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OfflineBlabble40
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Terence McKenna * 1
    #26547858 - 03/21/20 12:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Terence McKenna aided psychonauts in becoming knowledgeable by making a lot of things known about what the mushroom or DMT experience is about. However, he also made it a challenge by not talking that much about philosophy.

This was to challenge me into doing work myself. I know science and philosophy. Philosophy is basically just talking about science.

He mentioned modern philosophy such as Alfred North Whitehead's book in one video.

The trouble comes with sharing. Having knowledge in your head is one thing, but people seem to want you to share it, so if you don't, they can accuse you of not knowing it, which is illogical. However, I think that's an admirable aspect of Terence's work. He made it so that you have to read the philosophy books instead of listening to him rant about it.

When most people think of philosophy, trying to fill in blanks or be helpful if they "notice" it isn't being talked about enough, they're thinking of the Isaac Newton/Gottfried Leibniz debate over whether space is absolute or relative. Einstein popularized relativity, which just means the frame of reference for each person is different, so that, a person doesn't necessarily have to look at something someone else is looking at.

People like when there's a connection, though, so it doesn't hurt to share experiences. Alienation is when citizens are scared to have unique perspectives, so they feel forced in "conforming," or doing something everyone else is. For instance, someone could be racist just because everyone else is.

Communism is what they have in Russia and China, and America is a capitalistic society. Capitalism is more risky and not everyone has equal opportunity; it's basically up to chance. Under communism, there's less incentive to do art, as the government gives everyone the same stuff, from housing to food. Under capitalism, there used to be a drive to be unique, but recently it seems like Americans are turning into commies, even though there's still tension between USA and China and Russia.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Blabble40]
    #26547937 - 03/21/20 01:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

McKenna rules.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26547945 - 03/21/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I like McKenna.  He’s the type of dude who you could put on when you’re having some terrible trip and things would be ok.  I like listening to his train of thoughts and then considering things further.  It’s the type of stuff not a lot of people would be able to relate too in one’s day to day life, at least not mine.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Amanita86]
    #26547949 - 03/21/20 01:22 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It took me about a year before I could listen to his voice. I first came across him when he supported the dance band, The Shamen. For ages I would “fast forward” past Re:Evolution!

But then I got him! I find him so intersting these days just to rock back and chill out to. He was so ahead of his time, I believe he has done the psychedelic renaissance a world of good 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26547953 - 03/21/20 01:28 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah man, I really wish he was still around to give his take on things...:sad:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Amanita86]
    #26547978 - 03/21/20 01:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think McKenna was onto something with the Novelty Theory; what if the Novelty drop off on 12/21/12 was the opening/closing of a 7 year window of "going off the rails" (Novelty trip ended), of which we're hitting now with all this world wide chaos happening?

Yes, I'm high AF lol.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineColours
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26547993 - 03/21/20 02:08 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Terence was a very interesting mind and a great wordsmith but I find it really interesting that after his "bad" trip in the late eighties with his wife Kat and brother Dennis, he very rarely ever did psychedelics again as people thought he did.

He continued to lecture and romanticize about them (5 dried grams etc etc), and people thought he was like a king of psychedelics, but he had already fallen out of the lifestyle that he seemed to portray.

Apparently, his brother Dennis even called him out on it, saying he needs to walk the walk if he's going to talk the talk and he would potentially expose him for not being the person he was lecturing to be, as Dennis says himself. But it never came down to that.

However, Terence was a wise soul with lots of knowledge on many things. A great listen or read for any psychedelic enthusiast.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Colours] * 1
    #26548006 - 03/21/20 02:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Is it really a big deal though that he wasn’t actively tripping at the time of giving those lectures?  Everything he was saying (as far as I know) was still based on his experiences.  I don’t think the day you take your last trip means you no longer get to talk about it.

I’ve heard about this bad trip but never found much info on it to get the details + I don’t know the context of his lectures well enough to know if he was fabricating some aspect of it.  From what I’ve heard though it makes no difference to me that he wasn’t actively tripping during the timeframe those lectures were made, I still learned a good deal from them.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Colours]
    #26548010 - 03/21/20 02:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Did he have this bad trip while he was lecturing, or before he started lecturing? I have heard he stopped tripping in his later years, but thought it was from some time in the 90s, not the 80s!

DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineColours
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26548029 - 03/21/20 02:43 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Is it really a big deal though that he wasn’t actively tripping at the time of giving those lectures?  Everything he was saying (as far as I know) was still based on his experiences.  I don’t think the day you take your last trip means you no longer get to talk about it.

I’ve heard about this bad trip but never found much info on it to get the details + I don’t know the context of his lectures well enough to know if he was fabricating some aspect of it.  From what I’ve heard though it makes no difference to me that he wasn’t actively tripping during the timeframe those lectures were made, I still learned a good deal from them.




Well, I've been listening to and reading McKenna for about 12 years, so no I dont find it that big of a deal, considering like I said I think he's a great person to gain insight from for many reasons. I just find it interesting that many people arent even aware that he quit tripping in the late eighties. Nothing wrong with that to me.

But as his brother Dennis put it, whose just as entertaining and informative/scientific about psychedelics, if he was going to tell people to take 5 dried grams, smoke DMT etc, which can be quite over whelming for many people, then he should at least be taking part in the experimentation and study of psychedelics from time to time. These are Dennis's words/thoughts, which I can see where he's coming from. Dennis admits psychedlics are tougher the older you get and the more familiar you are with them, but he still takes them to gain that insight you get, for recreational purposes and research of consciousness.



Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Did he have this bad trip while he was lecturing, or before he started lecturing? I have heard he stopped tripping in his later years, but thought it was from some time in the 90s, not the 80s!

DJ Ed



In the middle. He had been lecturing for a number of years before his "bad" trip. There's some information on this trip but youll have to search around a little bit. Both Dennis and his ex-wife Kat have talked about it and apparently threatened to "expose" Terence for his lack of practicing what he preached. If I remember correctly, Dennis even talked about it a little bit on the Joe Rogan podcast. But they both said, Terence thought the mushrooms "turned on him" one night and completely wrecked him. He kept repeating a certain phrase over and over like there was no meaning to life or something. I'd have to look it up again. It's been a while since I've read about it myself.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Colours]
    #26548042 - 03/21/20 03:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Ok Colours, thanks for that. I’ll dig around a bit 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26548871 - 03/21/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
It took me about a year before I could listen to his voice. I first came across him when he supported the dance band, The Shamen. For ages I would “fast forward” past Re:Evolution!





I love that track :lol: It's better than Ebeneezer Goode


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InvisibleAntigov
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #26549162 - 03/21/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I’m not saying I don’t like McKenna but sometimes I think he likes to her himself talk.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Antigov] * 1
    #26549227 - 03/21/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It makes absolutely no difference at all that Terence stopped tripping and still talked about it or recommended actual dosages to people. I myself took Aya daily/near daily for 4 years, and have since been on a break from it for 5 years, i still talk about it and recommend it daily. What he said about people taking "piss ant amounts" is true, people need to be taking more fully immersive dosages for the authentic/genuine and proper experience/way of using these tools, imo, and people need to be focusing on integration. People generally like to avoid the real work of Entheogens by taking lower dosages where it's not challenging or difficult or potentially terrifying or doesn't show you the hard truths about yourself and reality, they simply want to have a good time. Especially when it comes to Ayahuasca, they want the oral DMT without the main Huasca effects which includes it being a very strong medicine with possible nausea/vomiting/diarrhea and bodyload. They'd rather avoid at all costs the difficulties and challenges and discipline and hence miss out on a lot of the main teachings these tools have to offer, and thus miss out on the main purpose of these tools. Though, just like Cannabis, these tools can be used in many different ways for many different purposes, but just like Cannabis, these tools do have a more original purpose imo. I don't have a problem with people wanting to dose lightly and have a good time, but i think people are overly cautious and don't know how to properly approach these tools, hence the freak outs, rather than paying attention, practicing, and learning, especially how to surrender and let go and immerse oneself into the experience, letting it have full control instead of trying to maintain control and maintain the ego. Hence, why i do not recommend LSD to people, and hence why i recommend people take at least 2 to 2.5 grams of mushrooms, but mainly why i recommend people take Ayahuasca or a good dose of mushrooms with Rue/Caapi/Harmalas for Psilohuasca. Also why Psychedelics got a bad rep back in the 60's, because people were taking light dosages and "fucking around" rather than taking them seriously and using them intelligently and wisely.

So i see nothing wrong, personally, with Terence recommending these things to people even if he did stop taking them at some point, there's no rule anywhere that says you can't recommend them or talk about them if you don't use them, particularly if you already have a lot of experience with them. Now, people who talk about these things without first having their own in depth and long term experimentation/experience, those are the people i have a problem with, because they think they know what's up, when really they don't.


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Edited by Sabnock (03/21/20 08:10 PM)


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OfflineColours
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Sabnock]
    #26549330 - 03/21/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Dennis and Kat have discussed the trip in more detail but, here's Terence's own words...

Quote:

And that's what these psychedelics do, they make you get down and grovel in the dirt. God, I had this trip in Hawaii that was just horrible, you know, where it was saying:
'You think you're such hot stuff? You won't even get off your ass and go shit in the field.' You know 'I wanna see you grovel, man! You sit in front of all these people and pontificate on how it's all put together... Face ME! Now, in the darkness, and tell me how it's all put together!'"




This was from his own recommendation of a 5 gram trip, which ironically lead to the fall out of his close relationship to the mushroom and psychedelics in general. The "king of psychedelics" was crushed by his own suggestion.

I always hear people reference McKenna saying "bro if you really want to trip, you gotta do 5 dried grams in silent darkness like McKenna said!".

Like 5 is the magic number. If people want to play the number game, why not do 10,15,20 grams?? Some of my favorite trips have come from eating 150-200 grams of fresh field mushrooms. But the truth is, everyone is different so everyone should gauge it themselves.

Some of my favorite words of wisdom from Terence was: (paraphrased) "if you want to  be rewarded, you have to have courage. it takes courage to see what psychedelics have to offer".

There's a difference between talking about psychedelics, and suggesting to people to take high doses in order to experience what it has to offer, after being crushed by that same dose. This is why Dennis and his exwife Kat called him out about him not practicing what he preaches. Pretty simple to understand, really.

Anyway, some of my favorite speeches are his lectures from the Amazon, but he has tons of good stuff. Very knowledgeable on history too.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Colours]
    #26549378 - 03/21/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well from what I’ve heard he said 5 grams “is where the rubber meets the road” and it sounds like on that one specific trip the rubber did indeed meet the road and he decided to take a break.  I’ll be mindful of my shit talking because there’s a chance that exact same thing will happen to me, or not, or maybe.. the possibility is there.


I would like to hear more about this bad trip though, and hear his take on it and how he describes it.



--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


Edited by Amanita86 (03/21/20 06:03 PM)


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Offlinejdawg333
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Amanita86] * 1
    #26549604 - 03/21/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think I remember hearing that the trip had something to do with him getting 'crushed by an enormous boot'. He kind of challenged the psychedelic to see what it had, and it showed him that he could be utterly and completely destroyed for it. I'm not sure if this is just some weird, mistaken memory or if I actually read that, but I have a feeling his issues had less to do with psychedelics and more to do with personal issues based on that interview with his brother.


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OfflineColours
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: jdawg333]
    #26549989 - 03/21/20 11:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jdawg333 said:
I think I remember hearing that the trip had something to do with him getting 'crushed by an enormous boot'. He kind of challenged the psychedelic to see what it had, and it showed him that he could be utterly and completely destroyed for it. I'm not sure if this is just some weird, mistaken memory or if I actually read that, but I have a feeling his issues had less to do with psychedelics and more to do with personal issues based on that interview with his brother.




I know what you're talking about. It was a different bad trip from his really bad one. He said it was like a giant lady stepping on him in one of his silent darkness trips, and she was saying something like "is this hard enough for you?" or something like that. You're not mistaking yourself. If I can find info again, I'll post it. Ive been intrigued to go back and find this info on his bad trip(s). Will probably search around tomorrow.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: Sabnock]
    #26550077 - 03/22/20 01:41 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Many, many years ago, Sabnock, I checked myself into the psychiatric ward in the local hospital, after a few intense mushroom and lsd trips. Literally thought I was going mad, after a couple of years of real intense overuse. The hospital sent me home with a counsellor who came out to talk with me a couple of times a week.
‘I got the strangest feeling after about 3 months and asked him directly whether or not he had taken psychedelics. When he admitted he had never taken any of the drugs he was advising me in, I asked him to leave. I’ve never gotten over how I felt that day......


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Terence McKenna [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26550126 - 03/22/20 02:51 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Many, many years ago, Sabnock, I checked myself into the psychiatric ward in the local hospital, after a few intense mushroom and lsd trips. Literally thought I was going mad, after a couple of years of real intense overuse. The hospital sent me home with a counsellor who came out to talk with me a couple of times a week.
‘I got the strangest feeling after about 3 months and asked him directly whether or not he had taken psychedelics. When he admitted he had never taken any of the drugs he was advising me in, I asked him to leave. I’ve never gotten over how I felt that day......




Well, LSD is one thing, it's more prone to causing psychosis, as well as HPPD, compared to something like mushrooms, or Psilohuasca, or DMT/Ayahuasca, primarily because LSD binds to and activates the Dopamine 2 receptor, whereas the Tryptamines like Psilocin do not, i don't think DMT does either but i'm not sure but Psilocin definitely not. But yes, in general, overuse, especially when you should probably be taking a break or spacing things out a bit, can probably send you over the edge.

Personally, i had nothing but good come from my 4 year daily/near daily full on Ayahuasca experiences, i did go a little what i would deem as "crazy", or rather, unstable, during that time but that was solely due to my use of Cannabis not only while on Aya but also in the day to day, which while on Aya i was sober-minded and "together" as can be, for the most part, but in my day to day, Cannabis caused me to become kind of paranoid and anxious and made me feel really uncomfortable. So overall, Cannabis caused me more problems than my 4 year regular consumption of Aya did, so that's also something to look out for if one concomitantly consumes Psychedelics on a regular basis or at intense dosages with Cannabis. I also smoked Tobacco a lot so that generally helped me with groundedness. I recently quit smoking Cannabis specifically because, even though i haven't touched oral DMT in 5 years now except for a very light dose of Mimosa a couple months or so ago, Cannabis is like a full blown Psychedelic for me now so i can't smoke it unless i wanna go deep so i quit smoking it. But had it not been for the Cannabis, i would've been just fine even with my rather excessive consumption of Ayahuasca for 4 years, even though i was consuming fully immersive, intense, overwhelming dosages.

Granted, people are different, and it's hard to say what's what exactly when it comes to some of the reactions some people have, especially due to really intense experiences or regular consumption, and some people do have pre-dispositions to psychosis and such, so maybe i'm just lucky that my use didn't send me over the edge lol, but with that said, people in South America purportedly consume Ayahuasca very regularly for years and years, decades even, maybe not daily/near daily lol but pretty regularly still, and you generally don't hear about shamans going crazy over there, if anything, they seem pretty dang level headed, and i can see why lol.


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Edited by Sabnock (03/22/20 03:00 AM)


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