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OfflineNaturesystem
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I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for.
    #26543654 - 03/18/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you all for any help first off.

After soaking Rye grain for 48 hours with 1/4 tsp of gypsum in each jar do I just dump the contents of the jars into the pot to heat or do I drain the soaking water and pour the hydrated grain into a pot with fresh water? I know they say dont rinse the grain afterwards but I haven't been able to find a clear answer as to whether the soak water w/gypsum would benefit or hurt the future myseleum or the process in general? I've always dumped it and used fresh water before but I wanna be sure about endospores etc.

EDIT::: I may be using older methods but it used to be soak for at least 24 hours then heat for ten minutes. Pour onto a screen and let the grains dry by evaporation. Am I wrong and what teks do you guys advise looking at nowadays?

Second question. Has anyone ever used these to silicon glue to jar lids as filters or doubled/tripled up on them with any luck?



Edited by Naturesystem (03/18/20 11:33 PM)


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InvisibleHobbit GDF
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Naturesystem]
    #26543681 - 03/18/20 11:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I feel like that bag would work as the filter on a jar. It might need replaced after few rounds in PC. Good out of the box idea. I just drain my wbs after the soak. I don't ever heat it up until PC.


Edited by Hobbit GDF (03/18/20 11:03 PM)


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Naturesystem]
    #26543691 - 03/18/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

No need to heat after soaking 48 hours holy shit lol.
Id suggest finding a tek and following it. If that is a tek I'd find a more modern tek.
But also I prefer to use fresh clean water to simmer when I do a soak and simmer.
I usually soak a maximum of 24 hours but 12 is the norm. Lately I've been experimenting with longer soak period using sodium metabisulfite(a sterilant and preservative) to prevent fermentation and any unwanted growth. I got the idea from sockadin who mentioned using potassium metabisulfite and soaking corn for like 7 days.
Its worth mentioning that a simmer is not needed after a long soak but I drop the grains into boiling water to blanch them in order to steam dry.

Im not suggesting you try any of this I still suggest finding a more modern tek and sticking to it.

Also for jar lids I'd go get some poly its super cheap and works great. Or if you cant get that for some reason cut open a old pillow lmao.


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Edited by gizmo1 (03/18/20 11:16 PM)


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: gizmo1]
    #26543828 - 03/19/20 02:49 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah at 48hrs you are looking at the possibility of sprouted grains

24 hr max for me, and that smells like beer

#1 typically people use the soak water to simmer, but I doubt it matters much

#2 dont bother, either use polyfil or SFDs


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26543896 - 03/19/20 04:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sup giZmo.

So I have done 14 days as a soak with potassium metabisulfite and still no sprouted grains. That being said I always rolling boil steam them after and have found no difference in grain hydration. I'm starting to think soaking does nothing. And Endospores are killed during the PC run anyway so the only reason to soak in my opinion is for hydration.  I haven't done a side by side soak no simmer and no soak simmer, all of this is experimental at this point.

To answer your question, personally I do not rinse after the initial soak or simmer just drain the grains and boil in fresh water. Save your grain soak water for agar plates. Rinsing adds water to wet grains. I don't see the point really.

#2 if they are cellulose bags (made of paper) they will not work.


Edited by Sockadin (03/19/20 04:21 AM)


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OfflineNaturesystem
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Sockadin]
    #26544601 - 03/19/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you all for your help. This has cleared up a few questions that I've had for years and things that seem to be left out of many teks.

@Sokadin could you tell me more or link me to info regarding saving the soak water for agar plates and the benefits of it?


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Sockadin]
    #26545582 - 03/19/20 09:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Sup giZmo.

So I have done 14 days as a soak with potassium metabisulfite and still no sprouted grains. That being said I always rolling boil steam them after and have found no difference in grain hydration. I'm starting to think soaking does nothing. And Endospores are killed during the PC run anyway so the only reason to soak in my opinion is for hydration.  I haven't done a side by side soak no simmer and no soak simmer, all of this is experimental at this point.

To answer your question, personally I do not rinse after the initial soak or simmer just drain the grains and boil in fresh water. Save your grain soak water for agar plates. Rinsing adds water to wet grains. I don't see the point really.

#2 if they are cellulose bags (made of paper) they will not work.





Are you using feed grain or seed grain? I imagine the feed kind would be much less likely to sprout

Interesting idea for sure. Are you soaking that long to germinate endospores? Does your grain give you lots of problems without such a time consuming soak?


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26545590 - 03/19/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Feed grain.


  When I came back into this I thought longer soak ment more water content in the grain. Wrong.. I also did some fermented grains.

I don't believe in Endospores the Earth is round.

Oh and the grains did great, no issues with a longer soak or no soak boil. But they don't look overly hydrated and the Mycelium took the same time to colonize the grains.


Edited by Sockadin (03/19/20 09:57 PM)


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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Sockadin]
    #26545636 - 03/19/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yo sockadin how she going bruv.
So you say that the long soak didn't help hydration much?
Have you tried barley yet. The last run I did soaked barley for like 48 hours or somewhere around there. The grains were fully hydrated by the time the soak was up. I first noticed they were swelled up real good then checked a bunch by cutting them open. No dry starchy center just a dark hydrated center. Haven't tried with other grains but probably will I like being able to rinse the grains and leave them soaking in the bucket until whenever in the hell I feel like it lmao. Before I felt pressured to get to them before 24 hours was up and grain prep isn't really fun to me anymore.
It's weird I used to love prepping grain and harvesting fruits. Now I dread both. :shrug:
Op sorry for hijacking you're thread.


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Sockadin] * 1
    #26545639 - 03/19/20 10:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

What do you mean exactly when you say you dont believe in endospores?

I would assume you mean you dont believe in endospores surviving the autoclave, right? I agree with that, pc kills them for sure

But they very much do exist

So the point of your super long soaks would only be to get more water in the grain? It's fairly easy to over hydrate the grains on a simmer, much faster than that.  If all you are shooting for is grain hydration, What benefit would you be looking for that couldnt be obtained by a simmer?

I feel like I'm missing something


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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26545717 - 03/20/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

For me there is no real benefit because I don't buy into the germinatimg endospore thing but it is pretty convenient to just be able to walk away and leave that shit there soaking then whenever I feel like it drain off the excess load and PC. I don't simmer after a long soak. It's not convenient however if you need the grains right away but I always have a batch of jars sitting on my work table waiting for me to get around to innoculating them. Just experimenting.
Im not trying to speak for sockadin just giving my view.


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Offlineyojay50
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: gizmo1]
    #26545726 - 03/20/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

For the rye preparation you just rinse it until it reaches a clear rinse. Then you put it in a pot fill it till it's like 2 to 3 in over the grain. Then you bring it to the either a simmer or a boil whatever you prefer. And then you hydrated grains do not burst them. Then you drain and steam dry or would I like to do is just drain and then put out a towel and dry migraines on the towel not too rough. Then load it in the jar and pressure cook it.
Also I don't know about the gypsum the never made sense to me


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OfflineNaturesystem
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: yojay50]
    #26547578 - 03/20/20 08:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So you guys that say they don't simmer after a soak. What methods do you use to dry out your grains? Does it take longer than letting the heated grains evaporate with steam, do you physically dry with paper towels or what exactly?

I tried to dry with paper towels once and ended up with way too much cat hair in the jar 😆


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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Naturesystem]
    #26547640 - 03/20/20 09:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I lay it out on a full window screen in the bathtub

I put a fan over top the grains 15 mins at a time. Stir them, dry the screen (underneath the screen where all water settles) with a towel, place fan back. Keep doing that till I'm happy. I dry with towel too. Just run it over and threw the seeds.


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Offlineaful2.0
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Naturesystem]
    #26547674 - 03/20/20 09:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

step one soak the grain for 24hrs
step two rinse the soaked grain till the water runs clear.
step three boil the grains for 15 min.
step four strain grains in a colander and toss to air dry
step six load grain into Mason jars
step seven place Mason jar lid on jar with a tyvek filer between the lid and the ring with three 1/16 in. holes for fresh air exchange.
step eight cover tops of jars with tin foil and load into a pressure cooker.
step nine sterilize at fifteen psi for an hour.
step ten inoculate with your favorite fungus.


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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: aful2.0] * 1
    #26547706 - 03/20/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Wow there is alot here to catch up on.

Gizmo, are you enjoying the Potassium Metabisulfite soak? I love that I can have 10 buckets of grain soaking and use when ever. Works great for oats and corn. I have moved on to Safflower Seed and Black Oil Sunflower Seeds.

I need to get more oats soaking in that mix because they really don't ferment and they do hydrate better.

C10, yes you are correct. I do believe in endospores, but I also believe the PC run kills them.

The grain soak was a crazy idea I got from my last break cultivating because I was making wine.

Nature, I only believe in simmering grains. I don't believe in cold washing them after the simmer. I am a proponent of steam evaporation and not screen drying.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion.


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Offlineaful2.0
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #26547739 - 03/20/20 10:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

right so when you set some on a piece of tissue paper it hardly gets wet.


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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: Sockadin]
    #26547740 - 03/20/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

P.H. buffers are for casing layers and bulk substrates, not for spawn.


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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: aful2.0]
    #26547943 - 03/21/20 01:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Wow there is alot here to catch up on.

Gizmo, are you enjoying the Potassium Metabisulfite soak? I love that I can have 10 buckets of grain soaking and use when ever. Works great for oats and corn. I have moved on to Safflower Seed and Black Oil Sunflower Seeds.

I need to get more oats soaking in that mix because they really don't ferment and they do hydrate better.

C10, yes you are correct. I do believe in endospores, but I also believe the PC run kills them.

The grain soak was a crazy idea I got from my last break cultivating because I was making wine.

Nature, I only believe in simmering grains. I don't believe in cold washing them after the simmer. I am a proponent of steam evaporation and not screen drying.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion.



Indeed.
Quote:

aful2.0 said:
P.H. buffers are for casing layers and bulk substrates, not for spawn.



What PH buffer?


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Offlineyojay50
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Re: I have 2 quick, dumb questions that I can not find clear answers for. [Re: gizmo1]
    #26547970 - 03/21/20 01:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Dude look don't worry about your pH buffer at all. it's basically you pasteurize your  bulk substrate and then you take your clean spawn and you put it into your bulk substrate and then he eats it and there you go


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