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InvisibleAsclepius
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Books On Crossing Strains
    #26563904 - 03/28/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Preferably ones that teach not only the proper techniques and what sort of equipment is needed, although this is important, but also the science behind it.  Know of any good ones? It would be greatly appreciated.




~ Thank you!


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InvisibleStrainsfordaze


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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Asclepius] * 1
    #26564021 - 03/28/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Mushroom biology concise basic and current developments
Miles
Chang


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InvisibleAsclepius
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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Strainsfordaze]
    #26564048 - 03/28/20 07:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you, brother!  :raisemyglass:


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InvisibleStrainsfordaze


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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Asclepius]
    #26564051 - 03/28/20 07:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

You’re welcome.


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Offlinestoogie
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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Strainsfordaze]
    #26565249 - 03/29/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hey,

Interested in these books too so will check them out. If this relates to serial dilution then there are some great video's on YT. I'm wondering whether you'd do serial dilution for both strains, find the best dilutions and then introduce the agar from one plate to another to get them to cross? If anyone can give a brief summary that would be great - otherwise will have a read up. Thank you


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InvisibleStrainsfordaze


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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: stoogie]
    #26565422 - 03/29/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well...  in order for a recombination of genes amongst most basidiomycetes, 2 compatible hyphae must fuse to create a secondary mycelium which allows for nuclear migration that creates a dikaryotic condition that undergoes plasmogamy, karyogamy, and then meiosis.
With that being said I would just do a swab of each strains spores to the same agar plate.


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InvisibleAsclepius
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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Strainsfordaze]
    #26565912 - 03/29/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but, wouldn't spores of the same strain germinate with each other, if introduced to the same agar plate, unless there was only one spore from each strain that would allow for a successful cross? I hope what I wrote makes sense.  And what would the success rate of something like that be -- 25% or so? I still have to do some more reading on this topic, obviously.


Edit: Are you saying the mycelium from each strain fuse together on the same agar plate?  If so, how would you know which part of that mycelium would be a viable sample to grow a cross strain, and would the fruit of that cross strain produce spores?  That also begs the question of how to stabilize the cross strain.  Would it be through growing multiple generations of fruits and using spores from the fruits of those subsequent grows to do so? 


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Edited by Asclepius (03/29/20 07:07 PM)


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InvisibleStrainsfordaze


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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Asclepius] * 1
    #26566000 - 03/29/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah they would germinate with each other if swabbed far apart. Ideally I would do them in an S pattern then an opposite S pattern with the other. You could determine clamp connection with a microscope. It would be a gamble if hyphal anastomosis would occur between the opposite strains.

No, I’m not saying 2 different mycelium fuse together on the same agar plate, that would mean that there would be 2 sets of secondary mycelium and typically nuclear migration occurs between the spores germlings not established mycelium.

Stabilization of a cross strain would be done from multiple generations of isolation of particle properties you are looking to stabilize. It varies but 6-7 would be safe to insure a stable cross.

I’m kinda drunk so maybe someone can explain it better.


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InvisibleAsclepius
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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Strainsfordaze]
    #26566061 - 03/29/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

No, that's a great explanation!  Thanks again!


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Offlinestoogie
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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Asclepius]
    #26566298 - 03/30/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hello,

You got that biology nailed strainfordaze... interesting reading your description and seeing how it can be applied to cross breeding and developing a strain.

This is a video i found useful in terms of serial dilution, it is more for breeding from a spore print rather than cross breeding but still may be of interest.


This is a thread on breeding between strains although is not discussing using agar... from my limited understanding doing the work on agar sounds preferable. https://www.rollitup.org/t/mushroom-hybrid-technique.513376/

Will be interested to follow the rest of the discussion and hear about your results if you have a go


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Invisibletramalot
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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: Strainsfordaze]
    #26566677 - 03/30/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Strainsfordaze said:
Yeah they would germinate with each other if swabbed far apart. Ideally I would do them in an S pattern then an opposite S pattern with the other. You could determine clamp connection with a microscope. It would be a gamble if hyphal anastomosis would occur between the opposite strains.

No, I’m not saying 2 different mycelium fuse together on the same agar plate, that would mean that there would be 2 sets of secondary mycelium and typically nuclear migration occurs between the spores germlings not established mycelium.

Stabilization of a cross strain would be done from multiple generations of isolation of particle properties you are looking to stabilize. It varies but 6-7 would be safe to insure a stable cross.

I’m kinda drunk so maybe someone can explain it better.




So you would look for transfer material at the intersection's.

That's pure genius Thanks!


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Books On Crossing Strains [Re: tramalot]
    #26576690 - 04/04/20 05:03 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm sorry, but real quick question:

Is my inference correct that all Psilocybes are bifactorial?


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