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InvisibleHartford
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How to heal people in Jesus' name * 1
    #26553640 - 03/23/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Let's devote a thread to faith healing  experiments.

Anybody do that sort of thing here?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford] * 2
    #26553857 - 03/23/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

1.) Go to medschool, become a physician.
2.). Work in hospital, find sick kid.
3.)  Treat sick kid for their illness.
4.). After treatment takes hold, and the patient recovers from the illness, declare credit of aforementioned to someone named Jesus.


101 On How To Heal, In The Name of Jesus.

Did I do it right? :jimmies:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26553871 - 03/23/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

From the Forum Rules:

2) Be respectful. Please always respect the beliefs and thread guidelines of other members.
3) Mocking others beliefs is not allowed. Making posts or threads that mock in a ridiculing manner will not be tolerated. For skeptic vs believer style debates on spiritual issues, visit the Philosophy, Sociology and Psychology board.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26553917 - 03/23/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Playful jest is not disrespect.


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26553920 - 03/23/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
From the Forum Rules:

2) Be respectful. Please always respect the beliefs and thread guidelines of other members.
3) Mocking others beliefs is not allowed. Making posts or threads that mock in a ridiculing manner will not be tolerated. For skeptic vs believer style debates on spiritual issues, visit the Philosophy, Sociology and Psychology board.




Im sorry but faith healing is ridiculous and dangerous.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26553925 - 03/23/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
1.) Go to medschool, become a physician.
2.). Work in hospital, find sick kid.
3.)  Treat sick kid for their illness.
4.). After treatment takes hold, and the patient recovers from the illness, declare credit of aforementioned to someone named Jesus.


101 On How To Heal, In The Name of Jesus.

Did I do it right? :jimmies:





How about go to them, make friends. Carry on a conversation. If they make friends with you and try to keep the conversation going, find out their spiritual trajectory by asking them if they’ve heard of the Bible and how much they’ve learned about it, the symptoms and duration of their condition, and whether or not they are harboring any unforgiveness or ill-will against anyone.

If their illness does not seem to coincide with the rejection of the true gospel and they harbor no unforgiveness or ill-will against anyone, ask if they would like to be a disciple to learn the mystical knowledge of the universe, though it be somewhat opposite business as usual. If they can assure you that they would be a learner on the path of discipleship, with the strength to stand up for God despite great opposition from family and friends, ask them if they believe that one of his disciples could be given power to heal them for the glory of the Jesus of Matthew, Mark and John. If they say, Yes! and it is evident that they are persuaded of the benefits of moral truth despite great opposition, the spirit of their disease should be commanded to leave and not return in the name of Jesus of Nazareth.


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Offlinebanquet
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford]
    #26553929 - 03/23/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Let's devote a thread to faith healing  experiments.

Anybody do that sort of thing here?




Faith Healing? are you mad! there is no faith healing!
how dare you speak of faith you infrarational superstitious moron!
this ain't no faith country here we need clinical trials to cure...
here we take chemicals and drugs to heal and cure, faith is just your imagination...

nah forget it... miracles happen and don't leave a proof, faith healing happens and doesn't reveal its truth...
man we live in this scientific world where these words make you feel like a lunatic

when these people realise how to leave their body and move in the air watching your body lying and touching it with your subtle body, then they will wake up...

but no thats just a hallucination, oh i was just dreaming, and i can do that again and again, verify it like a science, keep a diary of all the wanderings out of my body, around my body, hovering over it.

these people can't see the back of their head, because their consciousness is trapped in their physical brain...

i just don't know when the mass will wake up, but when it does there will be such an outcry of emotions against material science


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Offlinebanquet
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford]
    #26553934 - 03/23/20 08:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Let's devote a thread to faith healing  experiments.

Anybody do that sort of thing here?





jesus did some healing, now they doubt existence of jesus himself, he still hangs on the cross as a sign of SUFFERING but that was to show us that he is ABOVE SUFFERING...

now they will call you a mad man again...


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: banquet]
    #26553955 - 03/23/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If the hecklers could suspend their disbelief for a bit, we might be able to have a neat dialogue on how to heal people. And it happens, so...maybe you guys are more afraid of it working than if it failed, because it would shatter your sentiments


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: banquet]
    #26553957 - 03/23/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

How far do you take faith healing?
I believe i was misunderstood earlier.  I grew up in and surrounded by a wonderful Roman Catholic community, Jeebs is a great role model for some people, I know.  But, due to my line of work that my family is in, we known everything has its place.  We don’t believe faith healing has a role during certain medical procedures and treatments, however, the comfort it brings to those already predisposed to the Christian faith, or those open to it, can have a very comforting effect on those dealing with and recovering from illness.

Time and place, that’s all.  That’s also taught in the Bible, and linked to its various authors teachings on discernment throughout the book.

Nothing against it, unless it misused and thus abused by individuals who are ignorant of a situations reality.

So, If i was amongst friends and told that joke, it would be received welcomely, so I will chalk up its reception in this thread to internet related misunderstanding.

Now that the disclaimers been said, how about discussing the proper roles for faith healing?  I’m game.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26554055 - 03/23/20 09:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I'm taking about lyme disease, herpes, aids, hepatitis, cancer, diabetes, blindness, arthritis, schizophrenia, headaches, mental retardation, corona virus, depression, alcoholism, Parkinson's, dementia, ect. in people who are open-minded and in a free country


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InvisibleShenmue
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Posts: 2,514
Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford]
    #26554086 - 03/23/20 09:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

:jesusmagic:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford]
    #26554103 - 03/23/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sure, as an adjunctive measure.  You have any of those disorders/diseases/illnesses/conditions?  Some are very serious, others not so much.
Severely Metastasized cancer is nearly impossible to recover from.  Everyone in medicine knows of the 1 in a billion Hail Mary healing, but they are 1 in a billion.  Are you trying to focus on that kind of thing?  Also, developed Parkinson’s and dementia are chronic and due to organic damage/mutation/changes.  Its extremely irresponsible to suggest faith healing for them.  I’m as open minded as I can be without my brains falling out of my skull, but the truth is that you weren’t alive 2,000 years ago, and don’t know the actual man Jesus and whatever he did to allegedly heal the sick,  so I ask - not in disrespect, but out of curiosity and respect, what do you suppose in cases like the above?

Myself, and most my family are in the medical profession in the US, however we all have faith and are not myopic in our views to healing.  Working in nursing homes, hospitals, and private practice as a family for 40+ years (myself <10yr) have seen many use faith healing, practice it themselves, and have others practice it for them; but, the ones who are really sick do not rely on it solely, because to do so would be foolish.

Having faith in the practices of a trained and responsible physician, nurse, PA, or Emt or anything else is a wonderful gift.  Using their knowledge of the world and their experiences we/they rely upon what the world that we live in, and what is available to us to help heal the sick.  Medicines both synthetic and natural have their origins inextricably tied to the world/universe we live in, relying upon chemistry, biology, anatomy, botany, mycology, physics, mathematics, engineering and more to eventually distill a treatment that works specially for the intended malady that someone is suffering from.

These things all, if your in the faith/ or really - any faith- come from the world, and thus come from God (if you identify with any of the 3 big world religions : Christianity, Islam, Judaism ).  And according to that line of thinking, he made the universe and everything in it, thus he made the world, thus he made all things in the world, thus he had a hand in the discovery of all the sciences that rely upon the natural world for their making, thus when a person (that god made) uses the world and our learning of it to develop a treatment for a certain malady - and you subscribe to any of those 3 faiths - then you see that God included the potential for healing right into the very fabric of matter itself, for our bodies are composed of matter , least so far as we can measure and know quantifiably, and all composed compounded things are temporary and break down and are subject to sickness and death - so he put a measure in the essence of things so as to balance the scales for the time we find ourselves upon this earth, aka our life.

Taking medicine, of any kind, it too can have a component of faith healing.  Words themselves can act like medicine - but they are not strictly speaking the exact same as the composition of a medicine that relies upon a specific chemical structure dictated by the aggregates of its structure (elements/atoms).  Words spoken out loud or in the mind silently are not able to reverse organic damage, largely because they lack the power to do so in that they are composed of waves that move the atmosphere around us in a way as to signal our intricate anatomy within the ear to be transcribed upon its mechanisms and converted into nerve signals which thus release chemical signals for cellular operations to perform their genetic DNA dictated potentials and carry the signal to various parts of the brain were incalculable processes are done by little cells of differing kinds to then allow the individual person to be able to recognize the varying movements in another’s speech as it affects the air and the body itself - as a language with innate meaning based upon predetermined symbols which mean something universal to those who share the same language and only differ slightly in the minds of those who speak the words and sound them out (albeit basically the same with minor variation).  Medicines , however, have a very specific function - or if they dont (some have general functions) they still hit a target that allows a certain operation to be performed in the body that a trained physician or individual will use to alleviate a malady or its symptoms.


But simply wishing for something to be a different way than it already is by beseeching the lord is foolish when he gave us the ability to use all his creation with wisdom to heal as needed.  We have a mind and a heart, and so we learn, and find that these things help us to discover what already is, and with a bit of the human hand, gods creation becomes a tool to help the sick, just like in improper instances of living - or unfortunately, accidentally, it can also cause maladies ( the natural world can, as we all know - viruses, bacteria, plants, chemicals, animals - all manner of things can hurt or help.  And it depends on how its used.  Magical powers are not a part of medicine simply because those who purport to know how to use them, if they did could simply prove it by curing the incurable maladies that millions upon millions suffer from - it would be that simple if it were truly magical wouldn’t it.

A Buddhist monastery I’m associated with has a temple in the states which resides on an island.  There they have a special hospice where the very ill and dying go to leave the world with comfort and ease.  At this location, spirituality, mysticism, and medicine all come together and coalesce.  It’s a beautiful thing that the monks and medical practitioners do together there- taking care with love and kindness and all the benefits of modern medicine and ancient wisdom and alternative medicine (aka lesser known medical practices to the west/USA - but not other parts of the world and their history - Chinese medical practice, Japanese, Indian, Mexican, and more) But the fact remains the same, it is a hospice on the grounds of a monastery, and as amazing as it is, a.hospice is where people go when they are very sick to die.

God bless their souls and ours, and may this contribute to awakening of the pure mind of all beings.


Please feel free to add anything you feel i missed, because I know i did.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (03/23/20 10:14 PM)


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OfflineSavantfou
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford]
    #26554181 - 03/23/20 10:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

A friend of mine does
He tried many times before seeing result,
I'm beggining in the path of JEsus and personally wouldn't try because I feel it is dependant on the faith of the receiver also.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford]
    #26554480 - 03/24/20 05:58 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

One theory suggests diseases are caused by demons through sin and can be cured without one actually hearing the words, organ damage included


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Savantfou]
    #26554483 - 03/24/20 06:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Savantfou: have you witnessed anything?  What's his method?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: Hartford]
    #26554522 - 03/24/20 06:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry, that’s not a theory, but rather someone’s , or some peoples untested hypothesis, but in a poetic way it makes adequate sense to both those outside the medical profession and those within it.  Perhaps you see this distinction as too pedantic, but it is accurate and 3xplains how such a view came about.  No one wants just a faith healer when you are in serious excruciating pain with myriad forms of symptoms that can debilitate you for life and if untreated will cause death, they want someone who has the expertise , discernment , and knowledge, ability, and tools of the trade to help heal the body-mind-spirit. 

However, long ago before we could perceive the things on earth that cause maladies via our actual senses, they were often referred to as spirits, evil spirits, and later demons.  But that definition only held so long as a placeholder till medical esoteric and exoteric knowledge and experience and technological developments evolved to the point that we find ourselves with today.  But humans  and animals have been prone to an innumerable number of maladies throughout and since the beginning of the origin of their respected species, so until we grew and learned enough over time via trial and error- some sort of explanation and attempt to heal- weather real or imagined in its effects as helpful in treating the person- and thus such practices of faith healing, ie shamanism and its closely related offshoots emerged and still play a role in the world today.  If you read the Bible, specifically the accounts of his healing and miracles , and compare them across history and throughout time to various shamans and religious men and sage set - you will find a perennial theme that parallels across time, through the earth, ie, the same healings, and miracles, and supernatural abilities and attributing stories glorifying them all across written works.  Once you have studied enough, Jesus presents the same as many others.  And this doesn’t take away from his eligibility goodness, rather it compounds it in that many have done the same and so give credit to him by having mimicking stories before the Bible, and after the Bible, and in return he give s credit to many of them.  All that differs is mainly culturally significant, the essence is one and the same.

Most people will never know the intricate history that backs up our current knowledge and experience at the highest level of our understanding unless they have professional training in the higher levels of academic sciences (ie ba-phd level).  Because of this it’s simply easier for many to rely on a more primitive understanding of the subject of disease causing agents-  not that there’s something inherently wrong with a simplistic view of things, but that simplistic views often lend themselves to being applied erroneously in cases were complexity is a a factor in understanding things as close to the truth as we can.

That is, unless your referring to microbes, viruses, bacteria, and fungi - I.e. potential malady causing agents, as being akin to demonic .

That I could get behind, as there is a tinge of truthfulness to it in an analogous way.  If you define demon for me, I may better understand your views yet.  Because they require a magnified, extended,aperature capable of allowing the human eye the ability to perceive them as they exist in nature,  it’s simply easier for those who don’t need to have a more deeply esoteric  and complex understanding of the phenomena behind diseases and non healthy conditions, to imagine the cause of such phenomena using a simplistic imagery which gets a basic point across.

Akin to how we use myth and fairy tales that hold untruths and lies, to impart wisdom and truths to children in a way that they can reap some benefit from their understanding via a simple dualistic understanding.  Children will only understand the full extent of such methods of adults when they become adults themselves, until then they lack the actual capacity to know more fully.

Also, if someone could treat organ damage by mere intent or with magic words, it would be used, lol.  Unfortunately that kind of thinking is quite dangerous, because it’s applying imaginative thinking or intent and implying that it actually can repair a damaged organ.  If someone needs quadruple bypass surgery,  sure they have a decent chance of having committed the win of gluttony and maybe even sloth, but to think a truly damaged heart, or eye , that has undergone massive cellular death in its tissues, can spontaneously regenerate just because one wishes it or wills it, points to a level of ignorance that unfortunately ( I wish this were not the case and the opposite we re true- but reality doesn’t work that way for humans, we are not almighty gods capable of bending the fabric of reality to our willful whims, no matter how great the intent or how good the intent or reason - regardless of what any book tells you - to know for yourself just chop off your pinky at the place it connects to the base of your hand, and try and grow it back using the erroneous “theory” you mentioned, hell even allow every faith healer in the world to try too-  it won’t grow back, and that’s a fact that can’t be changed at the moment- forget fantasy hypothesis’s, right now it can’t be done) cause much more harm than good. 

So, perhaps re-examining how faith healing can play a role in disease processes is needed by this community.  I’m sure it can be fine tuned and used for some good, without causing potential harm,  but that requires wisdom and discernment and knowledge, not fantasy masquerading as an actual solution, especially if it’s in liu of potentialy existing solutions we already know of to the various maladies humans suffer from that actually work, or have a degree or chance of working.

Op
You seem to put great stock in things you have yet to fully vet, beware of the error of fixating on something that is actually nothing.


God bless


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Edited by The Blind Ass (03/24/20 07:07 AM)


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' name [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26554547 - 03/24/20 07:13 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Let's say someone commits a crime and is plagued with depression which is brought on by an internal dialogue suggesting iminite retribution. The only relief seems to be medication, but if we educate them about how justice is served, we can treat the depression without drugs. That is the essence of faith healing imo


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' n [Re: Hartford]
    #26555345 - 03/24/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I Think your in the ball park of the right track with that one. :thumbup:


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: How to heal people in Jesus' n [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26555362 - 03/24/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Religion and superstition were used to explain things before we had science

Even though we have science now, some people still want to hold onto the ignorant and ineffective ways of understanding things

There isn't a lot that logically thinking people can do to change the minds of the willfully ignorant and for the most part I don't think we "science minded people" try to change their minds. In contrast, people that believe in religion and superstition seem to try real hard to get believe on board with the Jesus train


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