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OfflineZenn
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Cold processed mushroom extraction. Edit: results.
    #26537728 - 03/16/20 12:53 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thought I would just share my take on an extraction for 2. There may be similar or better methods already but i decided to put this one together from others like:
Lemon Tek (the acidic aspect),Stamets Blue Juice (the ice aspect), NRG Tek & Stamets MD protocol/stack (use of Niacin), alcohol extraction (use of 40% vodka).

So the idea for 2

100ml vodka (absolut Lime 40% ethanol 60% water)
400mg vitamin E (soluble powder 99% pure d-alpha tocopherol)
400mg niacin (vitamin B3. soluble powder)
2000mg ascorbic acid (vitamin c)
Citric acid (edit: guess approx 1000mg/1500mg)
60g fresh cubensis. (GT in this case)
Sodium hydroxide or sodium bicarbonate (for acidity regulator.)


Combine vitamins and citric acid with room temp or tepid vodka (aids solubility for the powders) in a blender cup. I aimed for a pH of roughly 2 to 3.
Once dissolved can put in freezer to chill. The powders may separate again a bit if left too cold to start with but dont separate as much in the fridge.
Once the vodka is good and frosty the fresh material can be added and then blitzed with the blender. Due to the vitamins C and E the fresh material doesn't turn blue so seem to avoid oxidation.
Blender cup then goes back to the freezer until at least the next day or 2. Occasionally shaken since the 40% doesn't freeze and stays liquid.
Blended liquid with frozen pulp is a sort of yellow colour. Almost like pineapple juice but not as bright. Nothing added to the "smoothie" had colour apart from the fresh material.
If left long enough the pulp will hold shape long enough to remove a frozen puck from the blender cup, which is left to thaw in a filter to collect the liquids. The pH will then be adjusted with acidity regulator  for pH closer to 6.

Progess: currently straining, so pictures or effect report are still to follow.

Thanks for looking :smile:


Edited by Zenn (03/17/20 09:13 AM)


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Offlinedk-1

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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26537754 - 03/16/20 01:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

what are the supplements for?


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OnlineDJ Ed
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26537760 - 03/16/20 01:41 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You haven’t stated your weight of citric acid; given advice I’ve had from PrimalSoup, I estimate you’ll have used approx 1.5g citric acid to give a 1:40 ratio to the 60g cubensis?


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26537773 - 03/16/20 02:08 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dk-1 said:
what are the supplements for?




The vitamin C is ascorbic acid which has an acidity of pH almost 2. This and the citric acid act like lemon juice does in lemon tek which also has a pH level of about 2. If I remember the words correctly the acid pH is almost as high/low as stomach acid which is pH 1.5. The acidic environment is what converts the psilocybin into psilocin (Correct me if I'm wrong). Vit C is also an antioxidant just as Vitamin E is. They also work very well together to protect the against oxidation of cells. So this is why it doesn't turn blue.

The niacin/Vit B3 I believe aids the absobtion in the right pathways of the brain (again correct me if wrong. I did lots of homework from various sources) Paul Stamets has talked about the use of Niacin and it is also an active ingredient in 'NRG tek' which uses monster or rockstar.
Hope this helps :smile:


Quote:

DJ Ed said:
You haven’t stated your weight of citric acid; given advice I’ve had from PrimalSoup, I estimate you’ll have used approx 1.5g citric acid to give a 1:40 ratio to the 60g cubensis?




Is that the weight in combination with ascorbic acid? I used a combination of both to reach a pH of about 2 (going by the colour indicator pH test papers). I cant remember precisely the weight of the citric acid as my damn battery died. But had a little measuring scoop that is meant to be 0.5mg. So it was 2 or 3 little scoops so probably about 1.5g.

It will be divided into 2 small 50ml bottles once complete.


Edited by Zenn (03/16/20 02:11 AM)


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OnlineDJ Ed
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26537774 - 03/16/20 02:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I’m not sure as P.S. only talks about citric acid. I just use lemon juice, by eye! But it does sound like you know what you’re doing. If you do get the ratio correct, it can significantly potentiate the psilocybin and psilocin that you extract 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26537782 - 03/16/20 02:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
I’m not sure as P.S. only talks about citric acid. I just use lemon juice, by eye! But it does sound like you know what you’re doing. If you do get the ratio correct, it can significantly potentiate the psilocybin and psilocin that you extract ����




That's the plan. It's why I've added the acids to the liquid before adding the fresh materials.

If you just using lemon you are using citric acid and ascorbic acid hahaha :smile:

I tried fresh with fruit juices and was very pleased/surprised. Recently tried NRG tek with dried and was extremely surprised how fast and hard it hit, especially since I hadn't long eaten. I just did lots of research of peoples teks and I think I did find something similar to this but using heat instead. So I decided to try the low and slow approach with the freezer instead. On paper I think it has worked well but best proof will be the testing


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OnlineDJ Ed
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26537793 - 03/16/20 02:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Had lemon tea made from fresh on Friday; the come up was super fast, and the come down, very clean.

I’ve tried all sorts of differing ratios, all random and non-scientific. One extraction, a 3.8g dry B+ does felt like 15g! I also ran out of lemon juice a few months back, so soaked in orange juice - that was a different come up, quite a bit different from lemon.

So many variables here that all seem to have some kind of effect on the extraction.

When making the tea from fresh, by using the lemon juice I don’t need to add any further water, as the lemon stops the initial burning, after which the mushrooms will boil in their own water. The beauty with citric acid is you can weigh it out exactly. Gonna have to get some from a home brew shop, really cheap from those shops.......


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26537798 - 03/16/20 02:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I definitely recommend using citric and/or ascorbic acid. I think orange juice has a pH of 3 or 4 so it's not quite as strong as lemon but still does the same sort of thing. ...ugh that just reminds me when I made a mistake once lol. Noob used fresh squeezed orange with fresh or dried, but a little too much. Added it to a cup of lentil soup. It maybe would have been nice if there wasnt so much orange as it cooled down the soup and it did not taste the best Haha.

Tbh I only have a very basic understanding of chemistry but I have a keenness for the practical work. Also what's partly inspired my research into extraction or other methods of ingestion is my partner cant do the tea. They have sensitive gag reflex. So far the best way he likes is capsules (poke holes in them) or stirring in powdered to a hot chocolate. He would have liked the NRG tek I think but it still has the matter of the pulp. So we shall see if this magic little shot will be a winner :laugh:


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26537803 - 03/16/20 03:07 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Here is a picture of the mixture just out the freezer.


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OnlineDJ Ed
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26537814 - 03/16/20 03:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah that’s quite a diffeeent colour from what I get. I’ve now got some fresh tea ice cubes, 27 x 0.75g each. Plan is to try them in a pina colada smoothie; your partner may be able to stomach that......



--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26537846 - 03/16/20 04:02 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I might try ice cubes at some point as I'd like to see the difference between this with vodka and a just ice water extraction.
Plus it's fun tinkering with this and finding other methods. Feel a little bit like Willy wonka or mad hatter haha.  I wanted to keep it to about 50ml max as can individually bottle the portions. It can then be mixed with pretty much anything someone wants to dilute it with or just taken neat on ice. I like the idea, and of ice cubes as that could be real refreshing when it's hot out :smile:

Will post pics once it's finished filtering and got it bottled.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn] * 1
    #26538388 - 03/16/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You guys really think that all it takes to covert psilocybin into psilocin is lowering the ph of what ever it is in? That seems too simple, anything publicized about it?

I think ethanol extractions are truly amazing tho... extracting in everclear seems to completely change the experience, in a positive manner, IME...


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26538633 - 03/16/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well, say you eat a bunch of fresh, they go into your stomach which is an acidic environment of about pH 1.5. So by using acids you can effectively skip that step of digestion (?)(correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty new to all this). Also from what I've read this method should extract by hydrolysis and dephosorylation (?)
I did find this that uses very similar methods but also uses heat and a few other things:

https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psilocin.extraction.html


Also, here is a picture of the finished product :smile:



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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26538687 - 03/16/20 02:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Ya I don’t know... I mean the acidity is obviously a factor in digestion but I don’t know if that’s the only aspect responsible for the conversion of psilocybin tho.. that seems like a stretch but I am just speculating here..

It looks very “clean” (not much garbage in it)... it’s effective? How concentrated is it?


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26538987 - 03/16/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

How effective it is I'm not yet sure. So final result yet to be noted. And if I have done it right each small 50ml should hopefully be the equivalent of the 30g fresh. As for more specific numbers on concentration I'm not sure.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26539004 - 03/16/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:
How effective it is I'm not yet sure. So final result yet to be noted. And if I have done it right each small 50ml should hopefully be the equivalent of the 30g fresh. As for more specific numbers on concentration I'm not sure.




Ohh ok so that’s about 3 dry grams per 50 mls... that’s why it’s so clear looking... I made my ethanol extract down to 1G per 1ML and it was pretty damn dark


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26540339 - 03/17/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah :smile: I could have tried to evaporate it down. I kinda liked the idea of a little "potion" bottle, from the colour and how I feel today after testing last night, I'd call it liquid sunshine hahaha!
So the results:

My partner and I used a little fizzy mixer to have it as a drink. He hadn't eaten in some time, and I had eaten maybe an hour before so I thought it would be a good test to see the difference in onset time if any.
It seemed to take effect within half an our for both of us. Didn't seem to be much difference between onset time on a full or empty stomach.

The taste: very tangy/sour which I quite liked but I think I hadn't adjusted the acidity enough...actually I may have forgotten to haha. Oops. But very little if any taste of mushroom.

Effect: just before things started happening, I got real warm. Very warm actually but I attribute that to the flushing effect niacin can have. I also got a very mild pinking on my inner elbows/crooks? Like prickly heat, but again that is attributed to the niacin. My partner didn't feel that, so I am just a little sensitive to niacin. I may use less next time.
We have discussed how we both felt and we have agreed that it was about a level 2 to 3 at times kind of trip. Very pleasant, slightly different feel. No notable nausea. Some nice visual. And I had a brilliant sleep after. Feeling pretty damn good today.
So id say yeah the above ingredients may need a slight tweaking but that was a very successful experiment. I'd also like to see the difference between the use or dry and fresh for this, and to up the dosage a little. Perhaps will try this same method but with heat. Perhaps with a mixture of heat and cold. See what's most effective. But I'd say this could work well. Worked for me anyway Lol!


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn] * 1
    #26540406 - 03/17/20 09:45 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Personally I would just stick to a simple ethanol extract with out the extra stuff... you can’t go wrong it’s seriously the cleanest experience you can imagine with fungus...


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26540483 - 03/17/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well the vitamin C is a good thing to add at the very least since mushrooms can lower your immune system.
Technically this was an ethanol extraction, but with things added for extra benefits. It was very simple. Added shrooms to frozen vodka and blended, put it back in the freezer and filtered. I imagine the usual ethanol extraction is ground shrooms added to strong vodka or higher alcohol, heated gently or left for days, filtered, evaporated? They both seem just as simple to me :smile:


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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26540487 - 03/17/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:
Well the vitamin C is a good thing to add at the very least since mushrooms can lower your immune system.
Technically this was an ethanol extraction, but with things added for extra benefits. It was very simple. Added shrooms to frozen vodka and blended, put it back in the freezer and filtered. I imagine the usual ethanol extraction is ground shrooms added to strong vodka or higher alcohol, heated gently or left for days, filtered, evaporated? They both seem just as simple to me :smile:




Ya no doubt they are both simple and both ways would work but I wouldn’t mess with adding vitamins to my extract... if you really feel u need the vitamins then take them that day a few hours before or after you trip IMHO


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