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OfflineReynardTheFox
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: hTx]
    #26548418 - 03/21/20 11:04 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

I've never found ald52 to be shorter duration. That's assuming it was actually ald52. Who knows? Definitely at least LSD. Perhaps your blotters were something different? Definitely shouldn't be shorter duration. How many times have you done it? Was it your dose maybe?


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Invisibleillustrain
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26548482 - 03/21/20 11:35 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Generally its 5-ht3 antagonism that helps nausea...there are some selective 5-ht2c agonists(think Locaserin) which can have nausea as a side effect, but their action at the receptor is much more selective than what you see here. LSDs affinity 5-10x higher at 5-ht2a then these analogs are at 5-ht2c...I would think you are correct and their increased affinity might mean a higher likelihood to induce nausea in some people, but overall they are still quite a bit more selective for 5-ht2a in practice(as prodrugs), but that would depend on their efficacy at said receptor and what kind of doses we are talking about.

I imagine its more likely that other targets and downstream effects are a more primary cause of nausea at lower dosages but their increased 5-ht2c affinity could play a larger role at higher dosages, depending on their IA at the receptor.





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Offlinesk8fast
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: illustrain]
    #26548631 - 03/21/20 12:50 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

I've only tried the analogue AL-LAD of LSD and it had shorter effects and seemed to have a euphoric push to it like it couldn't ever get a dark tone to it like some of my LSD trips. Maybe it was the dosage. I'm not saying LSD is dark AL-LAD was just lighter and more cartoonish than LSD to me


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: ReynardTheFox]
    #26548794 - 03/21/20 02:13 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

I had legit 1p-lsd, lasts about 9 hours versus lsd which is 12 hours.


...
I thought this was common knowledge.


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OfflineReynardTheFox
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: sk8fast]
    #26551192 - 03/22/20 05:15 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

How many acid trips do you have under your belt? In my experience, LSD can be many things and have quite different qualities from trip to trip. It's not always as easy to distinguish between these drugs as one might assume. That's been my experience at least. Dose too might be an issue.


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: sk8fast]
    #26551635 - 03/22/20 09:29 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

sk8fast said:
I've only tried the analogue AL-LAD of LSD and it had shorter effects and seemed to have a euphoric push to it like it couldn't ever get a dark tone to it like some of my LSD trips. Maybe it was the dosage. I'm not saying LSD is dark AL-LAD was just lighter and more cartoonish than LSD to me




AL-LAD was not part of this study.

But I absolutely agree with your assessment of AL-LAD, I especially enjoy it for day tripping.

Quote:

ReynardTheFox said:
...In my experience, LSD can be many things and have quite different qualities from trip to trip. It's not always as easy to distinguish between these drugs as one might assume...




^THIS, a million times this.

LSD itself can feel like a different drug from one experience to the next, especially at different dosage levels...so OF COURSE if you give someone a different compound(which turns out to be a prodrug) they are going to say it feels "different" from LSD. Even moreso when they have only used true LSD a handful of times.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/22/20 09:55 PM)


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: hTx]
    #26551646 - 03/22/20 09:35 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
I had legit 1p-lsd, lasts about 9 hours versus lsd which is 12 hours.


...
I thought this was common knowledge.




It's not...what is common knwoledge is that EITHER LSD or 1p can last 9-12 hours during any given experience depending on a plethora of factors...such as tolerance, how much sleep you had that week, what you ate that day, time of ingestion, how well it was absorbed, personal biology at any given time and especially dosage, and a layman without data which isn't even known yet can't possibly calculate equipotent dosages of each drug(except ballpark figures from anecdotal reports). So its like taking 75mcg of LSD one time and it lasting x amount, 100mcg of LSD another time and it lasting y amount and declaring that tye MUST be different drugs.

Even though LSD's trip length and intensity can vary from trip to trip even at the exact same dosage.

Also, the thing about prodrugs is that even though you would assume they would last longer because of the conversion happening over time...it also means that peak plasma levels may/will be lower than if you had taken M1 from the start..., for most drugs this doesn't mean much BUT LSD's long duration of action is not explained by its half-life, which is only 3.6 hours, its explained by its extremely low dissociation rate, so lower peak plasma levels could in fact affect the length of the experience.

To put it simply, even IF you could calculate a dosage that would lead to the same area under the curve if peak plasma levels differed it wouldn't be unimaginable that DoA would be affected.

-------------

The fact of the matter is, any differences between LSD and the analogs listed here are probably mostly due to pharmacokinetics and not pharmacodynamics.

The come up may be somewhat affected by pharamacodynamics, and ones headspace being shifted by the come up could affect how one feels through the rest of the trip...but for the remaining 90% of the experience any differences felt can be chalked up to pharamcokinetics and ones own expectations.

Don't underestimate how much ones own expectations could color the experience...people read about the "differences" in these compounds before taking them and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/24/20 09:40 AM)


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: illustrain]
    #26555492 - 03/24/20 06:57 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

illustrain said:
Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Generally its 5-ht3 antagonism that helps nausea...there are some selective 5-ht2c agonists(think Locaserin) which can have nausea as a side effect, but their action at the receptor is much more selective than what you see here. LSDs affinity 5-10x higher at 5-ht2a then these analogs are at 5-ht2c...I would think you are correct and their increased affinity might mean a higher likelihood to induce nausea in some people, but overall they are still quite a bit more selective for 5-ht2a in practice(as prodrugs), but that would depend on their efficacy at said receptor and what kind of doses we are talking about.

I imagine its more likely that other targets and downstream effects are a more primary cause of nausea at lower dosages but their increased 5-ht2c affinity could play a larger role at higher dosages, depending on their IA at the receptor.





Lol, you want some crackers with that salt??




Excuse me? What's that supposed to mean?


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Offlinemeepins
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #26611380 - 04/18/20 09:45 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Love this


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26614102 - 04/20/20 01:42 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Well i did do a shit load of reading on 1p before i took it.

Thanks for the info about LSD length of trip not wholly related to half-life i did not know that.
I remember reading reddit for a while and everyone seemed to agree that 1p was shorter in duration, had a different feel to it and could be a prodrug of 25.

I dosed 200ug and it was pretty tame, didnt last but maybe 8 hours total...girlfriend took 300ug and liked it.
The main difference i noticed was the headspace was a lot less trippy than L..i guess it WAS actually L but with the pro-drug conversion only what are you saying..1/3 the potency? Maybe even less. 100ug of real L was/is trippier/more profound than 300ug of 1p...been years though so tough to say from memory i remember being a bit unimpressed by it though.
I took 200ug of real L maybe a few months after 1p thinking i had a good idea of how it would affect me...
and MY GOD it was nothing like 200ug of 1p. It was WAY more intense. WAY trippier headspace and thoughts...even experienced ego-death and a feeling of being reborn..it was fucking amazing!


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: hTx] * 1
    #26614728 - 04/20/20 11:12 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I wouldn't be surprised if in HUMANS more than 1/3(of what actually reaches the bloodstream) gets converted to LSD...but it gets introduced to the bloodstream more slowly, meaning peak plasma levels won't get as high, and if peak levels never get as high it won't occupy as great a number of receptors and even if similar levels of occupancy are achieved it would be hard to predict how the trip would be affected by how quickly those occupancy levels are achieved. It's kind of like IV cocaine vs snorted...it's a totally different experience, you'd never think they are even the same drug, snorting more cocaine won't change that. I'm sure it has something to do with your bodies innate allostasis mechanisms, which allows it to temper the experience depending on how quickly occupancy is achieved.

Bottom line is the pharmacokinetics obviously change the experience, even if similar occupancy levels are achieved(which is far form guaranteed even at a higher dose) the shape of the curve will be different and this changes the effects. And as I previously stated, LSDs long duration is as much(or likely more) due to its extremely high affinity than its half life...so even at an "equipotent" dosage one shouldn't expect the duration to mirror LSD, even LSDs duration can vary pretty greatly at the same dosages from trip to trip, for a plethora of reasons...not to mention sublingual administration is not a very reliable delivery method, as far as consistency goes.

I'm not arguing, and I don't think many(if any) are, that LSD and all these analogs will provide the exact same experience...too many variables and its obviously very nuanced. Although I think they are a LOT closer than what many people would have you believe. But there is no arguing with the science...these are pro drugs for LSD and their actions, for almost all intents and purposes, for the majority of the experience, are caused by LSD.

I put that in bold because at the beginning, during the come up and shortly after, these substances are probably exerting effects of their own and coloring the experience...there is no predicting how what head-space this puts one in affects the rest of the trip nor what affect it has on allostasis nor future occupancy levels of LSD.

Also, this whole thing becomes much cloudier and confusing because very often when people think they are taking "real" LSD, they aren't...they are taking an RC which isn't even a lysergamide...it could be that they are getting an experience closer to LSD from these analogs than from the supposed "real" LSD they took on some other occasion. Not that these substances aren't extremely powerful and capable of providing great experiences in and of themselves, they are just different from LSD...in my experience LSD provides a much clearer headspace than most of the super potent RCs which are capable of being delivered on blotter/gel.


Edited by Holybullshit (04/20/20 11:26 AM)


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OfflineAz88
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Re: Study Finds ALD-52, 1P-LSD, and 1B-LSD Are Prodrugs of LSD [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26648800 - 05/04/20 08:01 PM (24 days, 8 minutes ago)

Thank you for sharing this. ...now to find 1B-LSD in America...


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