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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD * 1
    #26562070 - 03/27/20 10:23 PM (10 months, 29 days ago)

My brother, has, in the past several years, made it known to the family, how he has been suffering with OCD symptoms for a while, at first not knowing exactly what to make of them, then sharing with us after some time.  I've had immense experience with psilocybin, and consider it one of the most important tools for results in immediate, short-term progression, evolution, and enlightenment that we have access to.

My brother hasn't ever smoked cannabis, or drank alcohol more than a handful of times, and has almost no experience with mind altering substances.  (Im in my mid thirtees, him early thirtees) We have a relationship that has no drama or issues at all, just not as close as I would love, and I feel in some of our adolescent years, there was a tiny amount of unnecessary, cultural-imposed division, based on how I pursue enlightenment through our tools and friends, and he basically, for lack of better terms, ingested the DARE education narrative pretty heavily.

My main area that I'm seeking advice in, is how I should find the balance in giving my brother a good idea of what to expect so he can be best prepared to benefit, without fear, and have a bit of a disclaimer, without affecting the 'set' expectations too much.  I really am tempted to send links to McKenna or Sheldrake or Ram Dass lectures, but figure that's few steps furthur down the rabbit hole.  I find, when I start to talk that I have to use tolerance to hold back the passion of expressing some of the more intense life lessons i've learned, and keep it simple and introductory.  I'm trying to word how it's some of the difficult times that lend to the most meaningful experiences.  I don't want to discourage or lend suggestion by saying stuff like how it's normal to feel absolutely insane or that your dying.

I'm am filled with emotion, having the little helpers be very important to me.  Sharing the love has long felt to be a destined mission of mine, and now I get the chance to help cure my brother of his suffering, while introducing the notion to my family, who have been liberal and open-minded, yet, until recently, they haven't been on board with the typical mainstream ideology of a psychedelic being about anything other than tripping and creating hallucinations.

We've already made initial plans.  My brother has, 4 months ago, contacted two of the currently recruiting psilocybin OCD clinical trials going on.  https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03356483. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03300947?cond=ocd+psilocybin&draw=2&rank=2 He just recently heard back, (with quite synchronistic timing), on the same day I expedited an alternative. We're so lucky that mom is retired and lives nearby with time to travel and act as the trip sitter.  I could make it there to see him, but he is many states travel from me, in this time when we are supposed to be staying at home, in place.  We are already planning to begin with microdose levels for, at least, several days.

The dosage stated in the clinical trials is what comes out to the classic 1.7 grams dried material equivalent, (for the average 150lb. person).  It was interesting, that he was under the impression the clinical trial was micro, but I assisted with the math.  He basically figured out today that the full experience may, in fact, be what we're going for here, as opposed to only micro.

I am wide open to opinions and experiences of anyone who has participated in a similar trial, for any condition, as well as suggestions and ideas that I haven't stumbled upon yet, regarding how to make this smooth and natural and simple for my brother who has virtually zero entheogen experience.  Im interested in the topic of introducing a family member with no experience to the medicine, or with bias against it.

Thank all you lovely folks!  Stay energized and motivated and positive and safe and healthy!  Love you all!

(I know this post belongs here, but I am posting in Psychedelic Experience too for more potential views)


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_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms] * 2
    #26562473 - 03/28/20 05:11 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

It sounds like you have a very supportive family network, which is really positive. I do need to follow up your link to the OCD trials, as I’m considering psilocybin to help treat my daughter. She is nearly 15 and my plan is to wait until she is 18 before I discuss alternative therapy with her. But the Doseage 1.7gmdry doesn’t sound correct: the Johns Hopkins psilocybin depression studies use high doses: either 20mg or 30mg psilocybin. 30mg psilocybin is approximately the amount you would get from 5 dried grams, not 1.7.

If it is in fact a high dose you need, your support network and sitter will mitigate any unpleasantness from the high dose. I’d recommend you research more thoroughly the required dose formOCD treatment.

Good luck
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlinepeanotter
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26562475 - 03/28/20 05:13 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
the Johns Hopkins psilocybin depression studies use high doses: either 20mg or 30mg psilocybin.




Dont they start off with lower doses and then ramp up the following months?


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: peanotter]
    #26562480 - 03/28/20 05:24 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

The recent trials they might have change it up a bit. But the early ones were all about double blind; with placebo, 20mg and 30mg doses. And the setting and set were all geared towards effecting a mystical experience.


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms]
    #26562485 - 03/28/20 05:28 AM (10 months, 29 days ago)

Op just checked the link and the dose is 0;25mg/kg. So for a 70kg individual, that works out at 17.5mg psilocybin; which is in fact a high dose. It’s not the 5g high dose, but will certainly get one into the psychedelic headspace :thumbup:


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26564153 - 03/28/20 10:41 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Thanks for the replies.  DJ Ed, your last post is on par with what i've figured.  I am putting into consideration, the possibility that the psilocybin content is closer toward the higher end of 1% (like the P.E. strain could be), rather than 0.6%, that's how I got the equivalent of a 1.7g dried dose, from the 17mg's psilocybin that one would be getting in that trial, assuming they are 150 lbs.  I want to aim on the lower end to avoid any negative, discouraging effects.  I found that dosage interesting because that has been the very amount (half an eighth) that I, and many i've known, have aimed for in a recreational, spiritual experience. 

    From what I remember, some of those John Hopkins studies involved higher doses.  There was the trial on achieving mystical, spiritual experiences in healthy individuals.  I actually applied for that trial some ten years ago.  They didn't end up choosing me.  The participant would blindly receive one of several different dosages, but I bet some got a heroic dose! 

    I think many of those on the sensitive side can get a pretty full blown experience from around the 1.7 grams range... of average potency cubensis...  I know it will, at the least, enter into that realm and headspace.  This specific batch of medicine has catapulted folks with in depth experience, at one gram and less, so I would only suggest anything close to five grams for someone I didn't like very much!  :wink: Could possibly equal 50mg psilocybin or more!  :shocked: OR, who knows, maybe that would end up having the most extreme positive, beneficial results!  Good luck to you as well, Ed, with your daughters path at finding relief and balance.  :yinyang:


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_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms]
    #26564410 - 03/29/20 03:04 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Check the shroomery mushroom Doseage calculator: here.

I think this is how it’s worked out: on the calculator there are 2 boxes for psilocybin and psilocin content (average). I ignore the psilocin box, so we have for an average Psilocybe cubensis mushroom there are 5.6mg psilocybin per gram of dried mushroom. So if you were to take 5 dried grams, this would equate to 5.6 x 5 = 28mg psilocybin.

So yes, the original studies that varied between zero, 20mg, and 30mg effectively dosed some patients at the “heroic dose” level....

0mg - 0g dry
20mg = 3.57g dry
30mg = 5.36g dry

The 20mg (or 17mg in the OCD study) WILL get you into hyperspace, but you will still be able to control the trip; the research discussions assert that you need the 30mg for the trip to control you, and I believe that is where in the guided sessions the real work is done, and during the immediate integration phase on the way back down; the preparation is to get your set into a mystical expectation.

Hope this helps,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26564872 - 03/29/20 11:29 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Thanks!  That does all sound right to me, and checks out with my thoughts.  The only wild card that COULD massively alter those figures, is the specific strain, Penis Envy, which is my only option to work with.  There are several different P.E. varieties, and certain ones have basically retarded genetics, they are sporeless, and they will produce mutated blobs of fruits, and seem to have relative double potency of other cubensis.  I believe the psilocybin content figures that you find most places online are fairly consistent, mirroring what you find on the dosage calculator or at Erowid.  And, you notice, that for the dosage calculator to be accurate, you are supposed to know the psilocybin content of your material.
So I am adjusting according to that.  Just imagine if those mg dosages just.. doubled...


--------------------
_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


Edited by DoorsandRooms (03/29/20 11:34 AM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms]
    #26564876 - 03/29/20 11:34 AM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Yes, caution over valour! I’ve heard reports PE can vary between 1.5x and 2x as strong as a typical cubensis. But then you can also get wild variations in potency of a typical cubensis too!


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



Edited by DJ Ed (03/29/20 11:35 AM)


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Offlinealaskappalachian
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26565266 - 03/29/20 03:01 PM (10 months, 28 days ago)

Just an anecdotal contribution that bears some relevance:  I have found that microdosing has helped me combat both symptoms of my OCD and my horrific anxiety disorder.  Heroic doses have nearly put an end to my unhealthy expressions of PTSD.  When I microdose I don't: count things out in my head for no reason and use patterns of thinking to put my mind at ease, obsess about the level of clean everything is around me, react unreasonably to external stimuli, become distracted by my own thoughts while I should be listening to who is speaking to mea the moment, over-do tasks that don't warrant extra attention, attach meaning to things that have none, or- very importantly- make random, nearly-imperceptable-to-others body movments/tense muscles out of habit; which I was starting to worry was my mind's way of coping with a looming neurologically-rooted motor disorder.  No more of that for months now, and I microdose infrequently.  I really wish all the best for your brother.  I'm inspired that you have taken the time to help him addresss this, and also that you have taken steps to integrate a clinical setting into potential psycadelic therapy.  Pat yourself on the back.  Catchcing OCD while it is still in its infancy is key to treating symptoms effetively and with the long-term in mind.  The more aggresively you both work to combat this, the better chance he has in regaining normaitly regardless of theraputic apporach.  I would reccomend two trip sitters and a day of prep, followed by 5g dry/2.5-3g dry of PE for a first-session, followed by a review period.  Take notes.  Be as methodical as I am sure you have been in beoming involved.  Best of luck and please update us as to his/your results/progression.  Also- have a great day.


--------------------

“Science does not need mysticism and mysticism does not need science. But man needs both.”
-Fritjof Capra

LAGM2021


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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26572013 - 04/01/20 10:41 PM (10 months, 24 days ago)

Whoa.  Thanks, that is some heavy stuff to think about.  And inspiring to hear how you've been helped. Here in town, MAPS came and held a sold-out, past-capacity event talking about MDMA for PTSD.  Thanks for those suggestions.


--------------------
_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


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OfflinePuduwoke
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms]
    #26573104 - 04/02/20 01:30 PM (10 months, 24 days ago)

:threadmonitor:

Good luck too you brother and you :hug:


--------------------
:sporedrop:Trade List:sporedrop:

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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: Puduwoke]
    #26578201 - 04/04/20 11:50 PM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Thanks Pud!  Only update I can give is that he tried a less than .1g microdose and felt some excitement and the next day did a .1g with some dizziness or 'out-of-it' feeling after an hour and a half, and good feelings afterwards, and nothing otherwise dramatic, good or bad.  That's what I expected: not too much at those levels.  He had to take a small pause on experimenting, and is planning more towards a full experience sometime soon, when the timing allows.


--------------------
_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


Edited by DoorsandRooms (04/04/20 11:51 PM)


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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms]
    #26628105 - 04/25/20 10:28 PM (10 months, 18 hours ago)

My brother has worked up to .2 and .3g microdoses over the last couple weeks.  He hasn't had many consecutive days microdosing, which is what I reminded was important to do, to consider it a fair shot at the experiment.  I've reiterated the difference in the micro and the full experience.  And how they are not the same ballgame and how one should think of each as two different choices, as opposed to trying to aim for the middle.  As of latest, he has taken a smaller version of a full dose experience.  About a half a gram of 'envies'.  And has reported some very interesting effect and understanding of 'the next level'.  He's giving me a more full detailed report tomorrow.


--------------------
_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms]
    #26629114 - 04/26/20 10:03 AM (10 months, 7 hours ago)

Gonna chime in with an anecdote from a friend whose brother with bad ocd-like anxiety benefited from a mushroom trip. I don't think there is anything to be worried about with OCD and mushrooms since mushrooms very much (when taken in an effective dose to produce the psychedelic experience) eliminate the "default brain network" or the default state, whatever the term was, the OCD simply won't be there but probably some underlying feelings will come to light. I wish your brother all the best. Are you going to trip sit him anytime soon?


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