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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos] 1
#27479917 - 09/23/21 08:03 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: If it is entirely within the realm of mathematics, it can be definitively proven.
Science is not math. Things can be proven in math and logic. Science studies the natural world and nothing can ever be proven (no matter how pretty damn sure they are).
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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anatomality
Nothern Counterpart



Registered: 05/31/20
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Fuck I am sick of Covid. FUCK
Let's just live.
-------------------- “The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: If it is entirely within the realm of mathematics, it can be definitively proven.
Science is not math. Things can be proven in math and logic. Science studies the natural world and nothing can ever be proven (no matter how pretty damn sure they are).

Another way to put it is that science uses observations to explain the nature, when new observations are made new explanations can be made.
I already posted this elsewhere, but its a good introduction to the scientific method.
https://www.geo.sunysb.edu/esp/files/scientific-method.html
Quote:
psi said: There must be plenty of drugs that show some degree of promise as treatments though. Ivermectin (and HCQ before it) are the ones that caught the attention of the pundits though, and that seems to be the main reason we've heard about them so much.
I mostly know about it from reading studies which do not appear to be partisan. I can't comment on the pundits.
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chopstick said: Ivermectin gets a lot of attention because of the fact that it is both highly effective and because a lot of countries are making it widely available to their citizens. It's also cheap to manufacture. It has made a huge difference in India, Mexico, Japan, and other countries that haven't turned it into a political issue.
The US is retarded because it politicizes every fucking thing into a left vs. right debate. Which is sad. It needs to stop. It is costing people their lives.
I don't think Japan actually used it widely, the chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association strongly suggested at least twice that it should be investigated, but nothing ever came of that to the best of my knowledge. Is there anything I am missing?
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koods said: There have been tons of studies. That’s how we know it doesn’t work
Seriously your insistence to act like you know what you are talking about is starting to wear thin. If you want to actually discuss the data instead of being stubbornly contrarian at anything and everything please let us know! You are approaching the level of static noise.
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Kryptos
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Registered: 11/01/14
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: If it is entirely within the realm of mathematics, it can be definitively proven.
Science is not math. Things can be proven in math and logic. Science studies the natural world and nothing can ever be proven (no matter how pretty damn sure they are).
Science is not math, but math is a science. Rectangles and squares. The abstractions provided by math can lead to absolutely exact descriptions of concepts. This can give you absolutely accurate proofs of certain phenomenon. To use gravity as an example once again, nobody know how or why gravity is a thing, but using mathematics, I can definitely prove the trajectory of any object in relation to any other object. Similarly, I can use the trajectory of two objects in relation to one another to prove the existence of a third object.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos] 1
#27480003 - 09/23/21 09:35 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Math is not science, it is art. There are many mathematics applications for scientific study, but unlike math or logic scientists don't create proofs. Instead scientists offer explanations supported by real world details such as observations, explanations can be corroborated (Well supported) with repeated observations. Additionally a valid scientific theory does not require any known evidence or observations, take string theory for instance.
You may find this essay interesting.
https://www.maa.org/external_archive/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Byrain]
#27480007 - 09/23/21 09:37 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously your insistence to act like you know what you are talking about is starting to wear thin. If you want to actually discuss the data instead of being stubbornly contrarian at anything and everything please let us know! You are approaching the level of static noise.
We’ve discussed the data. You’re late to the party. Chopstick has been shilling for ivermectin for a long time.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#27480016 - 09/23/21 09:46 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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The data is a fast moving target, but its clear you would rather interject with authoritative statements about things you haven't even looked at than contribute to any discussion.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Byrain]
#27480029 - 09/23/21 09:58 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have looked.
Funny how you don’t have any issue with the people who are insisting authoritatively that ivermectin works
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/23/21 10:03 PM)
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Kryptos
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Byrain]
#27480037 - 09/23/21 10:05 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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If math is an art then science is an art. Your essay makes the distinction between real world experimentation and imaginary experimentation, which is, frankly, stupid. The entire thing is about how someone should be left to their own devices and allowed to think: what happens if I do this? Neat!
That is literally how science works.
Further, the point of art, to me, is to generate emotion. Math doesn't generate emotion, short of "Eureka!" There is no correct way to paint, but there is a correct answer to 2+2. The author of your essay repeatedly equates the two. A better title for this essay would be "Ode to a shitty teacher".
Moving on.
Scientists can absolutely create proofs of how things will happen. They may not be able to fully prove why things will happen, but they can absolutely prove how those things will happen. Often using math, because math is an exact science.
As far as string theory, that's the physics equivalent of getting really really high and saying some random dumb shit. There are no observations, there is no explanations, there is simply "what if everything were actually 11-dimensional strings, man? *bong rip*"
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos]
#27480130 - 09/23/21 11:45 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: If it is entirely within the realm of mathematics, it can be definitively proven.
Science is not math. Things can be proven in math and logic. Science studies the natural world and nothing can ever be proven (no matter how pretty damn sure they are).
Science is not math, but math is a science. Rectangles and squares. The abstractions provided by math can lead to absolutely exact descriptions of concepts. This can give you absolutely accurate proofs of certain phenomenon. To use gravity as an example once again, nobody know how or why gravity is a thing, but using mathematics, I can definitely prove the trajectory of any object in relation to any other object. Similarly, I can use the trajectory of two objects in relation to one another to prove the existence of a third object.
The things you are talking about are not science.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof
As I said only math and logic can prove anything, because they are designed to be internally cocnsistant. Science is concerned with the empirical world. You can't prove anything about gravity because gravity might work differently tomorrow.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Mach z 800
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Im getting my 4th shot this week an no side effects so far im pushing to get 7 shot total before 2022 just be head of next shot scheduling for winter.
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koods
Ribbit



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Cool story
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Mach z 800
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27480400 - 09/24/21 07:27 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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koods said: Cool story
well people should have at least 4 shots to be safe any less than that its not as effective.
I really wish biden get his mandatory vaccine mandates for business started now an not October so we can bring this new covid spike down so fsr its worse than last year for people getting it.
Edited by Mach z 800 (09/24/21 07:30 AM)
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christopera
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Trump was like the first person to get his dick enlarged via the vaccine. I bet he’s at 4 full inches after his fourth shot. Viagra be damned.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Mach z 800
Stranger


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Quote:
christopera said: Trump was like the first person to get his dick enlarged via the vaccine. I bet he’s at 4 full inches after his fourth shot. Viagra be damned.
if you dont got the shot your friends an family may dropp.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#27480512 - 09/24/21 09:13 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: I have looked.
Funny how you don’t have any issue with the people who are insisting authoritatively that ivermectin works
So did you look and now intentionally misrepresenting the information? Or are you lying about looking?
They are willing to have a conversation while you aren't. I have not heard any of them disagree that IVM has a lot of corroborating evidence that it may work and that it needs further investigation. I also pointed out how Chopstick seems to be wrong about Japan, but thanks for showing us you are still not reading.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Byrain]
#27480567 - 09/24/21 09:59 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have not seen a study that showed anything but sloppy methods and underwhelming results
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/24/21 09:59 AM)
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: If it is entirely within the realm of mathematics, it can be definitively proven.
Science is not math. Things can be proven in math and logic. Science studies the natural world and nothing can ever be proven (no matter how pretty damn sure they are).
You can prove a negative claim if it is specific enough.
A positive claim takes only a single example to prove the assertion; for example 'there are birds in this forest' is proven by identifying a single bird.
A negative claim typically is harder to prove, but a sufficiently specific claim can still be proven. 'There are no birds in this forest' would require a thorough search of the forest; 'there are no birds in this cage' would require a much simpler search of the cage.
The idea you can't prove a negative mostly arises from the question of a metaphysical deity. For similar reasons, we couldn't prove that birds don't exist.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: A positive claim takes only a single example to prove the assertion; for example 'there are birds in this forest' is proven by identifying a single bird.
The forest was chopped down to make agricultural land, now there is no forest.
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shivas.wisdom said: A negative claim typically is harder to prove, but a sufficiently specific claim can still be proven. 'There are no birds in this forest' would require a thorough search of the forest; 'there are no birds in this cage' would require a much simpler search of the cage.
After the forest survey a pair of owls flew in, there are now birds in the forest.
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