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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26580754 - 04/05/20 11:12 PM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Which article turned out wrong, and how?  Or do you just like to hear yourself make believe?



Quote:

The decisive factor in assessing the danger of the disease is therefore not the number of test-positive persons and deceased, which is often mentioned in the media, but the number of people actually and unexpectedly developing or dying from pneumonia (so-called excess mortality). So far, this value remains very low in most countries.




Are you kidding! There are towns in Italy where more people died in two weeks than died in the entire previous year.

The mortality rate in Spain is currently 40% higher than normal

The current mortality rate in NYC is 400% more than normal.

I don’t understand this agenda to try to argue that these deaths are caused by anything other than covid-19. If it’s not covid, then we desperately need to figure out why 600 more people than usual died in NYC yesterday.

That article  is the fucking playbook for covid denialist in this country, many of whom are influential figures in the MAGA universe and are as we speak pushing a hoax narrative, or at least downplaying the seriousness of the situation. These are people that trump retweets and undoubtedly influence his thinkng.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #26580792 - 04/05/20 11:31 PM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

The decisive factor in assessing the danger of the disease is therefore not the number of test-positive persons and deceased, which is often mentioned in the media, but the number of people actually and unexpectedly developing or dying from pneumonia (so-called excess mortality). So far, this value remains very low in most countries.



There are towns in Italy where more people died in two weeks than died in the entire previous year.

The mortality rate in Spain is currently 40% higher than normal

The current mortality rate in NYC is 400% more than normal.

I don’t understand this agenda to try to argue that these deaths are caused by anything other than covid-19. If it’s not covid, then we desperately need to figure out why 600 more people than usual died in NYC yesterday.



I'm not disagreeing with your figures, nor is the article, but you clearly misunderstood the point, which is what was stated above.

The point is that the vast majority of people who die have existing chronic disease, NOT that coronavirus didn't contribute to their death.

Quote:

koods said:
That article  is the fucking playbook for covid denialist in this country, many of whom are influential figures in the MAGA universe and are as we speak pushing a hoax narrative, or at least downplaying the seriousness of the situation. These are people that trump retweets and undoubtedly influence his thinkng.



Again, you clearly misunderstood the article.  It's saying coronavirus is much more dangerous among people with existing chronic conditions.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26580876 - 04/06/20 12:50 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Which article turned out wrong, and how?  Or do you just like to hear yourself make believe?



Quote:

Furthermore, studies have shown that the internationally used virus test kits may give a false positive result in some cases. In these cases, the persons may not have contracted the new coronavirus, but presumably one of the many existing human coronaviruses that are part of the annual (and currently ongoing) common cold and flu epidemics. (1)




Completely absurd. False positives may be caused by contamination or environmental sources of the novel virus. Cold viruses and flu viruses do not have the same RNA. False positives are rare and from an epidemiological perspective, an insignificant consideration.

There are a lot of false negatives. The swabs need to collect viral particles from the sinus cavity or throat to test positve. There are many reasons why this technique may fail. A lack of mucous. Gastrointestinal infection without respiratory manifestations. Etc. People who are just recently symptomatic may not be shedding enough virus to be detected. Etc.

Quote:

Thus the most important indicator for judging the danger of the disease is not the frequently reported number of positively-tested persons and deaths, but the number of persons actually and unexpectedly developing or dying from pneumonia (so-called excess mortality).




Yeah the fact that we are running out of ventilators isn’t enough proof?

Not all people are dying from respiratory failure. There are a significant number of people who die of cardiac arrest due to arrhythmias not related to breathing problems.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] * 2
    #26580879 - 04/06/20 12:57 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Again, you clearly misunderstood the article.  It's saying coronavirus is much more dangerous among people with existing chronic conditions.



Hasn’t that been the fucking mantra since day one? We all know this.

What this article is saying is that old and sick people die anyways so what’s the big deal.

What this article doesn’t seem to address is that maybe the old and infirm succumb to the burden of being so sick with covid, but the young still get extremely ill. Median hospitalization ages are 50-60 years old. That means just as many people under 55 are on ventilators and over 55. This isn’t simply a black and white, either you die or you live. Many people who live only do so after weeks of incredibly intensive medical care.

This disease is far more serious than the Spanish flu. If covid happened in 1918, before modern medicine and mechanical ventilators and antibiotics and ability to test for it or even the knowledge it was a virus, it would have killed 10-15% of the human population.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #26580917 - 04/06/20 02:15 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Furthermore, studies have shown that the internationally used virus test kits may give a false positive result in some cases. In these cases, the persons may not have contracted the new coronavirus, but presumably one of the many existing human coronaviruses that are part of the annual (and currently ongoing) common cold and flu epidemics. (1)



Completely absurd. False positives may be caused by contamination or environmental sources of the novel virus. Cold viruses and flu viruses do not have the same RNA. False positives are rare and from an epidemiological perspective, an insignificant consideration.

There are a lot of false negatives. The swabs need to collect viral particles from the sinus cavity or throat to test positve. There are many reasons why this technique may fail. A lack of mucous. Gastrointestinal infection without respiratory manifestations. Etc. People who are just recently symptomatic may not be shedding enough virus to be detected. Etc.



The article referenced a Canadian Journal of Infectious Diseases and Medical Microbiology study that showed false positive results in some cases.

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Thus the most important indicator for judging the danger of the disease is not the frequently reported number of positively-tested persons and deaths, but the number of persons actually and unexpectedly developing or dying from pneumonia (so-called excess mortality).



Yeah the fact that we are running out of ventilators isn’t enough proof?

Not all people are dying from respiratory failure. There are a significant number of people who die of cardiac arrest due to arrhythmias not related to breathing problems.



Again, you're making a point that doesn't contradict anything in the article.

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Again, you clearly misunderstood the article.  It's saying coronavirus is much more dangerous among people with existing chronic conditions.



Hasn’t that been the fucking mantra since day one? We all know this.



We know this NOW.  But the article came out before this was common knowledge.

Quote:

koods said:
What this article doesn’t seem to address is that maybe the old and infirm succumb to the burden of being so sick with covid, but the young still get extremely ill. Median hospitalization ages are 50-60 years old. That means just as many people under 55 are on ventilators and over 55. This isn’t simply a black and white, either you die or you live. Many people who live only do so after weeks of incredibly intensive medical care.

This disease is far more serious than the Spanish flu. If covid happened in 1918, before modern medicine and mechanical ventilators and antibiotics and ability to test for it or even the knowledge it was a virus, it would have killed 10-15% of the human population.



Once again, that information doesn't contradict anything in the report.  It focused on the current mortality rates.


--------------------
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26580980 - 04/06/20 03:27 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Hasn’t that been the fucking mantra since day one? We all know this.




We’ve known since very early on that was the case. January. It’s been beaten into our heads, unfortunately, and has led younger people to be very nonchalant. Now we know it can be a serious illness for anyone.

That report has a clear agenda to downplay the seriousness of covid-19. I’m not surprised you can’t recognize it. A lack of awareness that you are being manipulated is a staple of your media consumption.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] * 1
    #26581060 - 04/06/20 05:40 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Hasn’t that been the fucking mantra since day one? We all know this.




We’ve known since very early on that was the case. January. It’s been beaten into our heads, unfortunately, and has led younger people to be very nonchalant. Now we know it can be a serious illness for anyone.

That report has a clear agenda to downplay the seriousness of covid-19. I’m not surprised you can’t recognize it. A lack of awareness that you are being manipulated is a staple of your media consumption.




Hey, he isn't sure until he sees Jimmy Dore.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #26581225 - 04/06/20 08:46 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Oh koods quit acting like some kind of expert virologist. All you know is what the TV tells you.

And how can you possibly know what would have happened 100 years ago? People weren't flying all over the God damn place back then.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Ran-D]
    #26581308 - 04/06/20 09:36 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

People got around though , there were plenty of boats and trains .


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #26581461 - 04/06/20 11:11 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Again, you clearly misunderstood the article.  It's saying coronavirus is much more dangerous among people with existing chronic conditions.



Hasn’t that been the fucking mantra since day one? We all know this.



We know this NOW.  But the article came out before this was common knowledge.



Quote:

koods said:
We’ve known since very early on that was the case. January.



Source, or make believe?  We didn't even start to talk about coronavirus in this forum until 27 Feb, your first post in this forum on coronavirus was 11 Mar, and that report came out 14 Mar.  It was certainly the first I had heard about how coronavirus fatalities differs between those with chronic conditions and others.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos]
    #26581462 - 04/06/20 11:12 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Hey, he isn't sure until he sees Jimmy Dore.



:dudewtf:

Was Jimmy Dore even brought up in this thread?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26581892 - 04/06/20 02:41 PM (3 months, 2 days ago)

There’s a pub thread that started on January 20th. I had about twenty post on or before January 25th. The pub had better intel than Trump.

I posted this on the 25th

Quote:

koods said:
Reading the comments on Facebook to a New York Times article about the outbreak. There are quite a few posters from China who are saying things are far worse than being reported.



Quote:

koods said:
What are chances we see a Chinese travel ban by the end of this weekend?

I think we’ve already lost control. This stuff is chilling.

Add belgium to the list




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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #26581899 - 04/06/20 02:45 PM (3 months, 2 days ago)

Can you find a post or a news article from January showing that people with chronic illness had a far worse mortality than those without?  Your claim was that information was well known in January.


--------------------
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26581905 - 04/06/20 02:51 PM (3 months, 2 days ago)

January 28

Quote:

Asante said:
This video looked into a group of 41 patients, median age 49, that reported in.

Incubation time was about 2 weeks, then 8 days till shortness of breath by pneumonia, mortality rate was 15%, 6 patients, of which 1 without any comorbid disorders, ie a previously healthy person.

Thats VERY HIGH for something that might become a pandemic.





More info, from today, esp. regarding the US and Canada:







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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] * 1
    #26581918 - 04/06/20 03:02 PM (3 months, 2 days ago)

So the data from Swiss Propaganda Research turned out to be quite accurate after all, and validated the data taken from a sample of only six patients back in January.  :smirk:


--------------------
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26582267 - 04/06/20 05:37 PM (3 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Can you find a post or a news article from January showing that people with chronic illness had a far worse mortality than those without?  Your claim was that information was well known in January.




Feel like this is one of those "source that the sky is blue" moments.

Interesting tidbit--the W curve wasn't seen until the second wave of the Spanish Flu, the first go around was U shaped, skewed towards the elderly. That's what people are worried about: a W death curve.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos]
    #26582406 - 04/06/20 06:31 PM (3 months, 1 day ago)

What are the odds of BoJo pulling through?


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #26582435 - 04/06/20 06:43 PM (3 months, 1 day ago)

50/50.

I don't know, what's a BoJo?


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos]
    #26582616 - 04/06/20 08:02 PM (3 months, 1 day ago)

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] * 2
    #26582679 - 04/06/20 08:26 PM (3 months, 1 day ago)

This video was posted exactly 3 months ago. Crazy.


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