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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26553111 - 03/23/20 01:20 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

A Tshirt will likely cut down on your initial viral load if you are breathing in some.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: falcon] * 1
    #26553434 - 03/23/20 04:25 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

Yes, by 70%. Just because you breathe it in doesn't mean you get it. Reducing exposure by 70% is better than nothing. :shrug:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“Everyone's path is different, and that is fine. We either sit or walk.”


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26553705 - 03/23/20 06:37 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

We just had the news today in the UK that we are going into state mandated lockdown. I feel like it was the right thing to do, our prime minister flipped flopped on it a bit but I think he made the right decision in the end. I am not a conservative alrhough he is and I think people made the right choice here in the elections because he is capable of making the right decision when it comes to the crunch. The other guy would have flip flopped for longer on the necessary measures and not been capable of having the strength to cope the crisis it I think.

Seems to me the US government needs to step up quickly on this one or your country is going to experience tremendous suffering especially with your current and frankly awful healthcare system

Otherwise I am not really sure how to feel about the whole thing, I am taking it as a test and challenge to my integrity.

I am thinking very seriously about leaving social media too as I'm not sure if I buy this whole idea of humanity coming together. I mistrust these big social media companies and want to make a break from it. I want to try and make a break from the fear of it and follow my own path on this. Like I said I am seeing this as a test of integrity.

.Just going to try to keep away the fear and listen to the voices I feel resonate with me as I have perhaps for the first time found some of those I do lately and a teacher I can believe in; Perhaps skype sessions are in order. As face to face contact is no longer possible.

Very interested to see what the feelings of the P and S group are on this on will be staying posted to all of that and trying my best to listen and consider,. Interested to see how this thread expands, hoping it will expand, and to hear what people have to say about their own take on it all. I hope people will feel free to call me and others out on anything.

Rant over. Hope you're all doing okay now and in the near future.

:heart:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Curses, invocations
Weird bate-headed mongrels
I keep expecting one of you to rise"


Edited by Grapefruit (03/23/20 06:42 PM)


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26553739 - 03/23/20 06:53 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

I think also that you can always take a shower after going to the toilet and there is no need to horde toilet paper. As for face masks I think self sourcing is pointless and silly, the only thing to do is hope that the government has the common sense and resources to source enough for everybody because at the moment it is the hospital workers and care workers who are desperately in need of them.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Curses, invocations
Weird bate-headed mongrels
I keep expecting one of you to rise"


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Grapefruit] * 2
    #26553946 - 03/23/20 08:34 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

I just told an individual they cannot return to work after traveling to a populated area for Spring Break. Now they can file unemployment and drain the system for their selfish choices. This to me is the issue for America and likely many European countries too. Including the UK. And that is some of the key differences between individualist and collectivist societies. The 'I' that wants to do what's best for it and screw the rest. And this mentality is systematically rewarded to a large degree.

https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Collectivist_and_individualist_cultures

I'll be surprised if any of the approaches we take in the West work as well as they did in the East just because of our culture and ideals. In the West there will always be way more rebels, rule breakers, and people who want to pursue their own personal view of what's best rather than take the view of what is best for the society.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #26554730 - 03/24/20 08:56 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

certainly they will drain the system less than the tax free 1% have managed over the last 3 years. feel good about trump's virus for the changes it may make to provide a more equitable economy and health care while the republicans are dragged kicking and screaming from their lofty lies.


--------------------


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26554860 - 03/24/20 10:27 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

trumps response is ludicrious

the politicians role is mostly do as much as you can to the pandemic

do as much as you can to prevent it

giving directions like that to all fields


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26556370 - 03/25/20 05:21 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
certainly they will drain the system less than the tax free 1% have managed over the last 3 years. feel good about trump's virus for the changes it may make to provide a more equitable economy and health care while the republicans are dragged kicking and screaming from their lofty lies.




Well I don't dig too deep into the political arena but here's what I see from the ground floor:

The higher up in the company you are, the less likely you are to be working
Our company is up 30% in sales year-over-year since March 1st, so those at the top are benefiting most
The workers at the bottom are the ones who are at most risk, the least paid, and receiving extra workload

Those individuals who make selfish decisions at the bottom are compounding this. They add to the risk if they do not communicate. If they do communicate, they add to the workload for everyone else because that's better than adding to the risk. And then they can be rewarded for these decisions by not working and remaining paid. I'm not sure in what world any of this is a more equitable economy. The surging cost of unemployment that has been put on the State will not be covered by the 1%. It's likely going to come out of state taxpayer money in the coming years as the budget gets re-balanced. Maybe some states will be able to levy a heavier tax on a corporation they house but that's not the case here at all. We aren't Silicon Valley by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is most of the country.

If we add in the trillions of dollars the Federal Government is pulling out of thin air, IMO it gets even uglier. Any hopes for progressive reform have officially gone out the window if you ask me. There will be no way to secure funding for any of it in the aftermath of this.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #26556386 - 03/25/20 05:55 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

but what if we never return to how it was.
what if we end up with global health care, and global basic income provisions starting at age zero, education for everyone, i.e. a decent life support for people everywhere, maybe a new charter altogether comes from this.

something better than Bernie.


--------------------


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26556388 - 03/25/20 05:58 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

Hey if you've got a good plan I'm eligible to vote :lol:

I think the likely outcome is increased efforts from companies like Amazon, WalMart, and Uber around the "need" for automated labor. If we had automated labor we wouldn't be needing to protect workers after all :crazy2:


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineForrester
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26556592 - 03/25/20 08:40 AM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
but what if we never return to how it was.





We almost certainly won't...
We can speculate all we want, positively or negatively, but that's all it is.  All we can say for sure is that things aren't going back to "business as usual".  I for one am glad for THAT.

A positive speculation - I'm starting to think this virus may be the thing that saves our planet from the climate change crisis.  More and more people are starting to see how insane the way our global economy works.  Getting eggs from 100's of miles away when there's an egg farm down the street, everything else from China, etc...


--------------------
Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #26556805 - 03/25/20 10:32 AM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Where do you guys think the $2,000,000,000,000 is coming from?

If I write you a check for that much money and I don't have it, how am I going to pay for it?

1. inflation of the $ so that 2 trillion isn't as big of a pinch going forward but your individual $ isn't worth as much either

2. increased taxation

3. pray???

4. ???

I think many folks are completely delusional about the situation we are in economically. Money to support an entire country does not appear from thin air. This money is going to be repaid over time or the value of the money that does exist is going to decrease significantly. Either way what people are working with financially will not be the same when this ends. This is something very visible right now.

What's more is that countries that have restarted their economies (e.g., China) are going to be in a much better economic situation than a country facing a much longer production shutdown. You can literally see Trump panic and try to force us to get on China's timeline to keep up economically.

Increased cost of goods entering the US because we are not producing
Decreased exports meaning we have less GDP

supply and demand -- the price of those goods will skyrocket while we are making less money, increasing the debt even more


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #26556851 - 03/25/20 10:49 AM (4 months, 18 days ago)

absolutely


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Kickle]
    #26557865 - 03/25/20 08:56 PM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
...
I think many folks are completely delusional about the situation we are in economically. ---- Either way what people are working with financially will not be the same when this ends. This is something very visible right now.




 

.    The future economic situation does not have the drama that immediate fear of death does. So I agree that Most Americans have no idea of what lies ahead. It is visible to you right now, But I doubt most realize we are never going back to the way it used to be.
.    As all of our human technology is interdependent and trade is interdependent, not only will many people likely starve in the near term, in certain areas; but also some systems will likely become unrepairable.
.    Compared to the rest of the world even what might be called "the middle class American life style" has long been obscene. As regards those even better off, I don't know what to say. But all will be affected, in some way.

And the experts such as Michael Osterholm
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Michael+Osterholm
predict more future pandemics.

I highly recommend the Mr. Osterholm videos


"Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. Look for his book "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Deadly Germs" ."

Dr. John Campbell is also rational & informed

https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching/videos


--------------------
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” or  “Science advances one funeral at a time.”
― Max Planck

"The situation is hopeless, but not serious."

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend,
inside of a dog its too dark to read."


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
    #26558686 - 03/26/20 09:21 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

I'm concerned about the supply chain breaking down to the point it becomes it's own issue. Toilet paper could be the least of our concerns. That's why I started this thread.

I spoke with a PA yesterday. He says the mortality rate is over inflated due to official numbers including all deaths but only confirmed infections. The more testing done, the lower the mortality rate drops. In South Korea for instance, testing 1,100 people per million residents has resulted in an apparent mortality rate of .6% and the actual number should be lower than that. Still enough to strain the health care system but not as bad as the media is suggesting.

Hoping if the real figures are much lower than what's generally reported that will come to light and things will be back to normal sooner than later.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“Everyone's path is different, and that is fine. We either sit or walk.”


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26558723 - 03/26/20 09:35 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

apparently diabetes is an issue,
partly due to conflict with steroids that they use for the fluid in lungs etc.
My brother who tested negative three times, had a bronchioscopy (after 1 week in hospital - to relieve congestion and take samples) and cultures were positive for corona (sars-cv2, covid)
after a week in the hospital he will finally get off the ventilator in 2 days if progress continues, and out of the hospital in 2 more weeks.
so
3.5 weeks in hospital if things go well.
not much fun.
stay isolated if you can.
maybe avoid diabetes too.


--------------------


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26559079 - 03/26/20 12:07 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I'm concerned about the supply chain breaking down to the point it becomes it's own issue.




I have a deer fence around my garden but it wont stop hungry zombies. Luckily Chickweed grows abundantly here and they probably don't know about that.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #26559335 - 03/26/20 03:07 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

I don't know why people in the west should be so concerened about their own economies. So we can buy more iphones and TVs from China and other junk? We have more than enough as it is. It's the distribution that's the real problem. This isn't the great depression where people will start starving in the streets, unless of course we really can't come together at all as a society and do something about this extreme right wing economic nonsense going around that we need not be charitable to others and everybody should be able to get by on their own steam.

I met a guy on the streets who I vaguely knew yesterday, very nice guy as far as I can tell but in a rough state due to being abandoned by society. He hadn't been able to get any money from anybody all day, and clearly just needed a bed to sleep in and some food to eat. I thought fucking hell that's ridiculous here I thought this virus was supposed to be the thing that pulled us together. It might be normal over in the US to have people just street sleeping but it's certainly not in my country, hence my shock. Although sadly I have seen this rough sleeping become more and more prevalent over the last dozen years here, it used to be something you only really saw in the big cities but now it is happening a lot in smaller towns too.

But basically there are plenty of beds and houses in the west and plenty of essentials to go round and we have the ability to grow more and become more self reliant country wise and more sharing. People really don't need that much for a healthy diet in spite of that nonsense healthcare professionals are putting around today about how if you eat fifty million vitamins a day your life is suddenly going to become a wonderland of happiness and that you need to eat like that to live.

But basically my main point is that I don't think we need to panic so much about money, the essentials are what's important. Bodhidharma said that all trangressions were basically a case of people forsaking the essential for the trivial.

The little guy on the street could give less of a fuck about high flown ideas of charity or ethics. Dude just at least needs his bread, milk, and a place to sleep and why can't we provide that? He has no voice and most are not willing to speak up for him because (I guess) they assume he has done something wrong and hold it against him. It shouldn't be difficult but perhaps things are way too fractured for us to pull together. Everybody is out for themselves it seems.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Curses, invocations
Weird bate-headed mongrels
I keep expecting one of you to rise"


Edited by Grapefruit (03/26/20 03:19 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26559350 - 03/26/20 03:19 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Poverty has been a problem in most societies, throughout most of history. And I agree with you, it could be easily dealt with fairly inexpensively. But honestly, and I can't speak for other countries, in the U.S. I think the vast majority just don't really care. Indeed, most Americans only care about themselves, and our entire economy through advertising fosters this. Buy buy buy as much as you can for yourself, and let the other guy worry about him.

Like you say, this is an opportunity for people to show community values and come together. But all anyone is doing is hoarding groceries and breaking the social distancing rules because they figure it doesn't apply to them and the fact that they would rather do what they want. I have regarded Americans for a long time as selfish and without compassion, and this crisis just affirms that assessment. And the poor, and those without a job, are hit very hard by this. If most people didn't, for whatever reason, assume poverty is some sort of mark of Cain, we could be there for each other. But hardly anyone cares.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26559355 - 03/26/20 03:21 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Amen. It's absurd that people are so judgemental of those without money when the real and more dangerous sharks are (most often) basking at the top.

EDIT: I will just add that I get paid a very modest salary by most western standards and I have never really felt much the need for more. I already feel I have way more than I need and when money is tight it's almost always because I have spent it on something stupid that I didn't need at all for my own well being. It's other countries that really need a hand and a shift in power wouldn't be such a bad thing in my eyes.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Curses, invocations
Weird bate-headed mongrels
I keep expecting one of you to rise"


Edited by Grapefruit (03/26/20 03:30 PM)


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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