Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinekitten6
hiker
Male

Registered: 05/13/19
Posts: 96
Loc: UK 0161
Last seen: 19 days, 4 hours
are fires aware * 1
    #26555367 - 03/24/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So, i light a fire, light a zigorette or whatever.

When it is on fire, is it alive, is it sentient, when you look into it, does it look back a you?

It's alive i think. What do you think?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleevlyshrooms
willi weilii
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/08/19
Posts: 2,275
Re: are fires aware [Re: kitten6]
    #26555438 - 03/24/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I vote no


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: are fires aware [Re: kitten6]
    #26555470 - 03/24/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

if by alive, you mean vibrating, then yes. but if you mean conscious, then no.


--------------------
🐴:poop:
hpoo or die


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
Re: are fires aware [Re: kitten6] * 1
    #26555546 - 03/24/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

When you light a fire, it is not conscious of your presence, and it cannot "see." But I feel that everything in nature is imbued with a sense of objective being, so that it is also incorrect to say it is utterly dead and without feature. Another poster mentioned "vibration." If you want to think of the fire as having a vibration that in some proto-sense represents slight feeling, in a real but abstract way, then I think that might be reasonably accurate.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,704
Re: are fires aware [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26555624 - 03/24/20 06:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

if you are stoned enough the gaze makes it alive


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekitten6
hiker
Male

Registered: 05/13/19
Posts: 96
Loc: UK 0161
Last seen: 19 days, 4 hours
Re: are fires aware [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26556328 - 03/25/20 04:19 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

but how can you prove that it isn't conscious. Not just noise.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,704
Re: are fires aware [Re: kitten6] * 1
    #26556389 - 03/25/20 06:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

some things are over before you can set up your test equipment, and what test equipment do you have for consciousness anyway?
even a conversation does not prove you were not talking with yourself.

the shape of the fuel, the breezes in the air, these are what make the flames dance in my opinion. but watching them is worth doing for hours if you can.
this shapes your consciousness - and that is the artful life.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShr00mEater
Strange
Male

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
Re: are fires aware [Re: kitten6]
    #26556452 - 03/25/20 07:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kitten6 said:
but how can you prove that it isn't conscious. Not just noise.




How can you prove I don’t have 6 arms and two heads?

Ideally, you should show some positive evidence for your hypothesis. Is there any reason to think fire might be conscious?

You mentioned a fire “looking back at you”, how is a fire able to see? Or, the idea that it is a vibration, do all things with vibration possess consciousness, or only some things?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOvoidhunter
Buttery Crescent
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/16
Posts: 2,016
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: are fires aware [Re: kitten6]
    #26556457 - 03/25/20 07:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kitten6 said:
So, i light a fire, light a zigorette or whatever.

When it is on fire, is it alive, is it sentient, when you look into it, does it look back a you?

It's alive i think. What do you think?





Yeah the fires in Australia was like "time to kill" "burn the innocent" "especially the koalas!".  So it was.

Those fires were dicks man.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShr00mEater
Strange
Male

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
Re: are fires aware [Re: Ovoidhunter]
    #26556613 - 03/25/20 08:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ovoidhunter said:
Quote:

kitten6 said:
So, i light a fire, light a zigorette or whatever.

When it is on fire, is it alive, is it sentient, when you look into it, does it look back a you?

It's alive i think. What do you think?





Yeah the fires in Australia was like "time to kill" "burn the innocent" "especially the koalas!".  So it was.

Those fires were dicks man.




Nah, fires aren’t assholes. They are simply going about their business following their instincts. Fires were evolved/created to destroy and consume physical materials. It’s how they survive, feed and reproduce. Fires don’t pick and choose who or what they burn up, they have an amoral consciousness and will burn up anything they can. They are also not aware of how dickish they seem to us.

It’s like a cougar attacking and killing an antelope. The cougar doesn’t hate the antelope, but he sure as hell is going to tear that antelope into pieces and eat him.

Koalas are nasty little things in the wild anyway. Fuck them. The fire was doing gods work IMO.

Plug me in for team “fire is awesome”


:grin:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
Re: are fires aware [Re: kitten6]
    #26556683 - 03/25/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kitten6 said:
but how can you prove that it isn't conscious. Not just noise.





Well I'm saying it does have a proto-consciousness. But not at all in the way an organism does.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: are fires aware [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26556738 - 03/25/20 10:04 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shr00mEater said:
Quote:

kitten6 said:
but how can you prove that it isn't conscious. Not just noise.




How can you prove I don’t have 6 arms and two heads?

Ideally, you should show some positive evidence for your hypothesis. Is there any reason to think fire might be conscious?

You mentioned a fire “looking back at you”, how is a fire able to see? Or, the idea that it is a vibration, do all things with vibration possess consciousness, or only some things?




Yeah, he can't prove it but that's ok. Many reasons to think it is alive or could be alive.

"Do photons have awareness" is a interesting side thread, pretty heavy on the science.


--------------------
🌸🌸🌸


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: are fires aware [Re: AZZI] * 1
    #26556757 - 03/25/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Kitten,

For interest, at least three belief systems I thought of immediately would support your idea.

Shamanism says that all things are alive.
Check out the 5 Stones of Shamanism.

Japanese or Shinto state that all things, animate and inanimate, have soul.

Which is why for them, blending of biological and synthetic life is more natural blend... 
Since all have a soul, machines and such are more worthy of care, and treatment with love and such.

Lastly SacCidAnanda is a term for Creator/Creation in Hinduism, Existence-Consciousness-Bliss.

But, all things are created by consciousness in this view.


--------------------
🌸🌸🌸


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: are fires aware [Re: AZZI]
    #26556769 - 03/25/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

No, your aware of fire, not the other way around. Look at the aggregates of Fire, no sentience arising from the heap of them.

At least, that would be the biochemical view of it.  Within that view (field of study of science) it is not placed in any domain of life, hence it is not alive as defined by the broad definition or strict definition of life.

Does the appearance of aliveness, ie. Movement, flexibility, growth, response to the environment, , things that fire can do, mean that its alive, or just seems so?  It is not composed of cells, which is the very definition most widely accepted as being the minimum requirement for a living thing.  No cell or cells in fire itself.

Applying another view, of say tengerism (what you call shamanism) or huichol views, I guess in an artistic-poetic way you can define it as

Animate.  But that’s not the same as alive.

Also, if something is not defined as alive, doesn’t mean it’s dead in westernism ( which is a sketchy deinfition itself) , instead it’s inanimate.

On the subatomic level, things appear appear animate, same for the quantum, but it is beyond the word living, and not the same as it.

That’s not a good thing or bad thing, just In accordance with things as best we know, as we can tell right now. 


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (03/25/20 10:29 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: are fires aware [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26556771 - 03/25/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It's only Westernism that says everything is dead.

Pretty much every other culture says the opposite.


--------------------
🌸🌸🌸


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShr00mEater
Strange
Male

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
Re: are fires aware [Re: AZZI]
    #26557030 - 03/25/20 12:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Hm. I don’t think western science is saying “everything is dead”.

Only the things that don’t possess certain qualities recognized as “aliveness” would be considered “not living”. Also, “not living” is not the same as “dead”. Dead would indicate the subject was previously alive.

Pretty much every culture could be wrong? How could we know?

Another interesting thought as far as word usage goes. In language, We do say the fire is dying right before we feed it. We will casually say a fire jumps and dances. We recognize it needs to breathe, if it is smothered it will die. Maybe we can bring it back to life with some dry tinder.

Wether fire has consciousness or not, it appears that our linguistic conventions do highlight the similarity it shares in our minds with other living things.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,884
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
Re: are fires aware [Re: Shr00mEater] * 2
    #26557194 - 03/25/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

My candle told me this thread is really insightful


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: are fires aware [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26557214 - 03/25/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

ROFL LLLLLLLLLLLLLL HA.

Sketchy?  Illgell you what's Extremely fuckin' sketchy.

Post in a line then change it.

(Not talking about you of course ShroomE.)

Anyway Sun Up.

I wasn't arguing just sharing some facts.

Wezternizm says all is dead.

Sup Nietzsche.

Here's a tangent for ya.

Zarathustra said - don't ask me to remember the reason for my opinions!

It's enough to remember the opinions.

Said that in aphorisms.

Anyway -- relation to a memory of mine..

End of tangent :smile:

Anyway :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It was about - negative view and I'll will....

25 years ago or so (give or take)

I realized a smart clue about that.

Yeah clues. :wink: :laugh:

Don't be annoyed :smile:

It takes a lot to leave clues

Shroomy knows what I'm sayin' :smile:

Nah I ain't ramblin'.

Down and out -- Alan Watts said -- don't and at last out, as he put it, into divinity. Or out of the labyrynth.

Or up and out - back out of the rabbit hole.

(Yeah I was watchin' Matrix for a hot second)

Only belittle clues if you worship the Unholy anti-God called persuasion.

And yes I know, now I've rambled.

:heartpump: :love:


--------------------
🌸🌸🌸


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: are fires aware [Re: Kickle]
    #26557217 - 03/25/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
My candle told me this thread is really insightful




Hella nice bro. I saw yo posts in the atomic awareness tread. Photon awareness.

:sun:


--------------------
🌸🌸🌸


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAZZI
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/19
Posts: 239
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: are fires aware [Re: AZZI]
    #26557233 - 03/25/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Anyway, to be blunt and witty, and true,
Life and death are one. Two sides of one coin.

So what is that coin? Life and death.

There is a beautiful conversation between Anubis, and a person he did a beautiful, horrible trick to, about this.

He asks him about life and death, as a conversation starter, and explains that aren't two things, but only
One,
  And goes on to explain about the Worlds of Life, guided by Thoth, and the worlds of death, led by him.

And of course he's all lying, but it's a beautiful piece of philosophy j
in the midst of all this.

Set, in the midst of all this, is his - temporarily - personal servant, having been given a grafted body of sustounding proportions, and of course, taken of all memory.

In the book, Creatures.

Loved your post Shroom, I'm just biding time while walking in the World of Life.

Sunny and flowery

Love,
Azzi


--------------------
🌸🌸🌸


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* A sentient universe shroommachine 545 2 11/13/05 09:05 PM
by Moonshoe
* Humanity truly a sentient species? Randolph_Carter 1,066 11 12/02/03 01:13 PM
by Phred
* The Sentient Spirit
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 3,064 51 10/06/04 12:32 PM
by trendal
* Awareness? Consciousness? Clockwork? MXNR 508 8 08/23/05 10:51 AM
by BlueCoyote
* Sentient Beings teen 909 9 09/17/04 12:23 AM
by Diploid
* Does A Photon Have Awareness?
( 1 2 all )
DiploidM 2,902 28 05/04/05 04:27 PM
by cubed
* Electric Fire.... (Soul and Spirit....) eMotionALLmotion 611 0 05/22/05 11:37 AM
by eMotionALLmotion
* Consciousness due to Awareness: AI content.
( 1 2 all )
IgnatiusJReilly 2,610 20 09/12/05 05:02 AM
by redgreenvines

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
500 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.