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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD
    #26561652 - 03/27/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

My brother, has, in the past several years, made it known to the family, how he has been suffering with OCD symptoms for a while, at first not knowing exactly what to make of them, then sharing with us after some time.  I've had immense experience with psilocybin, and consider it one of the most important tools for results in immediate, short-term progression, evolution, and enlightenment that we have access to. 

My brother hasn't ever smoked cannabis, or drank alcohol more than a handful of times, and has almost no experience with mind altering substances.  (Im in my mid thirtees, him early thirtees) We have a relationship that has no drama or issues at all, just not as close as I would love, and I feel in some of our adolescent years, there was a tiny amount of unnecessary, cultural-imposed division, based on how I pursue enlightenment through our tools and friends, and he basically, for lack of better terms, ingested the DARE education narrative pretty heavily. 

My main area that I'm seeking advice in, is how I should find the balance in giving my brother a good idea of what to expect so he can be best prepared to benefit, without fear, and have a bit of a disclaimer, without affecting the 'set' expectations too much.  I really am tempted to send links to McKenna or Sheldrake or Ram Dass lectures, but figure that's few steps furthur down the rabbit hole.  I find, when I start to talk that I have to use tolerance to hold back the passion of expressing some of the more intense life lessons i've learned, and keep it simple and introductory.  I'm trying to word how it's some of the difficult times that lend to the most meaningful experiences.  I don't want to discourage or lend suggestion by saying stuff like how it's normal to feel absolutely insane or that your dying.

I'm am filled with emotion, having the little helpers be very important to me.  Sharing the love has long felt to be a destined mission of mine, and now I get the chance to help cure my brother of his suffering, while introducing the notion to my family, who have been liberal and open-minded, yet, until recently, they haven't been on board with the typical mainstream ideology of a psychedelic being about anything other than tripping and creating hallucinations.

We've already made initial plans.  My brother has, 4 months ago, contacted two of the currently recruiting psilocybin OCD clinical trials going on.  https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03356483. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03300947?cond=ocd+psilocybin&draw=2&rank=2 He just recently heard back, (with quite synchronistic timing), on the same day I expedited an alternative. We're so lucky that mom is retired and lives nearby with time to travel and act as the trip sitter.  I could make it there to see him, but he is many states travel from me, in this time when we are supposed to be staying at home, in place.  We are already planning to begin with microdose levels for, at least, several days. 

The dosage stated in the clinical trials is what comes out to the classic 1.7 grams dried material equivalent, (for the average 150lb. person).  It was interesting, that he was under the impression the clinical trial was micro, but I assisted with the math.  He basically figured out today that the full experience may, in fact, be what we're going for here, as opposed to only micro.

I am wide open to opinions and experiences of anyone who has participated in a similar trial, for any condition, as well as suggestions and ideas that I haven't stumbled upon yet, regarding how to make this smooth and natural and simple for my brother who has virtually zero entheogen experience.  Im interested in the topic of introducing a family member with no experience to the medicine, or with bias against it. 

Thank all you lovely folks!  Stay energized and motivated and positive and safe and healthy!  Love you all!

(I know this post belongs here, but I am posting in Psychedelic Experience too for more potential views)


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"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms] * 1
    #26570264 - 04/01/20 12:53 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I think this is a horrible idea. Has your bother even told you what his OCD is about? What are the exact thoughts and images that pop up. Start there and talk to him about those issues. He’ll probably start off saying things like “they’re just random man idk” but you’ll get it out of him eventually. Also don’t think bad about him if they are violent or fucked up or whatever.

After you get that info and talk to him I think it would be wise to use MDMA over mushrooms wouldn’t it? As long as you know it’s pure mdma. OCD isn’t really well understood, the only way to really beat it is to ignore it. Taking a dose of psychedelics with the intention of ‘tackling’ his OCD could cause his brain to explode with an attack mid trip. He needs to be taking things to calm his mind down and focus on reality not get twisted in it


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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #26572180 - 04/01/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, I see where you're coming from, that it isn't guaranteed to go smoothly.  Which is why the whole idea is being thoroughly considered and we're moving slow.  It's completely about supplementation and integration, therapy, context, and intention.  The OCD is a problem my brother has had for years now.  It gradually manifested, and he doesn't know what to make of it, in terms that will solve anything.  I wouldn't cast any 'bad' judgments about him and what he's going through....  I think it's more complicated than asking him what his thoughts are about.  All he knows is he takes long showers, feels like he's forgetting things before leaving the house, being late for appointments, washing hands obsessively.  Sorry, you are inexperienced and ignorant to conjure the bright idea that ignoring it is a viable suggestion.  That's done been done.  He has talked to therapists about it.  The route we're considering is not a first option. 
   
    Being able to better understand it, through this experiment, is exactly the area that will hopefully lead to some resolve.  OR maybe instantly shatter the concept of it as he visualizes himself, the size of an ant, standing apart from, right beside a glowing orb of light, representing his OCD, as he realizes it's not him, and is instantly cured.  OR has a near death, ego-loss experience, and feels like a brand new man the next day.  OR he could have a negative reaction.  I guess the point is that it's worth a try at this time.  And your type of response is actually what i'm looking for, if it has some backing.  I respectfully, understand, for the most part, what could possibly happen.

    I don't have access to MDMA, and if I did, would have little confidence in it's authenticity.  A test kit will tell you it's real if it's like 10% mdma or a relative of it, and that's like the one category of drugs that might actually cause brain damage.  And yes, while I think MDMA might likely have a beneficial effect, psilocybin is the one the consensual focus is on for this. 

It is quite obviously a controversial idea, but something we've considered, because it has results.  Psilocybin is activated in the same 5-ht2a and c receptors that research has found to have a direct involvement in reducing OCD symptoms.

It's at the point where it interferes with living life, he's tested medications, and alternatives, and the outcomes for the research, if you look into it, are mostly towards the positive direction.  Instant results, with one dose, with relatively long-lasting effects.  Do you have some direct experiences in the arena?


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_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


Edited by DoorsandRooms (04/01/20 10:02 PM)


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: DoorsandRooms]
    #26572500 - 04/02/20 02:44 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I have experience with OCD and drugs yes. But yeah I mean if we was 20 I’d say give him 5 grams and see what happens but if he’s in his 30s and seems to have a fragile mind then that is what worries me. It could possibly be one step forward and two steps back you know. It could give him a glimpse of what he needs to see but that’s it. The guy is in 30s never drank a drop or smoked a bowl so if he does it he’s in for it. It’s not that big of a deal tho I mean most likely what will happen is he’ll have a profound trip and feel refreshed for a few days.

What is his life like? Good job, girlfriend, social life? Remember profound life experiences have the greatest effect on the mind. Mushrooms are just a drug that makes you feel as if you are going through a profound experience but you are not. He needs to change his life. But yes I would agree mushrooms could help catapult that.


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #26573850 - 04/02/20 06:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not bragging but I'm a 35 yr vet myself and I have to ask, why does it have to be a full on trip, why not micro dose? Unless he wants the full experience,  then  I say 5g dry weight cubensis,  it's a great 1st time amount for the average person,  but if you know that he's sensitive to substances like alcohol and other meds, cut it down to an 1/8th.

edit: my dose recommendation is for Psilocybe cubensis only!!!


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (04/02/20 06:59 PM)


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OfflineDoorsandRooms
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Re: 20+yr. psychonaut seeks advice to properly assist brother in 1st time psilocybin experience for OCD [Re: Doc9151]
    #26578186 - 04/04/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

My brother did a less than .1g microdose test and felt almost no changes, but some excitement.  And a full .1 the next day with some feeling of dizziness or out of it, an hour and 30 minutes in, but nothing big.  He is taking a few days pause, for reasons not related to the trials, but the current thought is something beyond the micro, when the time is right. 

@ Led -    Those ideas totally resonate with me... those are my concerns.  I feel like, for my first handful of experiences, I would get, for lack of better terms, a friendlier, more introductory, user-friendlier version.  But it seemed like after a certain point, they show you the next level of lessons.  I always wonder how much that a more intense, life-changing experience tends to come with age, experience, or based on factors in your current life.  I do wonder, if beginners, without previous contexts, could somehow handle bigger amounts like toward 5 grams.  I know I don't need to go near that.  Maybe one day.  I also always smoked cannabis an hour in to it, and that definitely makes a dramatic difference. 

@Doc:    We were thinking, at the beginning phase of considering this possibility, that it might be microdosing, and that's what I figure would be good to ease into, either way, and what we've started with.  However, in the last week or two realized that there may be more success with larger doses.  We're just trying to replicate whatever seems to be working, and some relief for the OCD symptoms.  We're trying to replicate the clinical trials, that seem pretty promising.


--------------------
_________________________________________________________________

"Doors are a waste of time"  Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in "The Doors"

"Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals"  - RR


Edited by DoorsandRooms (04/04/20 09:45 PM)


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