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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting
#26545081 - 03/19/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hi guys!
So, I'm trying out a bulk grow, and I want to make sure that I haven't fucked it.
Basically, I'm using this tek: https://www.shroomology.org/forums/topic/8670-6-quart-dub-tub-mist-and-fan-bulk-tek/
It's been going really well, but I think, during the shaking phase, I shouldn't have gotten the vermiculite mixed in with the spawn. I'm concerned that it's dried things out.
I just want to make sure everything's okay, and, if not, how I might fix it.
Currently, I'm waiting for the spawn to get 100% so that I can transfer it to the bulk sub (coir). If I've managed to screw it by drying it out, I'm not sure what to do. It seems like the majority of the grain has at least some mycelium growing on it. The vermiculite is often myceliumless, but maybe that's not really a problem when it comes to contamination?
I mean, would a mold be able to compete with the mycelium in this case?
It's probably been around a month of colonization.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26545220 - 03/19/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Verm in your jar with your grain? I'm not sure what you got going on might need some pics for this one
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: rumfor69]
#26545361 - 03/19/20 07:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
rumfor69 said: Verm in your jar with your grain? I'm not sure what you got going on might need some pics for this one
Yeah. Basically, in the tek, verm is put in the base to regulate moisture. When I shook it, I ended up disturbing the verm in the bottom (a lot) and mixed it in with the grain. I know with pf tek, generally, there isn't much of an issue colonizing over verm. I don't see why it would pose a problem here, but maybe colonization over grain is different?
It seems like the areas with more verm are taking longer to colonize. Maybe I should shake one more time? Honestly, that doesn't seem like a bad idea, given that I already disturbed the bottom.
I can post some pics in awhile if needed. Gotta head out at the moment.
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: rumfor69]
#26545369 - 03/19/20 07:29 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for the reply btw. I'll be back with those pics in awhile.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



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Posts: 6,767
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26545448 - 03/19/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dunno if it would need shook again until I saw it. Sounds like you may be using an old tek to do your grain. Most people just soak, boil, then let dry in a strainer until the surface of the grains are dry. This would make verm in the bottom not needed.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: rumfor69] 1
#26545454 - 03/19/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Trash Tek. Easy to grow mushrooms, buy your spores here and then a picture of a flowhood. Like everyone has one laying around.
Go back to mushroom cult main page and click on the stickie that was written by Bodhisatta. In his signature is a link to everything you need. No vermiculite should be in grain jars.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: Sockadin] 1
#26545481 - 03/19/20 08:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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A.k.a
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: rumfor69] 1
#26545555 - 03/19/20 09:20 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I started off with that same site, it’s decent but got some outdated info like the ten day spawn run and not opening it during or it’ll totally for sure 100% instantly contam.
A little verm in the bottom of the jar is fine, as long as it’s like just enough to cover the bottom of the jar. It’s meant to absorb extra water so you can load grain wetter.
I actually still do it sometimes cuz it seems to rehydrate everything when I shake at 30% and mix the verm into the grain after ten days or whatever it’s been.
The only problem I have with that tek is the one legit bad piece of advice is at the end and almost murdered my first grow.
DO NOT sterilize a peat casing. It should say pasteurize.
Really I think going anywhere but shroomery is pointless. We have more helpful and super successful people and information here than anywhere else I’ve seen.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (03/19/20 09:20 PM)
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: A.k.a]
#26545573 - 03/19/20 09:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah. I agree with everything AKA said.
My if you need vermiculite to absorbed any excess moisture in your jars your lids are leaking or your grain prep is off.
Grain prep is as important as sterile work IMO.
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: A.k.a]
#26545593 - 03/19/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: Really I think going anywhere but shroomery is pointless. We have more helpful and super successful people and information here than anywhere else I’ve seen.
All fair points above, including this one. I wasn't sure which site was more active, tbh. I was fairly regular on the Shroomery a few years ago, but just went with the first thing I saw for a bulk grow via Google. Figured it wouldn't make too much of a difference. Guess I was wrong. 
Anyway, for the future I'll try out something else, but I'd like to troubleshoot this one for now and save it if I can. Here are some pictures of a few of my jars. I have a few different strains going at once: Huatla: https://imgur.com/gKKjOqC https://imgur.com/Z1Icpc7
PE: https://imgur.com/3i3s8ou https://imgur.com/OePAoMg https://imgur.com/qYl78xj https://imgur.com/FpKG9kN
Okay... I think those'll all work. These two jars represent the extremes of what I'm experiencing. The Huatla is seemingly doing the best at the moment. The PE is living up to its reputation to be slow to colonize. BUT, if you'll notice, it seems to be primarily failing to colonize around the substantial patches of verm.
Think I should give them all a shake to better distribute the verm and see what happens over a few days?
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26545669 - 03/19/20 11:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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So, I decided to shake a couple, one being the PE. Guess I'll see what happens in a few days and update? This has really been taking a long freaking time compared to my PF Tek grows previously. I can't help but think it's partially my inexperience, but it seems that the tek could be playing a role, as some of you have mentioned.
I'll update once (if) I see growth in the jars that I've now shaken three times. I'm beginning to feel like I should've gotten the verm mixed with the grain after my first shake. Lesson learned I guess. I'll probably try a different tek next time or alter this one a bit based on some research.
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26546176 - 03/20/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Shaking also stalls the jar for a couple days everytime. Once it’s colonized 30% or whatever and you shake it there should be enough myc spread around that you don’t need to do it again.
PE has normally been pretty quick to colonize jars for me, a month is a long time even for slower cultures.
You have pictures?
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LAGM2020     
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: A.k.a]
#26547754 - 03/20/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: Shaking also stalls the jar for a couple days everytime. Once it’s colonized 30% or whatever and you shake it there should be enough myc spread around that you don’t need to do it again.
PE has normally been pretty quick to colonize jars for me, a month is a long time even for slower cultures.
You have pictures?
No pictures right now. I'll update with pics on Monday, see if I see some growth or not. If not, I figure the best solution will be to inject some distilled water to make up for the verm.
To be honest, this whole ordeal might just end up reflecting relatively natural fruiting conditions. I guess we'll see. 
Thanks for the tip about shaking at 30%. I probably should've shaken more vigorously when they were at 50%, distributing the verm throughout. Even if they would've ended up dry over time, they probably would've colonized pretty quickly and completely had I done that.
At the end of the day, I figure this'll end up teaching me a lot about bulk grows.
Thanks for the support guys. I forgot how awesome this community is. I look forward to more and more grows.
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Edited by 22Carat (03/20/20 10:46 PM)
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26736961 - 06/11/20 02:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello all!
So, this grow has been crazily slow going, and it was put on hold for various reasons. I'm finally getting to the end of it.
What I ended up doing to fix the jars was two things: 1. I injected some distilled water into each jar, hopefully making up for how much the vermiculite dried out my spawn and 2. I loosened the lids on all of the jars, allowing for free gas exchange.
I did some comparisons, not very scientific, but initially I kept some jars as controls, injected water into some, loosened some and did both to others (one control, two with just the water, two with the loosened lids and two with both). My testing seemed to indicate that the biggest problem with this tek is actually the lid design. With the silicone port, the jars were completely air tight. This seemed to have stalled growth more than anything. The water did make a difference, so I settled on doing both to all of the jars, and now they're fully colonized.
I've spawned one jar to a tub, and it's now successfully colonizing the sub (coir and coffee grounds). I decided to use that one as a test, to see if pouring boiling water on the coir was sufficient to sterilize it and cook it. The myc is taking off, so it seems to be doing pretty well. I'm sterilizing the rest of the sub for safety's sake (I have the pc running as I type), but I suspect that it's not strictly necessary when working with cubes on this type of sub.
I'll keep you guys posted, and I look forward to taking what I've learned into future bulk grows. :-)
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26776451 - 06/23/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alright, I just put the tubs into fruiting conditions yesterday:

After doing some cursory research on dub tubs, I'll likely just leave them be unless they seem to need some misting. I did one with some polyfil to see if it makes a difference.
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26783905 - 06/26/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, my cavalier attitude, cutting corners toward the end, led to 4 out of 5 of the tubs being taken by mold. I think there are a few things that led to this:
1.) Not allowing the mycelium enough time to colonize the bulk substrate.
2.) Including coffee grounds in the substrate recipe.
3.) Going with one of the least "safe" dub tub constructions in existence.
4.) Not recognizing the mold before it released its spores.
There's still one tub left. It had a few extra days to colonize, and there's less substrate in that one (plus that sub wasn't sterilized in the same way). My fingers are crossed that that one will pan out, but I suspect that it's fucked. I've isolated two of the better looking tubs as well, and maybe I'll manage to get some mushrooms from those tubs despite the mold. Guess we'll see.
I'm looking forward to trying again. I think the next time I'll follow more established procedures to the letter, and I think I'll do a PF Tek grow next to a bulk grow. I've had luck with PF Tek before, so I'm certain that I can make that work. Worst case, the bulk grow fails and I still have PF Tek to fall back on.
Thanks for this community guys. Keep up the good work.
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dfwerydfhg
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/20
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: 22Carat]
#26783928 - 06/26/20 08:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seems a lot of people have trouble going from spore syringes straight to grain- spores always have at least a little contamination, and grain is a super nice environment for them to grow. As I understand it the PF Tek spawn makes it harder for contamination to get a foothold, and when fruited as cakes they never get spread out to a bulk substrate where contams can get more established.
As a newbie myself, I can wholeheartedly recommend the agar route as a great learning experience. Once you've got a known clean culture, you can inoculate just about anything you want. I've had great success with Bod's method. Haven't tried any of the no-pours.
I went PF Tek -> cloning a fruit to agar (cleaner than starting from spores) -> transfers on agar -> inoculating grain from agar -> shoeboxes. Lots of opportunities for learning at every step!
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22Carat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 1,378
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Re: First bulk grow: Dub Tub troubleshooting [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26783937 - 06/26/20 08:28 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: As a newbie myself, I can wholeheartedly recommend the agar route as a great learning experience.
This is loosely the plan. I still have some syringes, so I'm thinking I'll try to plate them and make an isolate. I'm not sure how well that'll work, going from syringes to an agar plate to an isolate on agar, but I figure it's worth a shot and it should work fine, hypothetically. I'll then use the isolate to inoculate some WBS (agar wedges) while I do my PF Tek grow in tandem.
I'm not really sure what went down with this grow, but, repeatedly, I had colonization slow or stop completely. I'm hoping that isolating a vigorous strain on agar will help with the bulk process.
But yeah, I agree, I learned a lot from this grow and hope to learn as much as I can with the next one.
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