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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555337 - 03/24/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, very important question here!


I am hoping to get some answers quickly. So, this Friday afternoon, 70 hours from now at 3:00PM EST, it will be Day 21 post-inoculation. My dilemma, as more clearly delineated in this post [here] is, how do I know if I should stagger the birthing of my cakes and their placement into my SGFC. Many of the cakes are proceeding very nicely, exceeding my expectations. More than half the jars now, about 17/24, are 100% white or very close to it, at lest in terms of the cylindrical surface of the inoculated substrate. Of those 17, they are all making serious headway in terms of infiltrating the bottoms of the cakes. 2 of the 17 have the bottoms almost completely white. while the other 15 making great progress have the bottoms in various states of "white" from say about 75% white to about 95% white.

The other 7 jars are in various stages of really lagging behind.

I was thinking of waiting until Friday to post pics, since that will be the 3 week mark. But what are all of your experience with jars that are really going at it, versus jars in the same grow that are just really sluggish and slow? I know next to nothing compared to you guys, but my lay opinion and observations here tell me that there is no way I will be able to birth all 24 cakes at the same time. Is this something that's common?

Maybe an even more important question is, what is the point where you have waited TOO LONG to birth cakes, soak, dunk & roll, and install them into the terrarium? What are the ramifications and penalties for waiting too long, say if I do end up waiting for the slow jars to consolidate?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26555383 - 03/24/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Typically jars do not colonize at the same rate. Thats just MS genetics for you, lots of variability.

Its best to wait before birthing aka dont birth a cake earlt. The point where u have waited too long is when you get invitro fruits aka fruits start growing inside the jar. Its best to be avoided whenever possible.

The best time to birth a cake in my opinion is when u start to see tiny white mushroom heads popping on the surface of the cak, which is called pre-pinning. Thats when u should birth. But right before that stage works as well.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26555434 - 03/24/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Typically jars do not colonize at the same rate. Thats just MS genetics for you, lots of variability.




This is what I figured, but I wanted to make sure something wasn't wrong, just in case.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:Its best to wait before birthing aka dont birth a cake earlt. The point where u have waited too long is when you get invitro fruits aka fruits start growing inside the jar. Its best to be avoided whenever possible.




But I'm assuming that before this happens, I would have plenty of warning? Like I would probably have to leave my jars unattended and ignored for weeks at a time? I am definitely not seeing any pins forming, but I am getting some lattices of very thin white lines in some jars. My point is that it sounds like I have a pretty sizable margin of error for waiting a long time, right? I am not impatient, and would rather wait more time than less, if it gives the jars that are really lagging behind the chance they need to catch up. My first preference would be to birth everything, all 24 cakes, at once, if at all possible. But I'm afraid that between 4 and 7 jars may end up needing to be birthed later. That's why I'm hoping I have a large margin of error here, so I can wait.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:The best time to birth a cake in my opinion is when u start to see tiny white mushroom heads popping on the surface of the cak, which is called pre-pinning. Thats when u should birth. But right before that stage works as well.




This sounds like great news! Given that in 3 days I will have 3 weeks of inoculated substrate under my belt, I am hoping the lagging jars catch up enough.

Now another possible dilemma. I may need to buy another Sterilite Container. The 70 Quart unit I have seems to be too small for 24 cakes. See the picture below. Though, admittedly, that pic was taken with actual jars, and the birthed cakes are smaller than the jars obviously. But from that pic, it looks like it will only fit 18 of 24 jars.

Soooooo....a staggered birthing may actually be a good thing. Unless you think that somehow all 24 cakes actually will fit in that tub, minus all the jars. Which of course brings up another very important question: How far away from one another should the cakes all be in the SGFC? One inch? 1/2 inch? 2 inches? 3 inches? I want to make sure that proximity doesn't impinge on the ability of these cakes to fruit. Of course, there's also the issue some brought up about cakes being too far apart from one another in the terrarium causing drying out and impeding fruiting.

Also, if I need another Sterilite container to make a SGFC out of, can you recommend a size? I would assume it could be very small since it would only be holding about 6ish cakes?



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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555456 - 03/24/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

By the way, I'm seeing a lot of droplets of water on the inside of the jars, atop the mycelium and substrate or perhaps just condensing on the jar itself. I assume this is normal, due to the fact that I mixed water into the substrate before sterilizing and inoculating?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555495 - 03/24/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah with 24 cakes (a lot), youre gonna need another tote. A smaller size would do since most of your jars will fit in that large 64 qt tote.

Condensation is normal. It comes from the mycelium growing i believe.

You should have plently of warning, but check your jars everyday when they get close to birthing time.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26555498 - 03/24/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks! What size would you recommend, Logical Chaos? And, again what is the distance each cake needs to be from one another in the SGFC?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555530 - 03/24/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Oh yeah, i like my cakes about 2-3 inches apart. U dont want them too close but also not too far away as well. 2-3 inches spacing seems like the right amount.

As for the second fruiting tub, a 32 quart tote would work. Or even a 24 qt tote.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26555617 - 03/24/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, Logical Chaos!

If I am understanding you correctly, then I may have to rethink the logistics of my fruiting chamber(s).  Take a look at that last picture I just posted. Notice that 18 half-pint jars barely fit in the entire bottom of that container. If I really need to space my cakes 2 to 3 inches apart, then unless the cakes are much, much smaller than the jars which I don’t think they will be, then I may only be able to fit 12 to 16 cakes in my current 70 Qt container and maintain that little social distance. (Too soon?)

Birthing 24 cakes, from what I’m looking at now, and doing a little arithmetic, seems like it’s going to be a much greater undertaking then can be accommodated by a 70 quart container plus, say a 30 quart container, both turned into SGFCs.

Thoughts?

Edit: I’m just kind of eyeballing this now, but I’m thinking, that if my estimate of only 12 to 16 cakes fitting into a 70 quart container is correct, and I err toward the 12, I may actually need a second 70 Qt Sterilite container.


Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/24/20 06:13 PM)


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InvisibleSirSpanksAlot
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555683 - 03/24/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I too am interested in seeing where the PF Tek will take me since Ive barely tried it out this recent cycle _I too am new to it, but I am quite experienced in preping WBR (whole brown rice).

Not to disregard your intent to make cake, and fruit, but its also a slight bonus to take a small piece or bit, off the side of the cake. As this small chunk can facilitate a whole new jar for innoculant. But again as a side suggestion. (E.G. grain to grain, grain to agar, grain to lc, agar to< >etc, the list goes on as long as its sterile)

Also good on you, for clearing the jagged bits and your philospohy to channel divine fruits. Hopefully the tedious act will reward you with grows to come, and easy clean up following


Edited by SirSpanksAlot (03/24/20 06:48 PM)


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: SirSpanksAlot] * 1
    #26555758 - 03/24/20 07:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

While I admire logical chaos I'm gonna have to argue against changing fruiting chamber size. It seems like good idea to give 2-3 inches between cakes but I'm telling you birth those bad boys when they are colonized and you can birth them in waves. The benefit of them fruiting closer together is the mositure and FAE exchange will give you a denser pinset. The more distance there is between cakes the harder it is to maintain RH. The closer they are the more likely you will get a more even pinset and also a nice canopy.


Edited by Sockadin (03/24/20 07:28 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26555764 - 03/24/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Very true there. My suggestion was another extra FC that was about half the size of his current one as another 64 qt would be too big for the remaining cakes.

When birthing cakes LSA, birth them near the center and work outwards with other cakes. That way u get the best humidity in the center of the FC.

Also Im looking at a tape ruler, 2 inches looks ideal, 3 inches might be a bit too far. Make sure u have a ruler or caliper to really dial in those cake-spacing distances!! :wink:


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26555830 - 03/24/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Very true there. My suggestion was another extra FC that was about half the size of his current one as another 64 qt would be too big for the remaining cakes.

When birthing cakes LSA, birth them near the center and work outwards with other cakes. That way u get the best humidity in the center of the FC.

Also Im looking at a tape ruler, 2 inches looks ideal, 3 inches might be a bit too far. Make sure u have a ruler or caliper to really dial in those cake-spacing distances!! :wink:




Quote:

Sockadin said:
While I admire logical chaos I'm gonna have to argue against changing fruiting chamber size. It seems like good idea to give 2-3 inches between cakes but I'm telling you birth those bad boys when they are colonized and you can birth them in waves. The benefit of them fruiting closer together is the mositure and FAE exchange will give you a denser pinset. The more distance there is between cakes the harder it is to maintain RH. The closer they are the more likely you will get a more even pinset and also a nice canopy.




Okay, so I am a bit confused. I'll respond to both of you guys simultaneously. You aren't really answering my questions about this. For starters, I have 24 potential cakes to birth, and whether we're talking about a 2 or 3 inch distance between cakes, I am forced to once again try to point you to the pic I posted. Based on Logical Chaos's advice, even if its only 2 inches, I don't see how I am going to cram 24 cakes into a 70 Qt Sterilite container + a 24 or 32 Qt container. Unless, as I said, the jars are MUCH bigger than the actual cakes, which I seriously doubt. I may need a second 70 Qt container to birth 24 cakes. Maybe a 64 Qt. But if I am looking at this correctly, I see no way of getting even 18 cakes into the 70 Qt tub while maintaining even as little as 2 inches distance between cakes. Seems to me that the only way I squeeze 18 cakes into this thing is to literally put them right up against one another. So I'm probably looking at 12 cakes per 70 Qt container, which brings me right back to probably needing another 70 Qt tub.

What am I missing here?


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Invisiblewoofwoof
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555856 - 03/24/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Also remember that once the jars are completely colonized (all white) you gotta let it consolidate for an additional week to 10 days. That could buy you some time.
You could always birth the ones that are ready, then birth the slower ones when they are ready.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: woofwoof]
    #26555870 - 03/24/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

woofwoof said:
Also remember that once the jars are completely colonized (all white) you gotta let it consolidate for an additional week to 10 days. That could buy you some time.
You could always birth the ones that are ready, then birth the slower ones when they are ready.




The time factor of this isn't really relevant, though. If I need a second SGFC, then I need a second SGFC, and whether I buy the tub now and break out the drill, as I did the first one, or I do it two weeks from now is inconsequential.

Edit: My apologies, I just re-read your post and realized I misunderstood you. I was leaning toward staggering my birthing, so thanks for confirming this is a viable way to go. Now, I am trying to sort out the respective sizes of my SGFC(s) because I am not sure that the 70 Qt will fit enough cakes to allow me to buy a much smaller second tub for a second SGFC as Logical Chaos is suggesting.


Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/24/20 08:28 PM)


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Invisiblewoofwoof
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555890 - 03/24/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You could use the same tub. When I did pf tek, I used to stack my cakes, that way I could have 2 cakes on one foil to allow additional 12 more cakes to fit in same chamber


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: woofwoof]
    #26555904 - 03/24/20 08:31 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

woofwoof said:
You could use the same tub. When I did pf tek, I used to stack my cakes, that way I could have 2 cakes on one foil to allow additional 12 more cakes to fit in same chamber





You Ninja'd me! lol I edited my post above and you had already responded before I finished. :mushroom2:

What do you mean "stack your cakes?" I am losing you here. Logical Chaos was saying 2-3 inches between them and Sockadin was saying less, but neither of them are saying that they should be jutted up against one another, and I don't think RogerRabbit ever recommended this either. Though that I may be wrong about.


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Invisiblewoofwoof
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555921 - 03/24/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555928 - 03/24/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Woofwoof has a point you can do 12 and twelve. They will grow together slowly. It just means more Mycelium but it won't increase the BE of your grow.

I might have misunderstood the initial question. Can you fit all of the jars in the 70qrt tub? If so you are good to go. If not you will need another SGFC


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: woofwoof]
    #26555933 - 03/24/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

woofwoof said:
like this: https://x9p9b5c5.stackpathcdn.com/uploads/monthly_2016_01/DSC01707.thumb.JPG.c5c1638b6698bbf0e2baf0d643a26bfa.JPG




Ah, that's what I thought you meant. I do have to ask, though, wouldn't that kind of proximity of cakes to one another impede the growth of one another? Most of the fruiting I've seen shows a lot of side mushroom formation, and my worry would be that the cakes that close would interfere with one another.

But if you guys tell me that distance, which looks to be a tad under an inch between each cake, then that's good enough for me! But I would like to hear some other opinions on this as well.


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26555940 - 03/24/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

They will help each other. Your mushrooms create a climate. The closer h
They are the better the climate.


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