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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
#26935349 - 09/14/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh yes definitely a matter of opinion. I would say that when the individual is not the highest value then it's not a problem that you are causing the individual to conform to someone else's will. They are not the highest value anymore. What do you mean by stinginess? I can't grasp that part.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26935447 - 09/14/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I would say that when the individual is not the highest value then it's not a problem
lol, well just because it's not a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem.
Stinginess - Wanting to pay the least amount. I suspect rich liberals who think taxes should be higher profit just as much from tax accountants and loopholes as anyone else, and that's just the legal stuff.
So where does it end? Shouldn't the rich person be able to have that vacation home? Or would the collective be better off if that effort was put to use elsewhere?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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laughingdog
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
#26935688 - 09/14/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Re the recent direction of the thread:
Basically it would seem everyone's situation is to a larger degree than they like to admit a result of many random factors, regardless of their beliefs about "free will" and "rights".
No one chose their parents, nation of birth, or historical period in which to live. Also no one chose their height, gender, or IQ; or handicaps (among many other genetic factors) or lack thereof. And of course lets not forget that no one knows either the time or method of their death, only that the longer one lives the closer it is. And also the ignored and desperately avoided fact that to have children is to condemn another human being to old age, suffering, and death, and that one (or more) (the parent or child or children) will most likely grieve the other(s).
Therefore, (as well as the fact that all governments are corrupt & are inefficient and often ineffective), discussions about what might be an ideal form of government, or what constitutes 'justice', strike me as of no real importance, but rather as a form of entertainment, or a game.
Edited by laughingdog (09/14/20 06:26 PM)
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
#26935755 - 09/14/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: So where does it end? Shouldn't the rich person be able to have that vacation home? Or would the collective be better off if that effort was put to use elsewhere?
In perspective the collective prefers themselves and the rich person prefers the luxury of a vacation home. I have no certainty as to which is preferable let alone correct. Which is why I asked you in the first place.
By you saying that the individual has the highest value you've already answered your question. Of course the rich should do what they want. Are you attempting to come to some universal consensus where everyone has the same slant?
Edited by Yellow Pants (09/14/20 06:54 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26935809 - 09/14/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
Quote:
Rahz said: So where does it end? Shouldn't the rich person be able to have that vacation home? Or would the collective be better off if that effort was put to use elsewhere?
In perspective the collective prefers themselves and the rich person prefers the luxury of a vacation home. I have no certainty as to which is preferable let alone correct. Which is why I asked you in the first place.
By you saying that the individual has the highest value you've already answered your question. Of course the rich should do what they want. Are you attempting to come to some universal consensus where everyone has the same slant?
There is always a tug of war going on and tipping points. The progressives win in the long run which creates the direction of the cycle. And of course, progressing along a circle doesn't actually lead anywhere.
I don't think any of them are correct because there is no correct. It's all crooked.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26935895 - 09/14/20 08:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: Therefore, (as well as the fact that all governments are corrupt & are inefficient and often ineffective), discussions about what might be an ideal form of government, or what constitutes 'justice', strike me as of no real importance, but rather as a form of entertainment, or a game.
Yea, that's about right. Some people become politicians. Some people like cheering for their team. For some the discussion might lead to disillusionment and liberation from such things. I mean, you gotta pay your taxes right? You don't have to try and save the world.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
#26936972 - 09/15/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes we have the 'right' to pay our taxes.  and the 'right' to keep whats 'left'.  ...for a short while
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26937281 - 09/15/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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some odd facts
real abuse of rights & lockdown/ isolation in Kenya
but less death
possibly due to age, & stronger immune systems or possibly also partly due to better diet (less processed food, & less meat & dairy, consumption )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=124&v=MDT8q2qxgj0&feature=emb_logo
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26937345 - 09/15/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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maybe they didn't go to any political rallies
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
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Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26937632 - 09/15/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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there have been a handful of studies of patients that have died of covid, linking a correlation to their serum vitamin d levels. it is just correlation, but the countries that have been most adversely affected by covid have populations that have low levels of vitamin d and/or are vitamin d deficient. 42% of the US population is vitamin d deficient, and those with unhealthy nutrition habits are likely to have a greater level of deficiency.
black americans living in the US are 28x more deficient in vitamin d than caucasians, and 2x more likely to die of covid than white americans, again, just an interesting correlation as there are many other factors to consider, but certainly Kenyans get more exposure to sunlight. immune function is largely regulated by Vitamin d, as there are many vitamin d receptors on immune cells that turn on genes that regulate immune function. those who take a vitamin d supplement and/or have healthy levels of vitamin d are significantly less likely to get respiratory infections and significantly less likely to have immune system dysfunction in general.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Yes Mr. John Campbell has been talking about Vitamin D for months & I take it (assuming of course that the pills contain what they say they do...who knows? I'm not about to pay for blood tests - & visit clinics).
Some may find more useful nutrition info here, others will no doubt find reasons to take offense. Whatever.
https://nutritionfacts.org/covid-19/
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26937810 - 09/15/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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it's just correlation
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
#26937887 - 09/15/20 07:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: it's just correlation
but strong correlation Vitamin D, Large scale studies
Edited by laughingdog (09/15/20 09:33 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26938438 - 09/16/20 06:01 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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poor people don't buy vitamin d. (no known mechanism affecting the virus directly) several poor people share one apartment and cannot isolate. (crowding spreads virus directly)
just correlating other details that are part of poverty: menial labor kinky hair skin color chicken sandwiches hip hop cannabis
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
#26938964 - 09/16/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes until a proper study is done we won't know for sure
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26939102 - 09/16/20 01:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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there are proper studies! the most interesting studies regarding vitamin d are the ones where people have a genetic polymorphism where they genetically have lower serum vitamin d levels. in these Mendelian randomization studies, studies that are not susceptible to confounding factors and reverse causation, as the individuals in these kinds of studies are genetically low in vitamin d.
these individuals would be characterized based on the gene that they posses, not their actual vitamin d levels, and these individuals are more likely to die of respiratory infections.
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laughingdog
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Edited by laughingdog (09/16/20 01:55 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
#26939234 - 09/16/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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you are doing a good job of supporting each other's superficial findings which are not connecting the claim to covid at all.
honestly when I see an answer that is just a web search string I have to assume the poster does not comprehend the issue.
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
#26939317 - 09/16/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: you are doing a good job of supporting each other's superficial findings which are not connecting the claim to covid at all.
honestly when I see an answer that is just a web search string I have to assume the poster does not comprehend the issue.
Apparently no one wants to bother posting details here. And its up to you to do what you want for your own health. It seems a recommended supplement, for those who care about such things. Medicine and government ( & gov. funding of studies) are both known to behind the curve when it comes to health & especially nutrition matters, so its up to individual whether they want to act before such institutions catch up. Took them a long time to warn against smoking. So yes the type of evidence you want may be lacking, but so are most people in having good levels as the body does not make it (without good sunlight exposure). And sun levels, in the north, in winter, and in cities are not always sufficient.
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from
https://nutritionfacts.org/2019/04/23/the-amount-of-vitamin-d-supplementation-i-recommend/
The Amount of Vitamin D Supplementation I Recommend
Written By Michael Greger M.D. FACLM on April 23rd, 2019 Optimal Vitamin D Dose
Randomized, controlled clinical trials have found that vitamin D supplements extend one’s lifespan. What is the optimal dose? What blood level is associated with living longest? In my nine-part video series on vitamin D from 2011, I noted that the relationship between vitamin D levels and mortality appeared to be a U-shaped curve, meaning low levels of vitamin D were associated with increased mortality, but so were levels that were too high, with the apparent sweet spot around 75 or 80 nmol/L based on individual studies. (See Vitamin D and Mortality May Be a U-Shaped Curve for more on this.)
Why might higher vitamin D levels be associated with higher risk? Well, the study I profile in my video How Much Vitamin D Should You Take? was a population study, so we can’t be sure which came first. Maybe the higher vitamin D higher risk, or perhaps higher risk led to higher vitamin D levels, meaning maybe those who weren’t doing as well were prescribed vitamin D. Maybe it’s because it was a Scandinavian study, where individuals tend to take a lot of cod liver oil as a vitamin D supplement, one spoonful of which could exceed the tolerable upper daily limit of intake for vitamin A, which could have negative consequences. Testing Vitamin D Levels
Anyway, the U-shaped curve is old data. An updated meta-analysis has shown that as population vitamin D levels go up, mortality appears to go down and stay down, which is good because then we don’t have to test to see if we’re hitting just the right level. Routine testing of vitamin D levels is not recommended. Why? Well, it costs money, and, in most people, levels come right up to where you want them with sufficient sun or supplementation, so what’s the point? As well, the test is not very good: Results can be all over the place. What happens when you send a single sample to a thousand different laboratories around the world? You’d perhaps expect a little variation, but results from the same sample ranged anywhere from less than 20 to over 100 nmol/L. Depending on what laboratory your doctor sent your blood sample to, the results could vary dramatically, so one could argue the test isn’t necessarily very helpful.
So, what’s a safe dose that will likely get us to the purported optimal level? A thousand units a day should get most people up to the target 75 nmol/L (which is 30 ng/mL), but by most people, researchers mean 50 percent of people. To get around 85 percent of the U.S. population up to 75 nmol/L would require 2,000 IU a day. Two thousand IU a day would shift the curve so that the average person would fall into the desired range without fear of toxicity. We can take too much vitamin D, however, but problems don’t tend to be seen until blood levels get up around 250 nmol/L, which would take consistent daily doses in excess of 10,000 IU.
Note that if you’re overweight, you may want to take 3,000 IU and even more than that if you’re obese. If you’re over age 70 and not getting enough sun, it may take 3,500 IU to get that same 85 percent chance of bumping up your levels above the target. Again, there’s no need for the average person to test and retest, since a few thousand IU per day should bring up almost everyone without risking toxicity.
Given this, why then did the Institute of Medicine set the Recommended Daily Allowance at 600 to 800 IU? In fact, official recommendations are all over the map, ranging from just 200 IU a day all the way up to 10,000 IU a day. I’ll try to cut through the confusion in my next post.
After all that work plowing through the new science, the same 2,000 IU per day recommendation I made in 2011 remains (for those not getting enough sun): http://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/.
The other videos in this series include:
Do Vitamin D Supplements Help with Diabetes, Weight Loss, and Blood Pressure? Will You Live Longer If You Take Vitamin D Supplements? The Optimal Dose of Vitamin D Based on Natural Levels The Best Way to Get Vitamin D: Sun, Supplements, or Salons? The Risks and Benefits of Sensible Sun Exposure
I also explore Vitamin D as it relates to specific diseases:
Do Vitamin D Supplements Reduce the Risk of Dying from Cancer? Vitamin D for Asthma Vitamin D for Inflammatory Bowel Disease Should Vitamin D Supplements Be Taken to Prevent Falls in the Elderly?
Edited by laughingdog (09/16/20 04:13 PM)
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
#26939355 - 09/16/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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i don't even think that covid is what people think it is! i'm still out there licking shopping carts trying to get infected!!! - no success yet.
i just found the stats that ld posted on covid in Kenya interesting in light of the link between vitmin d and immune system function, and Kenya being so close to the equator.
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