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OfflineMooshi97
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Cant get new grains to colonize
    #26542755 - 03/18/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So I've always used wbs and it has worked  great, but I grew tired of it and wanted to try a new grain. I picked up some whole wheat from the feed store. Rinsed and clean cleaned it. Hard boiled until hydrated about 20 minutes. Strained and dried until no longer wet on the outside. Then PC'ed for 2 hours at 15 psi. Then inoculated by LI with fully colonized agar plate. But it is just not germinating at all it's been a week. I did wbs with the same culture and its colonizing fine. I also tried LI on oats and that barely colonized too it germinated but didnt move at all for weeks. What's up with this. I'm not being impatient because my wbs colonizes fine within 10 days with my LI


Edited by Mooshi97 (03/18/20 03:14 PM)


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26542929 - 03/18/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

We are gonna need some pics. My guess is bacteria, it can really stop mycellium in it's tracks on grain but without posting pics you won't get much helpm Also you said you used LI from a colonized plate but then didn't get germination on grains. This doesn't really make any sense.

Post some pics if you can. :thumbup:


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: gizmo1]
    #26542934 - 03/18/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

How long did you wait for your jars or bags to cool?


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: gizmo1]
    #26542946 - 03/18/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)



What I meant is I made LI from a colonized plate, and I let the jars cool overnight


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: gizmo1]
    #26542949 - 03/18/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

And what I meant is I poured the LI but no myceluim has started growing


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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26542971 - 03/18/20 04:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yea I got you man was just giving you a heads up on the terminology. As far as the grains they look ok doesn't really look overly wet or anything like that. Visually looks ok. How long did you say it's been?
How many jars do you have? If you have more jars maybe try giving one of them a shake or roll it to see if there are any colonized grains. I still feel like it's bacteria by all means the mycellium on those agar pieces should have recovered after 10 days. Also what lids are you using?


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Edited by gizmo1 (03/18/20 04:10 PM)


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: gizmo1]
    #26542987 - 03/18/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It's been a week with LI it usually takes 2 days for my wbs to recover. I have 8 other jars that all look the same. And I'm using no mod plastic lids. I gave them a shake and nothing


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OfflineSynKyd
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26542993 - 03/18/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mooshi97 said:
It's been a week with LI it usually takes 2 days for my wbs to recover. I have 8 other jars that all look the same. And I'm using no mod plastic lids. I gave them a shake and nothing




No air exchange at all?


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26542997 - 03/18/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Are the lids loose. Did you wrap the gap with anything? I've had similar problems with unmodified lids stalling jars when I had them too tight or if they were warped where they stayed tight even when backed off. Also used to wrap the gap with parafilm that stalled the jars. Try loosing the kids some and making sure the gaps aren't covered then let us know how that works out for you.
Did you vent the PC before sterilizing?


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: SynKyd]
    #26542998 - 03/18/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I do a quarter turn loose for plastic no mods. And ya vented for a full 10 minutes like always


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26543079 - 03/18/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Alot of people like unmodified lids including some TCs but imo they fuckin suck. I g2ged 10 jars with half unmodified and half polyfil and the ones with poly beat out the others by over a week. This was by no means a controlled scientific experiment though. It's also not the only thing that had a hand in me forming my opinions on unmodified lids. I'm still using them and haven't ruled them out but I have had jars slow down so much I thought they were stalled because of them. They would turn out to be clean like some 3 months later lmao.
I'm not saying this is your problem it could be but I'm still thinking it's bacteria. Maybe try dropping some uncolonized grains straight to a dish see what grows that is if you don't mind sacrificing a jar.

You can blame the grains if you want but it's not likely that the grains are you're problem, especially if you sterilized them correctly. I feel like you already might have your mind made up though. Ive heard of people getting batches of oats that wouldn't work. Never heard of that problem with wheat. One of our TCs Boogie was having a bacteria problem with wheat that he couldn't quite figure out but I'm thinking he eventually figured out he had a bad guage and it was something to do with the PC cycle. I don't quite remember.

Well anyways good luck I hope you figure out what your problem is, I'm routing for you. :thumbup:


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: gizmo1]
    #26543116 - 03/18/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I'm definitely gonna try again with different lids and just make sure my sterile procedure is down 100%. I appreciate all your help


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26543290 - 03/18/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Do you think your wheat was treated with antifungals?

Post a picture of the wheat bag and then one of the ingredients if you still have the bag please.


Edited by Sockadin (03/18/20 06:57 PM)


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OfflineMH5109
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Sockadin]
    #26543313 - 03/18/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The anti fungals don't stop mycelium from growing, I thought they stop spores from germinating. Im not sure but thats just what I was told.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: MH5109]
    #26543317 - 03/18/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Possibly I have no experience in the later. Just a thought.


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InvisiblePiptheGreAtest
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Sockadin]
    #26543425 - 03/18/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I’ve had this same problem with producers prides whole oats. I had WBS previously in jars that work fine. I do the same thing as you boil 20-30 minutes, air dry seems all good. I’ve tried knocking them up with agar LI and grain slurries have had both methods fail. I’m going get some white Miller tomorrow.


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Sockadin]
    #26544483 - 03/19/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That idea ran across my mind but I think it has to be bacteria somewhere in my sterile procedure, but why would my wbs be forgiving is weird for me because it has no contamination not even bacterial.


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26544499 - 03/19/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

This is all it has on it. I also added DE for bugs. But I rinse it all off so that cant be it.


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26544502 - 03/19/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Got plate pics?


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26544509 - 03/19/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LadysKnight said:
Got plate pics?



Not from that round no


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26544513 - 03/19/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Even if everything else is wrong, if the plates are healthy, seems odd the agar isn't fuzzing up


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26544528 - 03/19/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Your problem is probably your agar but it could be your lids or your grain prep. Do u have a pic of WBS jars that are doing fine?


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: SFS96]
    #26544545 - 03/19/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SFS96 said:
Your problem is probably your agar but it could be your lids or your grain prep. Do u have a pic of WBS jars that are doing fine?



I just spawned most of my jars but here's one I inoculated a couple days ago


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26544561 - 03/19/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah that weird that your getting growth on the wbs and not the wheat. Do u think that your wheat is maybe under hydrated?
Edit: here’s a link to a good wheat prep Tek if u haven’t found one DawgyStyleWheatPrep


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Edited by SFS96 (03/19/20 12:05 PM)


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: SFS96]
    #26544572 - 03/19/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SFS96 said:
Yeah that weird that your getting growth on the wbs and not the wheat. Do u think that your wheat is maybe under hydrated?
Edit: here’s a link to a good wheat prep Tek if u haven’t found one DawgyStyleWheatPrep



It was definitely hydrated all the way. I think ur right about the agar may have been a bad plate . I'll check out the tek thanks!


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OfflineMooshi97
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26544576 - 03/19/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Ya that's the one I followed to the T


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: Mooshi97]
    #26544604 - 03/19/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I’d say it would have to be your agar. There’s not any mycelium growing on those chunks that are in your jar. Maybe you just had a some bad plates, and I doubt it’s your lids because even in a completely sealed jar your agar will still show growth.


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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: SFS96]
    #26545652 - 03/19/20 10:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Are antifungals commonly added to feed grains?


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Cant get new grains to colonize [Re: gizmo1]
    #26545794 - 03/20/20 02:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Possibly but I believe that would only prevent spores from germinating.


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