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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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End of Empire * 1
    #26564078 - 03/28/20 07:56 PM (4 years, 23 hours ago)

The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564083 - 03/28/20 07:59 PM (4 years, 23 hours ago)

One thing you guys have going for you is low population density, Maybe you'll get a lucky break in all of this and it won't hit you so hard.

If you do get hit hard though I have very little faith in your government to support it's people financially or in terms of healthcare needs.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Offlinebw86
Doesn't play well with others

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 5,959
Loc: 7b
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564125 - 03/28/20 08:31 PM (4 years, 22 hours ago)

meh...we are all gonna pretend everything is fine a a few weeks.
It probably will be.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,357
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564141 - 03/28/20 08:36 PM (4 years, 22 hours ago)

I do find it ironic that the “great beast” or “evil” that may finally take down the mighty American empire a good few notches is,in all actuality, a microscopic creature like thing, ie. A virus.

The USSR and the Red Scare and all of that jazz from decades past that instilled fear in the mind of so many of my country men can’t really compare to the potential and actual damage currently being done.

On another note, I do hope we come out of this the better, dying or being debilitated by a virus like this one is horrible.  Living with reduced lung function is another kind of hell, and over half the adult population in the US is either, and in all combined up to half of us, either have diabetes, coronary heart disease, hypertension, and respiratory illnesses, and that’s just the adults. 

That group is considered high risk when infected due to their conditions, and seeing as the virus has a roughly 10% mortality rate in the total numbers so far accounted for ( mostly meaning only those who have been tested in hospitals and a few other means) the number crunching ive done is huge.  It came to about 2,750,000 people in the us dying - if the current rate of infection continues and a few others things remain the same.  Seeing as my calculation did not include a few crucial changes in some of the variables over time, I can only hope it won’t be worse , I hope I’m a fool and very wrong, but in 6 months to a  years time we will finally have a clue.

Until then, I hope the Us and the rest of the world hangs on, fights for what’s good p,a and stays well and safe as best one can.
I am afraid for much of my atomic and extended family , at least the few who have a heart condition or something else or are 65+y.o.
But what’s almost equally disturbing is knowing the abuses that will take place in big business and government and military during the duration of this pandemic.  It’s easy to get away with a lot when freedoms are suppressed (for better or worse) , and unimaginable emergency powers are granted to higher government and military officials. 

I’m lucky, my family is lucky in all the right ways, but I know that’s the exception in these cases.  This virus will change much of the world, this I know .


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 08:42 PM)

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564147 - 03/28/20 08:38 PM (4 years, 22 hours ago)

I'm not thinking most of Europe is fairing any better. It seems to be a Western mindset of being above it all, along with the frequency of international travel. I finally saw someone besides me wearing a mask today.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26564169 - 03/28/20 08:47 PM (4 years, 22 hours ago)

It’s not just a western thing,  its by nature a global thing, being a pandemic is just that, and with the past few decades of globalization making much of the world well, global, lots of the high risk factors are now also global- granted their is a variance, but in all much more homogenized than ever in history.

Also, much of Asia  has been decimated just like the west and because of much of some of the powerhouses in Asia’s have a form of government that can do things on a whim unchecked by the outside world, I fear for what happens to our brothers And sisters over there.

China has falsely reported almost close to zero % growth of the virus in terms of prev and incidences this last month, at least in official capacity.  It’s quite literally impossible for the numbers reported by the Chinese government to be what they are in the last 25 days of reporting.

Literally impossible.  Also, many areas have suddenly been cut off from phone and internet services, in places that had the highest rate of - dense- numbers of those who had contracted the illness.  It’s incredibly worrying for those who have friends and family in there.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 08:50 PM)

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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,245
Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564198 - 03/28/20 09:06 PM (4 years, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?




I think the health system will collapse and masks will come off when the bodies start piling up on the streets, especially if Easter Sunday services where held in churches across the US.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26564209 - 03/28/20 09:14 PM (4 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
One thing you guys have going for you is low population density, Maybe you'll get a lucky break in all of this and it won't hit you so hard.

If you do get hit hard though I have very little faith in your government to support it's people financially or in terms of healthcare needs.





The reason our official population density is so low is: everything west of the Mississippi River except California. However, like all modern countries, all of our cities -- large, medium and small -- are interconnected by airports and highways, so most of the population is indeed vulnerable. I think we'll be hit pretty hard.

I don't have any faith in our system's capabilities, either. Economically, politically, medically, sociologically, etc., our vulnerabilities are, well, now becoming very obvious. If we come out of this thing in one piece, I hope at least that the general public will not settle for business as usual. But then, my fellow Americans have disappointed me before, repeatedly.

In any case, there won't be much anyone can do if we go into a depression or deep recession, which seems inevitable at this point, possibly for the whole world. It's an unprecedented time.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564211 - 03/28/20 09:19 PM (4 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
It’s not just a western thing,  its by nature a global thing, being a pandemic is just that, and with the past few decades of globalization making much of the world well, global, lots of the high risk factors are now also global- granted their is a variance, but in all much more homogenized than ever in history.

Also, much of Asia  has been decimated just like the west and because of much of some of the powerhouses in Asia’s have a form of government that can do things on a whim unchecked by the outside world, I fear for what happens to our brothers And sisters over there.

China has falsely reported almost close to zero % growth of the virus in terms of prev and incidences this last month, at least in official capacity.  It’s quite literally impossible for the numbers reported by the Chinese government to be what they are in the last 25 days of reporting.

Literally impossible.  Also, many areas have suddenly been cut off from phone and internet services, in places that had the highest rate of - dense- numbers of those who had contracted the illness.  It’s incredibly worrying for those who have friends and family in there.




China's numbers may be off, but they have experience with outbreaks. South Korea had excellent response time and tested more people per capita than anyone as far as I know. Singapore has done very well with low death/infection ratio. Meanwhile Spring Break was raging in the US when everyone knew it was a problem. And the 6 foot rule? People blatantly disregard it around here. It's as if they think it's just an exercise or a dream. Buy more toilet paper! I'm sure it's being taken more seriously in major cities. When bodies start to drop here I suspect then it will be taken seriously. I'm in NC btw.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,357
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26564220 - 03/28/20 09:30 PM (4 years, 21 hours ago)

I’m in Nc too ( in the triangle) , but you seem to parrot very vague generalizations about our entire country.
Spring break going wild..got it, but do you truly believe the rest of the world simply shut themselves inside and stopped their normal lives immediately upon news of the virus? We are referring to people, all of the same species.  The difference is not as big as is supposed.
Countries that had the experience, ability, and infrastructure and materials set up in hold before the outbreak naturally responded more properly. 

Korea’s own gov and economy are largely based on the US, however they are quite an efficient producer in materials that are needed globally, not to mention their proximity to countries that are mass manufacturers for much of the rest of the world- thus giving them easier access to materials , support, and a mor salient alarm of what was taking place in the outbreaks beginning. 

Korea has a fraction of the Us population, but their resources are spread much more evenly than the us.

I think I know hat your saying, but I just need remind you of the hundred plus countries that also have portions of the population that did not heed an early morning.  Globalization is the biggest culprit, tons of countries are interdependent on each other in so many ways- those lines of connection are structural and functional and the main culprit .

The us has had experience as well with diseases, never think it hasn’t.

Btw, were you at in NC?


Also, idiotic politicians downplayed the virus in our country before the president declared an official state of national emergency, until then a large portion of the pop went about normally, even my sister who’s in her 30#flew to New Orleans for her friend’s bachelorette party like an idiot.- even though both our parents are doctors, myself study in research, and another sibling in med school.

Think that has more to do with IQ


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 09:35 PM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,357
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564228 - 03/28/20 09:37 PM (4 years, 21 hours ago)

Maybe I’ve been to isolated over the years and in doing so have overestimated my countrymen’s general intelligence,  maybe your right.  But still .


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564235 - 03/28/20 09:42 PM (4 years, 21 hours ago)

Maybe I'm being unfair and it's just the level of international travel but the US and Europe are getting the worst of it, it seems. I'm about an hour North of Charlotte.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Re: End of Empire [Re: Rahz]
    #26564278 - 03/28/20 10:13 PM (4 years, 20 hours ago)

All good Rahz, fellow Carolinian.  Our family cringed when my sis insisted on going to n.orleans for a party,  it that was a couple of days before trump declared the pandemic a national emergency , so by the time she was there and the party in full swing,  it was just a matter of riding it out , meanwhile, the day before she left nc, she came by my parents place (were I went to ride things out) and my mother was cancelling her flight to Mexico, a trip she had planned 6 months in advance to see her old classmates from college ( that whole get together thing 30-40 years later after graduation thing people do).  So I suppose it is a mix.

My bros med school is cancelled thus far,
And half my classes were cancelled (mostly sciences requiring the use of a lab daily), and the other half are now online, but even the on line ones are screwy because the profs had little experience setting up the software required to do so, so right now it’s really chaotic.
My rents still work, and since I’m in the tri I do to, hospitals and nursing homes mainly.  So far about 4 people have gotten sick enough to were they needed testing in the homes, but since the state hasn’t given us adequate testing equipment the best we can do is use multiple tests to rule out Covid-19,  luckily those 4 were pos for a specific flu strain. Our current tests cannot see if they have it, we can only test to be moderately sure they don’t...how fucked is that? We got emails saying we’d have testing capability literally 28 days ago , and nothing yet...
Better be here this week , because in wake county alone we have 200 tested positive for covid, and those are only because they were critically ill and in a major hospital that they were able to be tested specifically for the virus.  We definitely do not even have 25,000 tests in the whole of NC...fact.  And look at its pop, and we’re e a pretty wealthy area of the country.  I would estimate less than 10,000k tests,( more like a  few thousand) much less.
Hats why were all on lock down, because if it spreads incredibly without even knowing the reality of the rate we could seriously crippple ourselves for the next couple decades.

I fear the corporate big wigs and politicians most, their power grew massively when things ere declared a state of emergency.  One email we got was about a hospital on the west coast, their stockholders did not approve of the physicians and nps and emts, pa’s, and others wearing mask at all times while walking through the halls and while seeing certain patients....why?  Because in terms of optics , the holders felt it reflected that the hospital was dangerous, and thus would cause anxiety to paying patients ( their customers)...

Thing is, people use resp and surgical masks all the time in the hospital, to avoid smells, to avoid disease, to not spread it as well..
But at the time when its most logical to use one, it literally gets banned?!  The staff was going insane, almost started a riot... cause
If they don’t protect themselves, who the hell will treat and run the hospital and take care of the sick and dying? Especially if the sick and dying become sick and dying from the virus or become vectors for it (those with mild symptoms or asymptomatic yet still carry a virulent load that’s still transmissible )...  so,  I really hope that kind of idiotic “bottom line.- dollar” type of thinking is not legally effable / binding during this time, because we need everyone who is actually able to , to do all they can (professionals in medicine).

And for gods sake, we need actual fucking tests,  we can’t even begin to get an accurate account of the prevalence rate and incident rate of the virus in or population or the world,because the fucking tests are not made yet.  They are sparse , mostly major general hospitals have them only, or if your very wealthy with connections or just have connections or are military base.

The proposed number of cases in the us and the world are not actual reflections on real amount of total infected, in fact, it’s fraction.

If we magically had every human tested overnight, the numbers would reflect a monstrous increase.

So please, make sure you have food, water, and money, medicines and equipment and other things needed for atlleast a few months.

Regulated against bacterial and viral pathogens masks and gloves etc.

Mark my words, unless the world is stupidly and profoundly lucky, this will last the rest of the year-

The US does not shut down major businesses and basically its economy on a whim, or a lie, this is a pandemic, it’s fucking serious people......I’ll say that much for now


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/28/20 10:22 PM)

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Invisiblepineninja
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Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564317 - 03/28/20 11:05 PM (4 years, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The COVID-19 coronavirus has fully exposed the U.S. system. We’ll never be able to have even the slightest pretension of being any kind of “great” country after this disaster. This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?




The world will change the whole system is being exposed.
A shift will come and it wont just be the states.

We either turn on each other or we dont.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Invisiblecez
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26564326 - 03/28/20 11:16 PM (4 years, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
This is the long-awaited official end of Empire.

Thoughts?



Official end says you. 

Which country is handling this situation gracefully?

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Invisiblecez
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26564338 - 03/28/20 11:36 PM (4 years, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
One thing you guys have going for you is low population density, Maybe you'll get a lucky break in all of this and it won't hit you so hard.

If you do get hit hard though I have very little faith in your government to support it's people financially or in terms of healthcare needs.





The reason our official population density is so low is: everything west of the Mississippi River except California. However, like all modern countries, all of our cities -- large, medium and small -- are interconnected by airports and highways, so most of the population is indeed vulnerable. I think we'll be hit pretty hard.

I don't have any faith in our system's capabilities, either. Economically, politically, medically, sociologically, etc., our vulnerabilities are, well, now becoming very obvious. If we come out of this thing in one piece, I hope at least that the general public will not settle for business as usual. But then, my fellow Americans have disappointed me before, repeatedly.

In any case, there won't be much anyone can do if we go into a depression or deep recession, which seems inevitable at this point, possibly for the whole world. It's an unprecedented time.




“Not settle for business as usual.”  What should we do instead comrade? 

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OfflineCountHTML
Stranger
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/24/18
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Loc: Maine
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: End of Empire [Re: cez] * 1
    #26564403 - 03/29/20 12:50 AM (4 years, 18 hours ago)

US is falling. There may be hope for it but I think this would require re-consolidation around a new model. The biggest issue it ran into was too many vested interests with incentives against progress in an environment with very high stakes. The "gated institutional narrative" as Weinstein calls it is collapsing--traditional media, academia, etcetera. The mirage of the 50s, 60s, that sense of interminable growth has met its end and the charade is up at this point.

What's coming next? Sense-making seems irreparably damaged. Even in the midst of the pandemic there is partisan bickering and dogmatic support for the incumbent regardless of how he handles/mishandles the situation. Under sufficient stress or duress, rational thinking is supplanted by just a mess of conspiratorial, dogmatic or superstitious thinking depending on personal inclination. These things signal the end of a civilization's life cycle. It eats itself from within. Invaders are merely opportunists.

Self-terminating system. It is certainly not pleasurable to watch the American experiment erode like this. I think many Americans take it for granted, the material ease and relatively good quality of life (unless you're one of the growing number of paupers). There is hope something may emerge on the other side but it won't be the same as before.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: End of Empire [Re: CountHTML] * 1
    #26564418 - 03/29/20 01:26 AM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

CountHTML said:
US is falling. There may be hope for it but I think this would require re-consolidation around a new model. The biggest issue it ran into was too many vested interests with incentives against progress in an environment with very high stakes. The "gated institutional narrative" as Weinstein calls it is collapsing--traditional media, academia, etcetera. The mirage of the 50s, 60s, that sense of interminable growth has met its end and the charade is up at this point.

What's coming next? Sense-making seems irreparably damaged. Even in the midst of the pandemic there is partisan bickering and dogmatic support for the incumbent regardless of how he handles/mishandles the situation. Under sufficient stress or duress, rational thinking is supplanted by just a mess of conspiratorial, dogmatic or superstitious thinking depending on personal inclination. These things signal the end of a civilization's life cycle. It eats itself from within. Invaders are merely opportunists.

Self-terminating system. It is certainly not pleasurable to watch the American experiment erode like this. I think many Americans take it for granted, the material ease and relatively good quality of life (unless you're one of the growing number of paupers). There is hope something may emerge on the other side but it won't be the same as before.




A concise, yet prescient voice on the times at hand for the US.  It will evolve-  but not with ease, the old guard will go down fighting all the way, what comes from its ashes nobody knows, but evolution begets adaptation to actual circumstances and conditions, so there is good to come from this.  This much is so.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/29/20 01:28 AM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,357
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: End of Empire [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26564420 - 03/29/20 01:27 AM (4 years, 17 hours ago)

Damn, I could plant that quote on city hall.  :micdrop:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: End of Empire [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26564485 - 03/29/20 03:48 AM (4 years, 15 hours ago)

Here in the UK seems to me like mostly everyone is self isolating and following the 2m rule now, listening to government advice even in my small town. There are queues for the supermarkets and people are being asked to buy only what they need. We don't have masks or enough testing kits to go around yet but our government seems to be trying to get them on the ground.

We don't have huge industry here so many are able to work from home. Workers who can't are being promised 80% pay and the self employed are getting something although there is a continual debate over how much they should get and in what form. This has come in spite of the fact that our government is currently conservative.

It's all very up in the air as to what's really going on and how long this will take to blow over. No one really knows anything for sure it seems. So we are playing it by ear and for the most part following government advice. As people have said this is the first crisis of this kind to hit the UK so the confusion over how to act in the face of it is understandable.

India is going to be absolutely ravaged by the virus as far as I can tell, they are packed in like sardines and largely homeless. Hopefully despite the death toll the country will come out the better for it. As that place would really be a bad place to come from these days.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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