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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,151
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: ShroomerInTheRye] * 1
    #26550367 - 03/22/20 07:59 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomerInTheRye said:
That's why I'm so scared.  My Dad is 70 and he has heart problems...just like 75% of the parishioners in his church...and it's a large community...maybe around 2,000+ people.




2 weeks ago my parents went to church and almost everyone turned out. I was ...concerned. Like the only place worse I could imagine that thing getting into is a nursing home.


Thankfully last week they moved over to live streaming and a few church members are doing rounds making sure everyone has what they need. To both watch the stream and live comfortably.

I'm so glad those people have someone to look out for them and makes the decision to keep them safe.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineNotBTeleVised17
The Stranger


Registered: 07/06/17
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: ShroomerInTheRye]
    #26550372 - 03/22/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)



Edited by NotBTeleVised17 (03/22/20 08:15 AM)


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OfflineRebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home
I'm a teapot


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 8,921
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26550373 - 03/22/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Italy stopped treating 60 years old + people... :eek:


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: RebeccaBlack]
    #26550387 - 03/22/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Source? That's apparently been a rumor for a while.


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InvisibleShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander
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Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,037
Loc: Themyscira Flag
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26550402 - 03/22/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

According to Snopes, it's kinda true:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/italy-elderly-coronavirus/

They're in wartime mode, so they are only treating the people who they think have the best chance of making it.  Unfortunately, not a lot of old people can survive this.


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OfflineRebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home
I'm a teapot


Registered: 07/15/11
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: ShroomerInTheRye] * 1
    #26550406 - 03/22/20 08:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)



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Invisibledeucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,598
Loc: UK
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26550413 - 03/22/20 08:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Source? That's apparently been a rumor for a while.




"Source?" Reason. If you have a limited resourse (ventilators) and are forced to choose between the elderly, mentally, physically or genetically fucked, or the otherwise healthy, who, on recovery, and with their new super power, immunity, who do you prioritise?

It's all well and good quoting Ghandi but in the real world, what percentage of the population can any civilisation 'carry' before it destroys itself trying to look after it's most vulnerable.



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whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


Edited by deucedbi9 (03/22/20 08:30 AM)


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: RebeccaBlack]
    #26550421 - 03/22/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I wonder if they're stretching the ventilators ala morrowasted's method to use one ventilator on four patients.


Anyway. From what I gather it's not that they're "not being treated" as in being turned away at the door. They don't have enough machines.


Quote:

"Right now, if we get 10,000 people in Italy in need of ventilators - when we only have 3,000 in the country - 7,000 people will die.

"Rome right now is like where Milan was 10 days ago.




It sounds like they aren't or can't stretch the ventilators. They would still have to turn some away if that's a valid estimate but not 2/3rds.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: deucedbi9]
    #26550425 - 03/22/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deucedbi9 said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Source? That's apparently been a rumor for a while.




"Source?" Reason. If you have a limited resourse (ventilators) and are forced to choose between the elderly, mentally, physically or genetically fucked, or the otherwise healthy, who, on recovery, and with their new super power, immunity, who do you prioritise?

It's all well and good quoting Ghandi but in the real world, what percentage of the population can any civilisation 'carry' before it destroys itself trying to look after it's most vulnerable.






Various... unreputed websites have been saying that the elderly have been left to die (suggesting a blanket declaration of you're old so no healthcare for you kinda thing) for more than a week now. I think it's pretty reasonable to ask where the report has come from.


I imagine it would happen to some extent.. but misinformation and sensationalism are things. Things I happen to not like.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Invisibledeucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,598
Loc: UK
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26550429 - 03/22/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:

deucedbi9 said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Source? That's apparently been a rumor for a while.




"Source?" Reason. If you have a limited resourse (ventilators) and are forced to choose between the elderly, mentally, physically or genetically fucked, or the otherwise healthy, who, on recovery, and with their new super power, immunity, who do you prioritise?

It's all well and good quoting Ghandi but in the real world, what percentage of the population can any civilisation 'carry' before it destroys itself trying to look after it's most vulnerable.






Various... unreputed websites have been saying that the elderly have been left to die for more than a week now. I think it's pretty reasonable to ask where the report has come from.





And I'm suggesting that the question is moot.
I ask again, not because I wish harm on the "elderly, mentally, physically or genetically fucked" and again, what is the answer to, "what percentage of the population can any civilisation 'carry' before it destroys itself trying to look after it's most vulnerable"?


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
Fucked off to the pub
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Posts: 14,151
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: deucedbi9]
    #26550430 - 03/22/20 08:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well then we might as well pretend the predicted total death toll already is the actual death toll, right?


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: RebeccaBlack] * 1
    #26550435 - 03/22/20 08:39 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Daijo said:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1257852/Italy-coronavirus-intubating-elderly-pandemic-china-hospitals-Nadine-Dorries




This says that one specific hospital in Italy has stopped intubating patients over 60, not that Italy as a whole has stopped treating patients over 60.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: psi]
    #26550441 - 03/22/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

:nonono:

No psi let's pretend it was all of Italy because that's an inevitability.


Media sucks.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,689
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 2
    #26550442 - 03/22/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

This is not news. For about 10 days now we know that in some hospitals in northern Italy (an increasing number) choices are being made as to who gets the ICU and who gets just the oxygen mask. In The Netherlands, this choice is also being made currently, but it's shared decision-making between the patient (and his/her family) and the doctor. With elderly patients or patients with serious comorbidity, the risks of ICU treatment are explained and it is left to the patient to decide if they want to give it a shot. 75% of the deaths so far did not go to an ICU due to this mechanism - i.e., they (or their loved ones) decided it just wasn't worth it. Note that this (so far) is not because of insufficient ICU capacity. Next week will be different; by then, it will also be part of the equation.

I imagine this is a bit more difficult to discuss in Italy, so there the decision rests solely on the shoulders of the doctor.

Over yonder in the US you guys better start thinking about this as well. You're not going to be able to save everyone. You can panic or stress about it (if there ever was a good reason to, this would be it...), but that's not going to change things. Give it your best shot keeping everyone alive as long as possible until you reach capacity, and then start making choices.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: koraks] * 3
    #26550444 - 03/22/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: koraks]
    #26550446 - 03/22/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly we need to slow this down so hospital not overwhelmed


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InvisiblePrimal Glitch
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Registered: 05/06/07
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Gypsy Boy] * 1
    #26550449 - 03/22/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

sorry dude, it's too late for that.
you should have started some serious containment like a month ago :sad:


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,689
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26550455 - 03/22/20 08:47 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:
Exactly we need to slow this down so hospital not overwhelmed any longer than strictly necessary



There, fixed it for ya.


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Invisiblesh4d0ws
LSx
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: NotBTeleVised17] * 1
    #26550462 - 03/22/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

NotBTeleVised17 said:






jesus fucking christ, 40 bids? is that real?

society is fucked


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Coronavirus 2020 aka Wuhan Coronavirus aka COVID-19 [Re: Asante]
    #26550465 - 03/22/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)





Meanwhile in Holland :sad:



Tuesday 382 (March 10)
Wednesday: 503 (+121)
Thursday: 614 (+111)
Friday: 804 (+190)
Saturday: 959 (+155)
Sunday: 1135 (+176)
Monday: 1413 (+287)
Tuesday: 1708 (+295)
Wednesday: 2051 (+343)
Thursday 2460 (+409)
Friday 2994 (+534)
Saturday 3631 (+637)
Sunday 4202 (+571)

.



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Omnicyclion.org
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