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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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Epidemiologists that I heard were not saying that herd immunity would end the pandemic, they were saying it would slow the spread of the virus. The writer at the NY Times should have had an epidemiologist proofread his article. Fuck with the pandemic the NY Times should have an epidemiologist on the payroll available for this.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: falcon]
#27107497 - 12/25/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you saying Fauci wasn't qualified?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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I'm saying no epidemiologist said that herd immunity was going to stop the spread of the virus, just slow it to the point that it wasn't a problem. I'm not sure exactly what Fauci said, because I don't have any quotes from him, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't say that a vaccine would put an end to the virus as Ham Head implied with his post that you responded to.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: falcon]
#27107544 - 12/25/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I quoted Hamhead who said "the vaccine isn't enough, we need enough people to be vaccinated to have herd immunity".
I also quoted Dr Fauci who said "“When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Dr. Fauci said. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.”
Neither of them said a vaccine would put and end to the virus.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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"We were sold on this pandemic ending when a vaccine comes out"
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,283
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: falcon]
#27107590 - 12/25/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why do we have to use The vaccine for it to work?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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It depends on how you define it "work"ing.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,283
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Enlil]
#27107598 - 12/25/20 04:08 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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How do I define "use"?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Only you can answer that.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Crazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,283
Loc: Hampsterdam
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Enlil]
#27107612 - 12/25/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you know Mickey Haller? He is a defense attorney in Los Angeles.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,494
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Yeah, we go way back.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: falcon]
#27107624 - 12/25/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
falcon said: "We were sold on this pandemic ending when a vaccine comes out"
I doubt anyone thought coronavirus would completely disappear with a vaccine.
What's the significance of herd immunity? That's what Fauci and Hamhead were talking about.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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Ham Head's post implies that we were led to believe that a vaccine would be the end of the pandemic.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: falcon]
#27107650 - 12/25/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said: Why do we have to use The vaccine for it to work?
Because vaccines don't do shit. Vaccinations do. Quote:
falcon said: That is what Ham Head's post implies.
Operation warp speed was to see how fast vaccines can be made. There was no rush to get back to normal when a 'new normal' is being ushered in. Amitire?
Many companies racing to get a vaccine approved and for what, if not in order to end this pandemic? Can't be money, Fauci cares about people more than money, right?
People forget a timeline. 15 days to slow the spread, then we had to flatten the curve to keep peope out of hospitals, then it was wait for a vaccine in order to get back to 'normal'. Now we have a vaccine and society seems well content with mask and keeping businesses closed while the rich work from home and more people go into poverty.
I haven't run into many snake oil sales people, but it sure as fuck sounds like one to me.
Especial when hearing it won't prevent transmission.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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koods
Ribbit



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
falcon said: "We were sold on this pandemic ending when a vaccine comes out"
I doubt anyone thought coronavirus would completely disappear with a vaccine.
What's the significance of herd immunity? That's what Fauci and Hamhead were talking about.
Who said the pandemic would end when the vaccine came out. The pandemic ends when enough people get the vaccine that the virus cannot find enough people to infect and it dies out. That would clearly take months or more after vaccinations start.
This doesn’t mean the virus disappears. It means that one infection cannot lead to exponential growth
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: HamHead]
#27107658 - 12/25/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
Crazy_Horse said: Why do we have to use The vaccine for it to work?
Because vaccines don't do shit. Vaccinations do. Quote:
falcon said: That is what Ham Head's post implies.
Of course when they say vaccines will end the pandemic, they don’t mean the existence of a vaccine, they mean people getting the vaccine.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27107733 - 12/25/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
falcon said: "We were sold on this pandemic ending when a vaccine comes out"
I doubt anyone thought coronavirus would completely disappear with a vaccine.
What's the significance of herd immunity? That's what Fauci and Hamhead were talking about.
Who said the pandemic would end when the vaccine came out. The pandemic ends when enough people get the vaccine that the virus cannot find enough people to infect and it dies out. That would clearly take months or more after vaccinations start.
This doesn’t mean the virus disappears. It means that one infection cannot lead to exponential growth
Exactly.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Who said the pandemic would end when the vaccine came out. The pandemic ends when enough people get the vaccine that the virus cannot find enough people to infect and it dies out. That would clearly take months or more after vaccinations start.
This doesn’t mean the virus disappears. It means that one infection cannot lead to exponential growth
Exactly.
Natural herd immunity is being hampered by people isolating and masking themselves.
Why be concerned about how transmissible a virus is when it's being treated effectively with corticosteroids, vitamin C, zinc, etc, essentially driving mortality rates even lower.
How do people die from the flu?
BY ASHLEY WELCH
JANUARY 29, 2018 / 5:18 PM
"The United States is in the midst of a deadly flu season. The latest statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that 37 children have died so far this flu season, which began in October. The flu is currently widespread in 49 states, and doctors across the country continue to see more cases, more hospitalizations, and more deaths from influenza infections.
Over the past several weeks, deaths of Americans of all ages from the flu have made headlines. The family of 12-year-old Dylan Winnick, who died from the flu in Florida last week, said they were stunned by how quickly the virus took his life.
"No indications. No warnings. Just common cold. That's what's so scary about it," his stepfather Mike Medwin said.
"This happens because the flu virus injures the lungs and causes inflammation that then makes it easier for bacteria to invade the lungs and cause a very serious infection," Bocchini told CBS News. "The bacterial infection can make it hard for children to breathe, and their lungs struggle to get enough oxygen for their body."
Sepsis is another complication that can lead to death. It occurs when the body overreacts to an infection. Sepsis can affect multiple organ systems, sometimes causing organ failure and resulting in death.
Other rare complications from the flu that can be fatal include infection of the heart (or myocarditis) which can cause sudden death or heart failure, and infection of the brain (or encephalitis) which can lead to seizures and dangerous swelling of the brain.
If you develop flu-like symptoms, such as fever, body aches and fatigue, and you are at high risk for complications from the flu, it is important to see your doctor to ask if you should receive an antiviral medication such as Tamiflu (also available as generic oseltamivir), Relenza or Rapivab.
"There are antiviral medications that can be used to shorten the duration of illness as well as to help prevent complications from the flu," Bocchini said. "[u[Antiviral medications should be started early to have their best chance of helping."
I wonder if Relenza or Rapivab was tried as treatment for Covid?
More rabbit holes I suppose. Here I go.
Relenza Under Question
BY CBSNEWS.COM STAFF CBSNEWS.COM STAFF
JANUARY 31, 2002 / 8:41 AM / CBS
In the next few months, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) plans to carefully monitor adverse events related to Relenza. Although the drug has only been in the market for less than 2 years, government officials have already recorded 23 deaths that may be related to its use. No conclusive link between the fatalities and the drug have been shown, but officials say they will still carefully watch the medicine over the next few months.
Consumer advocate Sidney Wolfe, MD, still insists Relenza should never have been put on the market in the first place because, he says, it's never been proven to work. "This drug was found to be so ineffective that the advisory committee that looked at the data voted 13-4 not to [approve] the drug... and yet they were overruled because of pressure from the company and other people higher up in the FDA."
FDA officials say they approved Relenza, because even a small benefit could be very important."
Huh. . .
Not looking very promising here.
Tamiflu and Relenza review questions effectiveness against flu
Written by Honor Whiteman on April 10, 2014 Tamiflu and Relenza are drugs commonly used for the prevention and treatment of influenza in adults and children. Past research has hailed the drugs for reducing hospital admissions and complications as a result of the virus. But in the latest Cochrane Review, recently published in the BMJ, researchers say there is no solid evidence to support such claims.
In 2009, Cochrane researchers looked to verify the safety and effectiveness of neuraminidase inhibitors. However, drug manufacturers refused to provide full access to clinical trial data of the drugs, which hindered their efforts.
This raised questions as to whether the risks and benefits of influenza antivirals have been accurately reported, and whether they should be stockpiled for the treatment of seasonal and pandemic flu in children and adults.
In 2012, Medical News Today reported on a story detailing how the BMJ were putting pressure on Roche – the manufacturers of Tamiflu – to release trial data for the drug.
Having now gained access to original clinical trial data, the researchers were able to analyze 20 full internal reports on the effects of Tamiflu and 26 reports on the effects of Relenza. In total, the reports included more than 24,000 people.
Furthermore, the team found that Tamiflu stopped some people from producing enough of their own antibodies to fight flu infection.
Commenting on these findings, Dr. David Tovey, editor in chief at Cochrane, says:
“Initially thought to reduce hospitalizations and serious complications from influenza, the review highlights that Tamiflu is not proven to do this, and it also seems to lead to harmful effects that were not fully reported in the original publications. This shows the importance of ensuring that trial data are transparent and accessible.”
Results were similar for Relenza. The drug was found to reduce the duration of flu symptoms from 6.6 days to 6 days in adults – the equivalent of 14.4 hours – compared with a placebo drug. No significant effect was found in children.
The team found no evidence that Relenza reduces the risk of flu complications or risk of hospitalization."
Well, we can scrap those for potential treatment.
Edited by HamHead (12/25/20 07:23 PM)
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Enlil]
#27107800 - 12/25/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It depends on how you define it "work"ing.
Right the vaccine is not expected to be perfect, just highly effective.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Enlil said: It depends on how you define it "work"ing.
Right the vaccine is not expected to be perfect, just highly effective.
Like a naturally developed immune system should be?
Though with a vaccine schedule, tough to find children who haven't been jabbed since birth.
Have got to go to Japan.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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