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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545759 - 11/16/21 01:10 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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koods said: I’ve addressed them all and I’m done with it. Good luck
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koods said:
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I really don't see how boosters for life is a good solution to a problem that only has a 0.044% chance of being a problem
You don’t need boosters for life to avoid hospitalization. You just need one shot for that and you’re good for life. That is t-cell and b-cell based immunity and that doesn’t really fade over time.
If you want to avoid getting infected then you’d need boosters every so often - once every year or two years. Like the flu shots. Protection against infection requires circulating antibodies and those fade and require another exposure to the antigen to get boosted. T-cells are permanent. Antibodies aren’t.
Can you provide sources that show one booster is sufficiently protecting against hospitalization (over a sufficiently long timeframe)? Also, can you provide a source that boosters as far apart as once a year, or even two years, are sufficient to prevent infection?
I've seen evidence to the contrary for both of these claims, so I'm skeptical. I've seen data, which I've already supplied, suggesting efficacy wanes in short as 3 months. I've also seen data, which I'll for now, that shows hospitalization uptick among vaccinated around this same time. I understand antibodies are not permanent, and some forms of immunity such as T-cells are, but COVID infects quickly, and only data can really prove these claims.
Fauci himself just said the other day that continual boosters may become the standard regimen to maintain full vaccination. If that's the solution on the table, and re-vaccination needs to occur every 3-6 months, well obviously I don't like that solution for myself.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 01:13 PM)
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koods
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Uninsured and unvaccinated. I can’t imagine a bigger group of freeloaders. .
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27545764 - 11/16/21 01:12 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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And Koodz, do you accept that natural immunity may be superior? Here is evidence against your claim that 'one booster is enough to prevent hospitalization for life', this article demonstrates that 60% of Israel's cases for some time were fully vaccinated: https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 01:16 PM)
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christopera
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27545769 - 11/16/21 01:14 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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How about the natural freeloaders? You keep ignoring that.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27545786 - 11/16/21 01:28 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
junk_f00d said: And Koodz, do you accept that natural immunity may be superior? Here is evidence against your claim that 'one booster is enough to prevent hospitalization for life', this article demonstrates that 60% of Israel's cases for some time were fully vaccinated: https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta
No evidence in the real world of waning effectiveness. Consistently for the past year vaccinated people have made up 2% of hospitalizations. This week it’s 0%

Current Israeli data. Hospitalizations practically non existent in the vaccinated population (greens)
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (11/16/21 01:35 PM)
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545792 - 11/16/21 01:32 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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koods said: No evidence in the real world of waning effectiveness. Consistently for the past year vaccinated people have made up 2% of hospitalizations. This week it’s 0%

What? There's tons of evidence for waning effectiveness, this is a flat out lie on your part and you need to educate yourself here.
Here's one right here: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114228, and just look at what Israel's put out, they've been struggling with waning effectiveness for some time now, tons of evidence on a real world 'macro' scale. I can't believe you think this doesn't exist.
Here's a quote from Fauci
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"They are seeing a waning of immunity not only against infection but against hospitalization and to some extent death, which is starting to now involve all age groups. It isn't just the elderly," Fauci said. "It's waning to the point that you're seeing more and more people getting breakthrough infections, and more and more of those people who are getting breakthrough infections are winding up in the hospital."
This is why you need to actually address what I'm saying and stop acting like you know everything and I know nothing. I really can't believe you're so mistaken here. The waning efficacy has been core to my argument this whole time.
We already talked about your Israel data yesterday and why it's irrelevant, without more context it's useless.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 01:38 PM)
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27545798 - 11/16/21 01:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just posted actual Israeli data. Not a sample. The entire population.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545801 - 11/16/21 01:38 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Israel relied on the demonstrably suboptimal 3 week interval of the Pfizer. As you can see there is almost no hospitalization in the booster group which is now 4 months out for the most part
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545803 - 11/16/21 01:39 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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koods said: I just posted actual Israeli data. Not a sample. The entire population.
OK? Israel's been on the forefront of discussing and studying waning efficacy. The study I linked took place in Israel specifically, concluding waning efficacy is certainly occurring. This is a known fact at this point.
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junk_f00d


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545806 - 11/16/21 01:40 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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koods said: Israel relied on the demonstrably suboptimal 3 week interval of the Pfizer. As you can see there is almost no hospitalization in the booster group which is now 4 months out for the most part
Koodz you're being delusional, the whole world is aware of waning efficacy. I haven't seen any study that shows it doesn't wane.
And no, I can't see anything from that chart other than colored bars. I won't conclude anything from that. But if I were too, I'd wait to see how the 4 month cases changed once they hit 6 months. 3 months is about where efficacy seems to begin waning significantly, so we'd just now be seeing the trend form.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 01:42 PM)
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545807 - 11/16/21 01:42 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Show me the waning efficacy here. This is the entire population of a city that maxed out on its vaccinations in April. It’s not there. You can cry all you want about what you’ve read. Doesn’t exist in the real world in America
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545812 - 11/16/21 01:45 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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koods said: Show me the waning efficacy here. This is the entire population of a city that maxed out on its vaccinations in April. It’s not there. You can cry all you want about what you’ve read. Doesn’t exist in the real world in America

Then why are American, Israel and global health officials confirming, with consensus, that it exist and planning on how to address it? You're saying you know better than them because of a couple screenshots? I'll look at your graph if you provide a source, but get real. You can show anything you want with cherry picked images.
Your picture alone says nothing, this is idiotic. It's just a colored chart with no details on what means what, or what % of the population is vaccinated to begin with. It's absolutely useless.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 01:47 PM)
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545814 - 11/16/21 01:47 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Get vaccinated or don’t. Just don’t get mad if you can’t go to a club or restaurant or lose your job. That’s you’re fault. I really don’t care if you get hospitalized or die since you don’t care either. Good luck. You’ll need it with your extremely poor decision making skills. 👍🏼
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545820 - 11/16/21 01:48 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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koods said: Get vaccinated or don’t. Just don’t get mad if you can’t go to a club or restaurant or lose your job. That’s you’re fault. I really don’t care if you get hospitalized or die since you don’t care either. Good luck. You’ll need it with your extremely poor decision making skills. 👍🏼
So you're again conceding without facing the facts I've presented (such as natural immunity possibly being better, my risk profile being tiny, and that efficacy does wane)? Why aren't you being open minded about the scientific consensus? Not sure why you're so stuck on refusing reality, but you're actively spreading disinfo.
If you don't accept that efficacy wanes, than I understand more about your own position than you do. It's also then implied that you have not once done an accurate risk analysis, or have even understood the solutions being proposed.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 01:57 PM)
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27545832 - 11/16/21 01:58 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Vaccine immunity is mostly only waning in the elderly/immunocompromised in terms of hospitalizations, which makes sense. Obviously the optimal vaccine dose/booster schedule isn’t dialed in yet, even for the flu the elderly are encouraged to get a higher dose vaccine because their immune system doesn’t respond as well to a dose that is sufficient for everyone else.
Even a couple months ago before boosters were widely available vaccinated people were still only making up around 4% of total hospitalizations in the US. If I do statistics junk food style it looks like choosing to get natural immunity is 96% ineffective against preventing Covid hospitalization, hella superior.
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27545833 - 11/16/21 01:59 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude just go get infected now so we don’t have to wait on you anymore before getting back to normal life. Tell your employer this is your personal choice and take the week off so they don’t have to pay your wages while you are getting your immunity. Fucking freeloader.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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christopera
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#27545835 - 11/16/21 02:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nah, I don’t want to pay his medical bills. He should get vaccinated like an adult.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: feevers]
#27545840 - 11/16/21 02:06 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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koods said: Dude just go get infected now so we don’t have to wait on you anymore before getting back to normal life. Tell your employer this is your personal choice and take the week off so they don’t have to pay your wages while you are getting your immunity. Fucking freeloader.
I'm not holding anyone back. The one's doing so are the state.
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feevers said: Vaccine immunity is mostly only waning in the elderly/immunocompromised in terms of hospitalizations, which makes sense. Obviously the optimal vaccine dose/booster schedule isn’t dialed in yet, even for the flu the elderly are encouraged to get a higher dose vaccine because their immune system doesn’t respond as well to a dose that is sufficient for everyone else.
Even a couple months ago before boosters were widely available vaccinated people were still only making up around 4% of total hospitalizations in the US. If I do statistics junk food style it looks like choosing to get natural immunity is 96% ineffective against preventing Covid hospitalization, hella superior.
It wanes in all demographics, you are wrong. But it may do so more severely/quickly in the elderly. Please show me where I've done poor statistics if you believe I have. You like to build strawmen rather than directly address what I've said, quite annoying as I don't do the same to any of you.
You're example of statistic usage there is extremely poor by the way, not sure if intentional. You'd clearly need to know respective population sizes, also preferably demographics like age, of vaccinated and unvaccinated... Please tell me this was a joke?
Here is a preprint supporting that it may wane equally across age groups:
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Patterns of breakthrough infection over time were consistent by age, despite rolling vaccine eligibility, implicating the Delta variant as the primary determinant of infection
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.13.21264966v1 https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211019/Waning-COVID-vaccine-efficacy-especially-against-reinfection.aspx
I'm not sure why you guys are so reluctant to admit natural immunity may provide superior protection. It's baffling and demonstrates that you guys aren't being open minded and just taking an honest look at the scenario. Even if staunchly pro-vaxx, you shouldn't be denying what the data and scientific institutions are concluding. And I'm not even saying it's true, it's just a possibility. It will take more studies to confirm.
Edited by junk_f00d (11/16/21 02:13 PM)
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christopera
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d]
#27545844 - 11/16/21 02:10 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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You’re not holding my insurance prices back, you’re increasing them.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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feevers


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: junk_f00d] 1
#27545848 - 11/16/21 02:15 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your first link is an abstract that says nothing and the second one has nothing to do with hospitalizations. Myself and koods already pointed out your faulty statistics twice, you responded by doubling down and somehow following it up with even worse math.
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