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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27440795 - 08/24/21 10:35 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Meh, Dore is just a guy. He gets some stuff right and a lot wwrong.
encouraging antiparasitic use outside of a medical setting is irresponsible though. Those meds tend to wreck livers and kidneys.

I read back in 2020 that smoking was associated with lower rates of hospitalization and mortality so maybe they're onto something with dewormers, lol, but I'm not out here encouraging people to take it up...


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27440798 - 08/24/21 10:36 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Dore isn’t evil but he definitely knows where his bread is buttered, and that’s why he’s stanning ivermectin. Same reason Glenn Greenwald is clutching his pearls about the dangers of antifa, and conflating them with fascists.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27440800 - 08/24/21 10:37 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27440803 - 08/24/21 10:38 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Dore picked the worst science out of everything available. Not only does that indicate he doesn't actually read or comprehend anything he's parroting, but that he's literally just a charlatan. How can you cherry pick all the science that's not backed up by anyone but its own authors


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27440815 - 08/24/21 10:49 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

If I only I had seen this coming , I could have went around to all of the feed stores in my area and bought up all of the dewormer . I could have bought bulk amounts and I could be selling it online or street corners right now for like a 1000% profit . 
  Lol , this is too much 

Quote:

Stores Selling Out Of Horse Dewormer Because Conservatives Falsely Think It Treats COVID




 



Quote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kfor.com/news/local/do-not-take-medicine-for-animals-oklahoma-stores-sold-out-of-horse-deworming-drug-despite-fda-warning-about-consumption/amp/




https://www.google.com/amp/s/kfor.com/news/local/do-not-take-medicine-for-animals-oklahoma-stores-sold-out-of-horse-deworming-drug-despite-fda-warning-about-consumption/amp/


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #27440859 - 08/24/21 11:16 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I get the feeling Dore views most of his segments as just auditions to get another Rogan invite. Why aim for truth and integrity when you can just grift and party on the money train


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: feevers] * 1
    #27440875 - 08/24/21 11:25 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

He can’t do that though.

An abrupt about-face on his ideology screams grift, he’s gotta maintain his lefty bona fides while carefully wading towards the online media market whose audience is primarily young and right wing, hence the constant shitting on democrats.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27440943 - 08/24/21 12:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:


Dore is a horse dewormer guy now



If you can listen to jimmy dore that's a good indicator you're a sheeple.

Anyone with half a brain gets through about two minutes of his drivel and realizes he's selling fear to idiots.



So Jimmy Dore posted a link to a research article:  Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study.

There's a lot of preliminary evidence saying that Ivermectin could possibly be helpful and that more research is needed: "Low-certainty evidence found that ivermectin prophylaxis reduced COVID-19 infection by an average 86% (95% confidence interval 79%–91%). Secondary outcomes provided less certain evidence."

I realize the studies are not conclusive yet, but the establishment is doing their best to rally people against alternatives to the big pharma vaccines (calling them "horse dewormers"), yet YOU'RE the one calling people "sheeple" and "idiots" for looking into these.  :flowstone:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27440948 - 08/24/21 12:05 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
Look at this god damn cunt:

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/08/20/cdc-director-there-is-an-increased-risk-of-severe-disease-among-those-vaccinated-early-1121545/



That entire page is groan inducing shit.



So people need a booster.  So what?  People get flu shots every year.  Why is that groan inducing?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27440953 - 08/24/21 12:09 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Meh, Dore is just a guy. He gets some stuff right and a lot wwrong.



Can you provide examples of "a lot wrong"?

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
encouraging antiparasitic use outside of a medical setting is irresponsible though.



Source, or make believe that Jimmy is encouraging use outside of a medical setting?

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Those meds tend to wreck livers and kidneys.



They can wreck livers and kidneys, if you take them outside of a medical setting, because you might take too much.

Now can you provide evidence that's Jimmy is calling for taking these outside of a medical setting?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27440961 - 08/24/21 12:13 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Dore isn’t evil but he definitely knows where his bread is buttered, and that’s why he’s stanning ivermectin.



Is he stanning it, or did he just post an article saying preliminary studies show some promise?  Are you part of the crowd saying we need to ignore alternative evidence and only buy into big pharma products?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: feevers] * 1
    #27440968 - 08/24/21 12:20 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
I get the feeling Dore views most of his segments as just auditions to get another Rogan invite. Why aim for truth and integrity when you can just grift and party on the money train



Jimmy did get another Joe Rogan invite and he talked about ivermectin here:



Rogan said we need more studies, but no one wants to study generic drugs that make no profit and Jimmy agreed.  Rogan admitted there is a lot of good preliminary information.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27440972 - 08/24/21 12:21 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
Look at this god damn cunt:

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/08/20/cdc-director-there-is-an-increased-risk-of-severe-disease-among-those-vaccinated-early-1121545/



That entire page is groan inducing shit.



So people need a booster.  So what?  People get flu shots every year.  Why is that groan inducing?  :shrug:



The style it's wrote in.
It's wrote for people who are think a booster shot means they were lied to by the government. It's wrote to fire up people that are ignorant


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27440974 - 08/24/21 12:22 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So people need a booster.  So what?  People get flu shots every year.  Why is that groan inducing?  :shrug:



The style it's wrote in.
It's wrote for people who are think a booster shot means they were lied to by the government. It's wrote to fire up people that are ignorant



Fair enough.  But a booster is a good idea.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27440999 - 08/24/21 12:42 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Dore isn’t evil but he definitely knows where his bread is buttered, and that’s why he’s stanning ivermectin.



Is he stanning it, or did he just post an article saying preliminary studies show some promise?  Are you part of the crowd saying we need to ignore alternative evidence and only buy into big pharma products?




He’s stanning it, because his audience lives in the USA where vaccines are free, much more effective, and much more available.

Everyone here knows the context, let’s not pretend otherwise.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27441004 - 08/24/21 12:46 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

There's not free though.  The Government (taxpayer) is buying them.

Jimmy Dore is vaccinated, by the way.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27441005 - 08/24/21 12:46 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

feevers said:
I get the feeling Dore views most of his segments as just auditions to get another Rogan invite. Why aim for truth and integrity when you can just grift and party on the money train



Jimmy did get another Joe Rogan invite and he talked about ivermectin here:



Rogan said we need more studies, but no one wants to study generic drugs that make no profit and Jimmy agreed.  Rogan admitted there is a lot of good preliminary information.




You realize you're talking about two people who have zero experience or training in medicine or analyzing research right?

The totality of data right now suggest ivermectin is useless against COVID. The researchers trained in analyzing the data and the makers of ivermectin themselves have explained that, and it's pretty obvious just by reviewing the current literature. Small preliminary studies don't change that, especially when some of the most cited ones have already been pulled for being fraudulent.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: feevers]
    #27441006 - 08/24/21 12:49 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
You realize you're talking about two people who have zero experience or training in medicine or analyzing research right?



So you're a doctor?

Quote:

feevers said:
The totality of data right now suggest ivermectin is useless against COVID. The researchers trained in analyzing the data and the makers of ivermectin themselves have explained that, and it's pretty obvious just by reviewing the current literature. Small preliminary studies don't change that, especially when some of the most cited ones have already been pulled for being fraudulent.



Source?  The data I've found (I gave two examples) says more research is needed, and that it's too soon use just yet.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27441023 - 08/24/21 01:09 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
There's not free though.  The Government (taxpayer) is buying them.

Jimmy Dore is vaccinated, by the way.




Yeah, everyone understands that “free at the point of service” is different than free.


--------------------


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #27441025 - 08/24/21 01:15 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

feevers said:
You realize you're talking about two people who have zero experience or training in medicine or analyzing research right?



So you're a doctor?

Quote:

feevers said:
The totality of data right now suggest ivermectin is useless against COVID. The researchers trained in analyzing the data and the makers of ivermectin themselves have explained that, and it's pretty obvious just by reviewing the current literature. Small preliminary studies don't change that, especially when some of the most cited ones have already been pulled for being fraudulent.



Source?  The data I've found (I gave two examples) says more research is needed, and that it's too soon use just yet.




Not a medical doctor, but I am trained in clinical research and have had my own work published. More research is needed because there is no evidence that ivermectin works. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, it means that the sort of claims being made around ivermectin should not be being made, because there is no conclusive evidence and instead only preliminary data suggesting the drug may be worth studying, which stands in direct contrast to the "miracle cure" title alternative media is giving the drug.

Meanwhile...

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
"-No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;

-No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;

-A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information."



Also...
Two of the largest and most cited studies were operating on made-up data and both have been pulled. When the data from these fraudulent studies is taken out of the equation, ivermectin does not work or actually makes things worse.



Study #1
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/surgisphere-sows-confusion-about-another-unproven-covid19-drug-67635
Quote:

One of the most influential studies on ivermectin’s effect in COVID-19 patients was a large observational study that used a database owned by Surgisphere, a now-discredited Illinois-based company founded by vascular surgeon Sapan Desai. That study, published on the preprint server SSRN in early April and updated a couple weeks later, reported a strong positive association between ivermectin treatment and COVID-19 patient survival, and has been cited in white papers and reports by Latin American health researchers and governments as evidence of the drug’s efficacy

But the preprint disappeared at the end of May after scientists began pointing out problems with Surgisphere’s dataset—which by that point had been used in high-profile studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) and The Lancet. Both journals issued retractions earlier this month after Desai’s coauthors said they were unable to verify the validity of Surgisphere’s COVID-19 patient data. Investigations by The Scientist and The Guardian also revealed discrepancies in Surgisphere’s claims going back years, and the company’s website has now been taken offline. Desai did not respond to multiple requests for comment from The Scientist.





#2
"Huge study supporting ivermectin as Covid treatment withdrawn over ethical concerns"
https://amp.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns

Quote:

If you remove this one study from the scientific literature, suddenly there are very few positive randomised control trials of ivermectin for Covid-19. Indeed, if you get rid of just this research, most meta-analyses that have found positive results would have their conclusions entirely reversed.”

“The authors claimed to have done the study only on 18-80 year olds, but at least three patients in the dataset were under 18,” Lawrence said.

“The authors claimed they conducted the study between the 8th of June and 20th of September 2020, however most of the patients who died were admitted into hospital and died before the 8th of June according to the raw data. The data was also terribly formatted, and includes one patient who left hospital on the non-existent date of 31/06/2020.”

There were other concerns.

“In their paper, the authors claim that four out of 100 patients died in their standard treatment group for mild and moderate Covid-19,” Lawrence said. “According to the original data, the number was 0, the same as the ivermectin treatment group. In their ivermectin treatment group for severe Covid-19, the authors claim two patients died, but the number in their raw data is four.”

Lawrence and the Guardian sent Elgazzar a comprehensive list of questions about the data, but did not receive a reply. The university’s press office also did not respond.







Not to mention even the preliminary in-vitro studies that sparked most of this research had to use doses that are literally not even obtainable in humans to cause an effect, and everything kills COVID in-vitro.

Quote:

The available pharmacokinetic data for ivermectin indicate that at the doses routinely used for the management of parasitic diseases the SARS-CoV-2 inhibitory concentrations are practically not attainable. At present any empiric treatment with ivermectin or its inclusion in therapeutic protocols are not scientifically justifiable. The very consideration of the drug as a broad spectrum antiviral agent is incorrect because it has failed to demonstrate antiviral effects beyond the in vitro level. Pending the paucity of reliable data from controlled studies and the aforementioned pharmacokinetic considerations, the application of ivermectin in COVID-19 patients is to be decisively discouraged."

"The analyzed data show that, at least at the clinically relevant dose ranges of ivermectin, the published in vitro inhibitory concentrations and especially the 5 µmol/L level causing almost total disappearance of viral RNA are virtually not achievable with the heretofore known dosing regimens in humans. The 5 µmol/L concentration is over 50 times higher than the levels attainable after 700 μg/kg [25] and 17 times higher vs. the largest Cmax found in the literature survey (247.8 ng/ml) [12]. Moreover the authors` claim for achieving viral inhibition with a single dose is inappropriate because practically the infected cells have been continuously exposed at concentrations that are virtually unattainable even with excessive dosing of the drug. In other words, the experimental design is based on clinically irrelevant drug levels with inhibitory concentrations whose targeting in a clinical trial seems doubtful at best."

"Ivermectin has been previously shown to exert antiviral activity in vitro against Dengue fever virus (DENV) [28], influenza virus [38], West Nile Virus [26], Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus [27] and heralded as a possible antiviral drug, but so far there has not been any clinical translation of these data. Noteworthy, a clinical trial for the treatment of Dengue fever in Thailand failed to show clinical benefits [11]. In light of the aforementioned pharmacokinetic considerations, this is not surprising given that the published inhibitory concentrations against DENV1-4 ranged within 1.66–2.32 µmol/L [28].



https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13102818.2020.1775118



While further research showed no changes to any biological marker associated with COVID after ivermectin administration:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184




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