dream: "white people", along with the Rothchilds, who are bitter for the Holocaust. They are going full impact, all of them, because the American government has more or less sealed their hegemony in the world for as long as the human enterprise exists.

The US empire spends twice as much as the rest of the world on the military on its own, minus China, and I'm telling you now, those Chinese military photos and parades are CGI and are doctored.

Do you realise how far ahead your government is of the rest of the world? There's probably already a way to shoot down nukes in space, but they're not going to publicize it.

The reason America is so fucked up is because it is set for endless world hegemony and hegemony of space, so Russia and China and a massive chunk of the corporate sector are doing everything they can to destroy the meritocratic and capitalist dream, through encouraging Leftist propaganda that rests almost solely on white guilt which is in the collective unconscious.

Right now, is the battle for the future. The Government is going to win, Russia and China and the corporate gangsters are just panicking.

Good luck USA! The main hope for a free humanity.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: lostintimenspc] * 1
    #26620071 - 04/22/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Only a dyed in the wool American could have such sentiments.

I've never seen anybody from any other country talk in that way about the country they came from.

America. Is. The. Greatest.

Oddly enough, a good two thirds of the world would disagree.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26620221 - 04/22/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

ahhh propaganda!


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26620493 - 04/22/20 04:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It depends on your perspective. If you have contact with gov you realise that the politicians don't actually run the country and your state of mind and your friends represent simply one fixed perspective that could be as far flung as a hospitalized mushroom expert. :wink: :heart::heart:


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Re: End of Empire [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26621059 - 04/22/20 09:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
a good two thirds of the world would disagree.




That’s because a good two thirds of the world are shithole countries. :smile:

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Shr00mEater] * 2
    #26621225 - 04/22/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I've been to a few of them and found them the most wonderful and interesting places.

By comparison, this place is like a huge, boring shopping mall filled with swathes of arrogant and entitled consumers.

The values I see espoused by most here belong in the toilet. The 'head' of the country is a pathalogical liar and moron. Many are deeply unhappy.

I wouldn't call it a shithole, because that would be mean and judgemental of me, but it looks nothing like what it seems the dyed in the wool Americans seem to think it looks like to me.

It's a sad place, over all. Can't tell that to a true patriot though. Observations that suggest 'it's not the greatest' or anything that can be pervceived as a criticism, no matter how slight, are met with hostility - certainly not the 'freedom of speech' I keep hearing about.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26621371 - 04/23/20 02:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Let's be real though. I've only traveled to one improvershied country, and fault of the west or not, India is a shithole. Especially places like Mumbai and Delhi. And my god the totalitarian political proganda machine they have over there in a supposedly democratic country is completely off the rails. I'd give me right arm and probably a lot more not to have the ill fortune of being born there.

America has it's own problems of course and I'm not a fan of it when people use the fact that other countries have it worse to ignore systemic problems of a different nature in their own country. As if everything is just gravy where they are.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26621526 - 04/23/20 05:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It's a purely and completely insane view.

When the A.I. will not want us around anymore? Hal, Matrix are no more reflective of reality than other non real things.

No good from this? Earth has a chance to breathe.

I cannot shudder to think what goes on in a brain like this.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: AZZI]
    #26621580 - 04/23/20 06:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Is your post directed toward me? Because I am really not sure what  to make of it.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26622091 - 04/23/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
The American empire will never end. ....




IMO the following seems fairly clear:

.    Seems pretty obvious at this point that the whole civilized world is interconnected.

.    Seems pretty obvious the whole world (as far as quality of human life is concerned) is Already FUBAR, ...between Covid-19, pollution (including pesticide residues ( arsenic in white rice & fish too toxic to eat regularly (just 2 examples)), climate change, continual warfare (now with killing from remotely controlled drones & who knows what next), acidification of the oceans, the majority of the world's population becoming urbanized, number of people on the planet without germ free drinking water, & wealth inequality similar to the dark ages on a global scale.
.      The above are just some of the facts as regards the external world. The sad statistics on human internal worlds include more sad facts:
surprising statistics on mental health (aka serious psychological issues or suffering are not uncommon), IQ (it is on a bell curve & so half of folks are on the "wrong" side of the apex),  & lack of good education for most.
.      It would appear that basic morality is also on some sort of bell curve if one simply considers some facts we all already know, such as: The Crime statistics (including human trafficking, child porn, & syndicates such as the mafia), The millions who work in jobs completely lacking any shred of compassion, such as for cigarette companies, for the IRS, weapons development (including bio & chemical weapons), the alcohol industry (just look at the health statistics if you think this is prudish), manufacture & marketing of meth & fentanyl, & various degrees of corruption in ALL governments & etc..

.    So as many of these problems are unsolvable, and are in fact likely to become worse, & all countries are now interconnected, there is no exemption for the USA.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26622145 - 04/23/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Are the powers that be of the new world order using the virus to intentionally “Thin the herd?” over a period of the next decade?
Certain genetic bio markers might go untagged, or there may be a vaccine or antidote type deal secretly stashed for only the chosen few.

Maybe it was a conspiracy all in the works, and Donald Trump was a piece of the puzzle, allowing for this dilemma to go on unnoticed for its true intent, with the public to distracted and scared by Trump and the a virus and Each-other and one another’s neighbors around the world.
Maybe it wasn’t just China, or the US, Maybe it was pure nature adapting to the situation humanity has brought forth for itself on Earth, or maybe it was a Bio Weapon made by contract by some powerful group that none know the members identities of.  And the pieces of the puzzle necessary for it to happen, had to be laid carefully over the last 10 or 20 years in the making with a collective effort by many world powers.

I like to pretend that’ the aforementioned could be the case when I’m bored.  Mainly because conspiracy is so damn fun.  But I don’t believe a word of it, I’ll stick to suspending my  final judgment indefinitely in this case.


Until years down the road, when the herd is slimmed, a vaccine confidently surfaces, or all the targeted genetic markers of certain individuals or populations have been wiped out or dwindled down enough.  Or the virus dies down on its own, having set the stage perfectly for a new, new world order...

Dun dun dun!!!


:awehorny:

:rofl:


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Edited by The Blind Ass (04/23/20 11:38 AM)

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26622180 - 04/23/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

.  If anyone rereads the very abbreviated list of world problems, I posted above, and also considers the causes also very abbreviated in the list, above...I fail to see the need for any conspiracy theories, to account for the mess civilized humans have made of their word, for hundreds or thousands of years.
.  In fact, paradoxically, I consider conspiracy theories a form of hope. Why? Because the attitude, is: 'now that we know what is wrong' ( or "now that we have caught the dirty bastards that did this to us"), we can fix it (or punish them and then fix it).
.    I think there are no remedies possible in the external world. At first this sounds pessimistic, but consider that ( & I'm not religious) what a famous guy said (who is respected by many, but followed by few, (St. Francis being an exception)) "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's..."

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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26622197 - 04/23/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Get your tin foil hats out bois. So nice to be presented with such a plethora of opportunities to don it. Mine is no longer sitting in the cuboard gathering dust, I have it within easy reach in pride of place on the mantelpiece nowadays. :dancer:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26622216 - 04/23/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

More like Tin foil masks bois...

:rollsafe:


:awehigh:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26622247 - 04/23/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If we can't die laughing, tin foil hats will have to do. Anything is better than facing reality.

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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26657818 - 05/08/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Anything is better than facing reality.





pretty much

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Tulipslave]
    #26657975 - 05/08/20 05:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

making space for reality is the best
you can sink right into it.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26658026 - 05/08/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Relax right into it


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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26669626 - 05/13/20 10:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Us Politics is:
A circus of narcissistic psychopathic greedy puppets,
Who's strings are being pulled by Machiavelli, who just smoked some datura,
To confuse and entertain an audience of sleep walkers who have just seemingly woken up,
from dreams of, Disney Land, "professional wrestling", The Jerry Springer show, shopping sprees, being the most liked person  on facebook, with the most popular selfies, and gorging on junk food.

While Guantanamo Bay, The Bay of Pigs, Oliver North, and all the other thousands of traces of reality are instantly  dismissed, or diluted, and then forgotten, as "our leader" sells us tickets to the show that will "make America Great Again". Then the lights begin to dim for the show is about to begin...after all....Its not healthy or normal to stay awake for too long.

Yes Siree, A truly great Empire is about to fall.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26669646 - 05/13/20 11:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

:biggestfan:


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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26670165 - 05/14/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

as it falls will Canada slide south?
not much supporting us here either.


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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26670182 - 05/14/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If they fall I hope whatever emerges from it takes Mexico, the US, and Canada and combines the 3 into one big fam. More than currently with nafta/usmca.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26670291 - 05/14/20 09:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I want my guaranteed income with dignity and education and a flying car


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26676993 - 05/17/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Nothing said about the CIA is true. They are brilliant, capable and usually beautiful people.

Trump isn't just some guy that popped up...

People wanted him in there to fix the country.

Manifest Destiny is a real thing. There is a real force pulling America into the future, and the private sector and Russia are doing everything they can do to stop it, because they're insane, mostly.

Most of the world is insane. I would say undiagnosed schizophrenias are in excess of 50% of the world population.

If you're the son of an Englishman, like me, Manifest Destiny can get to you too, living in Australia, which is like a North European America as far as government and society goes.

Just think, you've got the Roman Empire which as far as I know was Germanic, then they take over England and collapse, then England takes over most of the world before collapse, leaving its colonies in America to the newly formed American state, then Germany has a shot at it, America shoots it down, now America is so far on top it's world hegemony more or less, I mean somewhere in here, there's a group of people or a spirit that is destined to take hegemony and then take us into space...


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LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26677048 - 05/17/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

space force sounds a bit like space farts


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26677435 - 05/17/20 06:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The force pulling America into the future are the projections of America itself.  No reason to pretend as if it’s anything greater or more ethereal.  “America first”, “exceptionalism” are internal states that are projected outwards.  However, America has screwed itself externally through various economic and statist movements.  “America first” and “exceptionalism”, therefore, are beginning to get weak in the legs.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26677588 - 05/17/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

waiting for the face plant so we can get on with our lives.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26677775 - 05/17/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well I think our response to this crisis might be the face plant.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26681070 - 05/19/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

.  Anyone who reads some Alfred W. McCoy, or books by Chalmers Johnson, or Christopher Hedges, can straighten out their thinking on these matters.

.  I suppose there are some other choices like Noam Chomsky, but he seems too dense, to be very readable.

.  But most likely those subscribing to the views referred to above, don't read much anyway.

.    Hence, as is often the case, having a mission, to educate others is usually pointless, unless a meaningful fee has been charged first, and unfortunately, often even then homework or grades or black and white belts, or some sort of reinforcement is required.

.  Therefore I feel Gregor Mendel who "discovered / explored genetics", and was ignored by the world and forgotten, (until the laws of genetics were rediscovered much later), was yet a lucky man as he nurtured his own curiosity, loved to learn for its own sake, & kept his mind open.
.    He was also amazingly persistent and independent, definitely a cool dude, although he was also an Augustinian friar .

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26681145 - 05/19/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

so if you come up with some reasonable theory, write it down, the world may become ready for it in a few centuries, but don't push it into the www of fake news, only the loonies will latch on.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26681604 - 05/19/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Depends on if you want to raise Watermelons or loonies. Seems Fox news, & AM talk radio and the POTUS, like to raise loonies.

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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26682977 - 05/20/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Depends on if you want to raise Watermelons or loonies. Seems Fox news, & AM talk radio and the POTUS, like to raise loonies.



If the high, as we have called them, are to keep their places permanently - then the prevailing mental condition must be controlled insanity.
--George Orwell, Ninteen Eighty-Four


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26683066 - 05/20/20 11:02 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

hey, talk nice, here in Canada, loonies means cold hard cash.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26687150 - 05/22/20 03:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Re: DQs original post ..."...This is the long-awaited official end of Empire. Thoughts?..."....

All Empires end.

Everyone at the apex of an Empire's timeline, pays this no more mind than the tobacco smoker, -  sure that they are the exception to the lung cancer statistics, if they even consider the issue.

That this is now a topic here and elsewhere shows we are way past the apex.

That population size, pollution, & climate change consequences are now, all unimaginable, and that world interconnection, is now total, means that this time around its not just an isolated Nation about to suffer the consequences of decades of follies.

Even if  a Covid-19 vaccine is found soon, the factors that are at work, seem very likely to change little, with the result that continued decline world wide, of quality of life, for most, is highly likely. History shows that this is not some unexpected anomaly, only the scale is different this time around.
And of course on the larger time scale, - the one  before history, extinctions are perhaps even way more common that the fall of human empires. To call such events "dystopian", seems to me to be just another bit of human preferences overlooking / sugar coating the total indifference that is contained in the phrase: "cause and effect".

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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #26687747 - 05/22/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

truth being we do not know what will happen.

if we copy south korea then it's all gonna be pretty good soon, and corona may be cause for coronation.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: End of Empire [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26689673 - 05/23/20 05:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I vote yes!

sounds wonderful!


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Invisibledoolhoofd
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Re: End of Empire [Re: laughingdog]
    #28109872 - 12/23/22 12:20 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
It was pretty exposed already ( animation by Steve Cutts) :



You forgot the best one: "HAPPINESS"



Steve also has his own website showcasing some equally brilliant illustrations:

https://www.stevecutts.com/illustration.html


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Penny: 'What are you and Professor FussyFace up to tonight?'
Leonard: "Star Wars on Blu-ray."
Penny: 'Haven't you seen that movie like, a thousand times?'
Leonard: "Not on Blu-ray. Only twice on Blu-ray."
Penny: 'Oh, Leonard...'
Leonard: "I know. It's high-resolution sadness."
- The Big Bang Theory, S07E09

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Re: End of Empire [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #28109889 - 12/23/22 12:30 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
Most of the world is insane. I would say undiagnosed schizophrenias are in excess of 50% of the world population.



Art by Robert Crumb:



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Penny: 'What are you and Professor FussyFace up to tonight?'
Leonard: "Star Wars on Blu-ray."
Penny: 'Haven't you seen that movie like, a thousand times?'
Leonard: "Not on Blu-ray. Only twice on Blu-ray."
Penny: 'Oh, Leonard...'
Leonard: "I know. It's high-resolution sadness."
- The Big Bang Theory, S07E09

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