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OfflineHypnoToad
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tool or toy?
    #2655847 - 05/09/04 06:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Does anyone use enthonobotanical plants as tools for shamanic work or for religious reasons?Or do the majority here just like to play with and just enjoy the effects of the plants?


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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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InvisibleLocus
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2655892 - 05/09/04 07:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ofcoarse.. some people do and some people don't.. or both.


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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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OfflineJust_a_Shadow
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2656224 - 05/09/04 10:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's a little but of both for most people.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2656251 - 05/09/04 11:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I usually go into the experience wanting it to be a tool, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy it at the same time :smile:


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: deff]
    #2656292 - 05/09/04 11:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I use ethnobotanicals purely as tools for my shamanic work and my enrgy and dream work.Everyone I've spoken to in the past about ethnobotanicals all did it purely for the effects and nothing more.Which is quite a shame as some plants are very powerful tools when used properly.


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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2656682 - 05/09/04 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I use mine as tools, but I like to share with responsible people and sometimes they are less serious about it if you know what I mean. By the way that episode of Futuramais the shit. Good name man. :thumbup:


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2657151 - 05/09/04 04:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No offense to anyone who may read this:

One thing I cant stand is the person who wants to take part but then ruins everything for everyone else present.

I also just dont see the point in taking ethnobotanicals simply for the effect.It's like starting a brilliant masterpiece painting but only doing part of the outline and stopping and staying there forever.

Thanks.

I love the HypnoToad and of course Futurama.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2657337 - 05/09/04 05:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you wouldn't believe how many people use shrooms and plants merely as toys... it's the marjority i think.
perhaps not the case here in the ethnobotanical garden (many shamen)... =)


FH


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InvisibleMr_Gubjet


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Re: tool or toy? [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2657814 - 05/09/04 07:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I second mind tools.


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Offlinecherokee
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2657864 - 05/09/04 08:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Different stokes for different folks...


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2659806 - 05/10/04 04:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I agree, some people don't even have the ability to deal with the experience. I used t think that everyone could benifit from lets say eating some mushrooms, but some people's minds just aren't put together well enough to deal with it. Some people have the ability to deal with the effects, but not the inclinatin to delve into their mind/soul with the experience. Its kind of like comunion. Some people are absolutely penetrated by this belief in salvation through the blood of Christ, and some just do it because that's what they believe that they are supposed to do.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlineeve69
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2660872 - 05/10/04 08:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's like asking do you read for pleasure or knowledge. I think obviously that one reads for a mixture of both pleasurable feelings and thought. So also I cannot differentiate between spiritual reasons or merely pleasurable. For the more visionary substances. However, some drugs just make me stupid and appetite driven such as weed. (Just because of the sheer amount smokesd, small amounts are highly visionary.)


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...or something







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Offlinedeff
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: eve69]
    #2661042 - 05/10/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, to me spiritual advacement, plant shamanism ect. brings pleasure. Others seek pleasure rather in the visions produced by etheogens, or from the recreational aspect. I don't see anything wrong with either way, so long as they ingest it safely and responsibly.


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: deff]
    #2661068 - 05/10/04 09:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"I don't see anything wrong with either way, so long as they ingest it safely and responsibly."

I've noticed alot of people who use it purely for recreation tend to be much less responsible with it.It's especially true for the younger half.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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Offlinedeff
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2661108 - 05/10/04 09:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, generally that's true. However I'm sure there's young recreational users who are very responsible as well.


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: deff]
    #2661133 - 05/10/04 09:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"I'm sure there's young recreational users who are very responsible as well."

I know there are some but they seem to be the minority of the bunch.There is a higher trend toward misuse among recreational users for some reason.Perhaps because they do it for fun it seems more harmless or less serious.Where as shaman/magick user types are more serious about it and tend to educate themselves and take the substances/plants quite seriously.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2661151 - 05/10/04 09:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

For a lot of people drug education either means street myths of D.A.R.E. myths. To some, the idea of using drugs in a resposible fashion is a strange idea because they are told that ANY drug use is irresponsible. SO if they use, all bets are off. This is a lot like the don't do it or else attitudes taken towards sex in the 50's in my opinion.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlinedeff
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2661212 - 05/10/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah very true. They always refer to drug use as drug abuse, no matter the circumstances. It really ticks me off :laugh:


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2661241 - 05/10/04 09:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lmao The D.A.R.E. programs are hilariously stupid in my opinion.I remember how they basically criminalized anyone who even tried drugs really let alone regular users.I feel that the D.A.R.E. approach to drug education will eventually change.Especially with forums like this one and sites like Erowid.And in some schools individuals have taken time to give real drug education like is needed.However it has a long way to go.

What they dont teach is how drugs/substances/plants used by recreational users and shaman/magick users aren't very different from the prescription drugs,caffeine,heral food addictives or products (teas,etc) like guarana,ephedrine,etc and chocolate people gobbled down in record numbers.Most people use some combination of these daily or regularly.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: tool or toy? [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2662627 - 05/11/04 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

One of my friends said that he saw a special on chocolate on t.v. It was talking about this group of nuns who were so obsessed with chocolate that pretty much all they did was sit around making and eating chocolate all fucking day. It was so bad that the pope at the time put a ban on it. I don't know if its true or not, but I can see how a bunch of women who never had or would have sex or anything else pleasureable for that matter might look ract to something like that. I mean think about all the normal women you know who are chocohoalics.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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