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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26540574 - 03/17/20 11:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I don't see why it's a bad thing to add them when you can check the research that people have already done into the benefits of adding vitamin c or such. If anything they help give it a boost.
But you do you :smile: each to their own. I did the research first before I attempted this. Just wanted to give it a try. And will try it again aswel as many other methods no doubt.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26540767 - 03/17/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:
I don't see why it's a bad thing to add them when you can check the research that people have already done into the benefits of adding vitamin c or such. If anything they help give it a boost.
But you do you :smile: each to their own. I did the research first before I attempted this. Just wanted to give it a try. And will try it again aswel as many other methods no doubt.




Well For one if you didn’t add any crap to it, you wouldn’t of had a flush of heat and prickly heat skin and it would taste better.... :shrug:

Not something I wanna be feeling while I’m tripping...


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26541151 - 03/17/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Alright lol. You can do the research yourself to find out the info, you might see why I did it.
Paul Stamets knows his stuff after all...
And I dont remember the taste being a problem. But good for you trying to make a problem where there isn't one. Just an experiment dude.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26541164 - 03/17/20 04:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:
Well the vitamin C is a good thing to add at the very least since mushrooms can lower your immune system.
Technically this was an ethanol extraction, but with things added for extra benefits. It was very simple. Added shrooms to frozen vodka and blended, put it back in the freezer and filtered. I imagine the usual ethanol extraction is ground shrooms added to strong vodka or higher alcohol, heated gently or left for days, filtered, evaporated? They both seem just as simple to me :smile:



I have to agree, I wouldn’t add the vitamins and stuff. I’ve tripped hundreds of times, and yeah next day I can feel pretty rough. That could be the wine afterwards, the dehydration, and the cannabis though. But I’ve never gotten ill. Take confidence, I have type 1 diabetes, so it would show up in me much easier than yourself. So don’t worry about the vita keeping you healthy, I reckon that’s a false goal.

Fresh is far superior to dried. That’s why (props again to PrimalSoup), from this moment on, at lest 90% of my harvests will be converted into lemon tea, nd frozen in ice cube trays. Best of all worlds, I reckon 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26541174 - 03/17/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:
Alright lol. You can do the research yourself to find out the info, you might see why I did it.
Paul Stamets knows his stuff after all...
And I dont remember the taste being a problem. But good for you trying to make a problem where there isn't one. Just an experiment dude.



Not trying to offend  you bro just stating why I think it’d be better to just keep it simple...not taking a stab at you


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26541194 - 03/17/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The ascorbic acid and citric acid ain't any different to using lemons though.... so say you leave out the niacin it's basically vodka and pure lemon juice.

Stopping the bluing was interesting effect of that. The fact it happened to be a vitamin and good for you (especially at the moment with Corona virus..) is just a plus.

As for the niacin I wanted to try Paul Stamets nootropic stack/the benefit the niacin has from that. The stack being:

psilocybe mushroom
Lions mane mushroom
Niacin

(I also have lions mane caps). So I definitely didn't add any "crap". If you dont want to try it you dont have to.
I was just trying a thing out. I already have the next experiment in the freezer, this time using about 7g or 8g dried and a couple small fresh. I let the vodka/powder sit in boiled water bath for like 5 mins before it went to the freezer.

To be fair I did say at the start of the post I know there will be other maybe better ways to do this. Put it this way i have aloooooooot of time on my hands and a curious mind so i often end up 'overcomplicating' things lol. Even in the kitchen hahaha.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26541959 - 03/18/20 02:35 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Hey zenn, props to you for experimenting and sharing here.  And yes, the lemon juice has more than certainly helped my fight germs off after tripping. And :Paul Stamets, I have a lot of time for him and own a few of his (expensive) books!

I was just backing up the other dude, not saying you were wrong to experiment. Please carry on, and please keep coming back; it helps all of us 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn] * 1
    #26542075 - 03/18/20 06:22 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:
The ascorbic acid and citric acid ain't any different to using lemons though.... so say you leave out the niacin it's basically vodka and pure lemon juice.

Stopping the bluing was interesting effect of that. The fact it happened to be a vitamin and good for you (especially at the moment with Corona virus..) is just a plus.

As for the niacin I wanted to try Paul Stamets nootropic stack/the benefit the niacin has from that. The stack being:

psilocybe mushroom
Lions mane mushroom
Niacin

(I also have lions mane caps). So I definitely didn't add any "crap". If you dont want to try it you dont have to.
I was just trying a thing out. I already have the next experiment in the freezer, this time using about 7g or 8g dried and a couple small fresh. I let the vodka/powder sit in boiled water bath for like 5 mins before it went to the freezer.

To be fair I did say at the start of the post I know there will be other maybe better ways to do this. Put it this way i have aloooooooot of time on my hands and a curious mind so i often end up 'overcomplicating' things lol. Even in the kitchen hahaha.




Like I said I was just stating why I thought it’d be better to just keep it simple without adding any vitamins/citric acid, you don’t need to get into the semantics of it... I just think ethanol extracts are an insanely “clean” trip and I personally wouldn’t wanna mess with that... I’m glad this works for you though.

And as far as Paul Stamets is concerned, there’s a lot of talk about him being a fraud... I won’t pretend to know the details but Bod is always talking about it.  Maybe someone else here could chime in with the details or where to find them...


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26542237 - 03/18/20 08:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Hey zenn, props to you for experimenting and sharing here.  And yes, the lemon juice has more than certainly helped my fight germs off after tripping. And :Paul Stamets, I have a lot of time for him and own a few of his (expensive) books!

I was just backing up the other dude, not saying you were wrong to experiment. Please carry on, and please keep coming back; it helps all of us 👍🏻




Thanks :smile: the main reason for sharing was the fact it was done in the freezer instead of with heat. The fact I added things I guess is just additional info.

Quote:

SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:

Zenn said:
The ascorbic acid and citric acid ain't any different to using lemons though.... so say you leave out the niacin it's basically vodka and pure lemon juice.

Stopping the bluing was interesting effect of that. The fact it happened to be a vitamin and good for you (especially at the moment with Corona virus..) is just a plus.

As for the niacin I wanted to try Paul Stamets nootropic stack/the benefit the niacin has from that. The stack being:

psilocybe mushroom
Lions mane mushroom
Niacin

(I also have lions mane caps). So I definitely didn't add any "crap". If you dont want to try it you dont have to.
I was just trying a thing out. I already have the next experiment in the freezer, this time using about 7g or 8g dried and a couple small fresh. I let the vodka/powder sit in boiled water bath for like 5 mins before it went to the freezer.

To be fair I did say at the start of the post I know there will be other maybe better ways to do this. Put it this way i have aloooooooot of time on my hands and a curious mind so i often end up 'overcomplicating' things lol. Even in the kitchen hahaha.




Like I said I was just stating why I thought it’d be better to just keep it simple without adding any vitamins/citric acid, you don’t need to get into the semantics of it... I just think ethanol extracts are an insanely “clean” trip and I personally wouldn’t wanna mess with that... I’m glad this works for you though.

And as far as Paul Stamets is concerned, there’s a lot of talk about him being a fraud... I won’t pretend to know the details but Bod is always talking about it.  Maybe someone else here could chime in with the details or where to find them...




That's fair. Stamets and additives aside like I say above was mainly about the cold processing factor. So I may well try a normal ethanol extraction without the extras but in the freezer. When i can i want to experiment with many different ways of extraction and preservation.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26542380 - 03/18/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:


That's fair. Stamets and additives aside like I say above was mainly about the cold processing factor. So I may well try a normal ethanol extraction without the extras but in the freezer. When i can i want to experiment with many different ways of extraction and preservation.




For sure you very well might be on to something with the cold extract... I’ve never heard of anyone doing it that way and the thought is intriguing! I wonder if doing it in that manner with everclear would help to make a cleaner tincture... like I wonder if letting them sit in the freezer with everclear for a week or two or three would still extract the same amount of actives but possibly avoid more of the other crap like sugars, starches and everything else...  Then  After it is filtered it could be reduced...

It’d be interesting to see two tinctures of equal concentration  side by side. One that was cold filtered and one that was steeped in a double boiler and see if there’s any noticeable improvement in clarity with the cold one... wish I had more fungus, I would totally wanna try this


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26542386 - 03/18/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Just putting it out there, but “cold-filtered” beer is generally more expensive, and is used as a selling point 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26542555 - 03/18/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:

Zenn said:


That's fair. Stamets and additives aside like I say above was mainly about the cold processing factor. So I may well try a normal ethanol extraction without the extras but in the freezer. When i can i want to experiment with many different ways of extraction and preservation.




For sure you very well might be on to something with the cold extract... I’ve never heard of anyone doing it that way and the thought is intriguing! I wonder if doing it in that manner with everclear would help to make a cleaner tincture... like I wonder if letting them sit in the freezer with everclear for a week or two or three would still extract the same amount of actives but possibly avoid more of the other crap like sugars, starches and everything else...  Then  After it is filtered it could be reduced...

It’d be interesting to see two tinctures of equal concentration  side by side. One that was cold filtered and one that was steeped in a double boiler and see if there’s any noticeable improvement in clarity with the cold one... wish I had more fungus, I would totally wanna try this




Yeah it would be! I think the higher % alcohol used the longer that it should be left. My reasoning is because the actives are more soluble in water, but using something at least 40% doesn't freeze. The higher % may require longer to extract since it has less water (but I'm just spit balling).
Also when freezing fresh shrooms it ruptures the cell walls, and when defrosted they turn to mush. So by dropping them directly into freezing alcohol for at least 24 hours then left to defrost they will turn to mush but held in the alcohol as it does so. Could shake this and return it to the freezer once mixed. Eventually filter the matter from it and evaporate as per personal preference. In a study it was shown that freeze dried shrooms emitted a higher concentration in extract than that of dried and extracted shrooms.

As for with dry I'd maybe let the powder soak for a little bit to rehydrate before going into the freezer for however long? I've really enjoyed thinking about this

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Just putting it out there, but “cold-filtered” beer is generally more expensive, and is used as a selling point 👍🏻





Totally. Same for cold brewed coffees and stuff too. Cold processing just takes longer but with the likes of coffee, it has a smoother taste and a stronger kick compared to heat processed coffee


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26542634 - 03/18/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

This is SpunkyMonkey88's thread that I am referencing for my intended use of an Everclear extraction this summer--
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26523717#26523717

Zenn, I wonder if it could be as simple as adding your selected supplements in capsule form on ingestion?

I'm sold on the linked ethanol extraction because 1) it's proven 100% effective and 2) It can be evaporated into a permanently liquid concentrate that will last indefinitely in the freezer and can be accurately dosed by a dropper.

I don't have the luxury of taking up all the space required for ice cubes-- nor would I ever trip often enough to warrant taking up that space for that long-- so if I can condense ounces of shrooms into  millilitres of liquid, preserving the active alks, it seems the best way to go for me.
But there's nothing stopping one from experimenting with alternate ways to get the magic out of the fungus

:cheers:


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: coAsTal] * 1
    #26542647 - 03/18/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
This is SpunkyMonkey88's thread that I am referencing for my intended use of an Everclear extraction this summer--
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26523717#26523717

Zenn, I wonder if it could be as simple as adding your selected supplements in capsule form on ingestion?

I'm sold on the linked ethanol extraction because 1) it's proven 100% effective and 2) It can be evaporated into a permanently liquid concentrate that will last indefinitely in the freezer and can be accurately dosed by a dropper.

I don't have the luxury of taking up all the space required for ice cubes-- nor would I ever trip often enough to warrant taking up that space for that long-- so if I can condense ounces of shrooms into  millilitres of liquid, preserving the active alks, it seems the best way to go for me.
But there's nothing stopping one from experimenting with alternate ways to get the magic out of the fungus

:cheers:




I did consider the idea of a "eat me" capsule and a "drink me" bottle lol. And to be fair is what I was originally thinking. Same process as what I did with vodka and citric etc and just have the powdered other in cap. But I then wondered if it was possible to add all of them together and this was the result haha.

I am a huge fan of everclear extraction, as with RSO cannabis oil I've tinkered with before, and will likely try to do one eventually with mushroom. To be honest the 40% vodka was partly because of the water content but also that it was more affordable than the likes of everclear right now :P


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: coAsTal] * 1
    #26543142 - 03/18/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
This is SpunkyMonkey88's thread that I am referencing for my intended use of an Everclear extraction this summer--
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26523717#26523717

Zenn, I wonder if it could be as simple as adding your selected supplements in capsule form on ingestion?

I'm sold on the linked ethanol extraction because 1) it's proven 100% effective and 2) It can be evaporated into a permanently liquid concentrate that will last indefinitely in the freezer and can be accurately dosed by a dropper.

I don't have the luxury of taking up all the space required for ice cubes-- nor would I ever trip often enough to warrant taking up that space for that long-- so if I can condense ounces of shrooms into  millilitres of liquid, preserving the active alks, it seems the best way to go for me.
But there's nothing stopping one from experimenting with alternate ways to get the magic out of the fungus

:cheers:



You list the same reasons as I had for trying a ethanol extract... I was hesitant at first so I just tried a 10 gram dose with the extract and after trying it I was completely sold... I went to the mart and got 2 more liters of everclear and made a tincture with the rest of them...

I have no regrets either because the shit is SO smooth! I love it! It is pretty damn dark tho...

In regards to what Zenn was saying about the water content... I’ve got this theory about that. I figure since the actives are very soluble in water but barely ethanol, I figure using high ABV alcohol like everclear would be just soluble enough to extract the actives but since there’s only 5% water it would help to avoid other water soluble “garbage “

I don’t know if there’s any validity to that hypothesis but all I can say is that an alcohol tincture feels WAY different from a water extract (tea)...


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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26543156 - 03/18/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zenn said:
Quote:

coAsTal said:
This is SpunkyMonkey88's thread that I am referencing for my intended use of an Everclear extraction this summer--
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26523717#26523717

Zenn, I wonder if it could be as simple as adding your selected supplements in capsule form on ingestion?

I'm sold on the linked ethanol extraction because 1) it's proven 100% effective and 2) It can be evaporated into a permanently liquid concentrate that will last indefinitely in the freezer and can be accurately dosed by a dropper.

I don't have the luxury of taking up all the space required for ice cubes-- nor would I ever trip often enough to warrant taking up that space for that long-- so if I can condense ounces of shrooms into  millilitres of liquid, preserving the active alks, it seems the best way to go for me.
But there's nothing stopping one from experimenting with alternate ways to get the magic out of the fungus

:cheers:




I did consider the idea of a "eat me" capsule and a "drink me" bottle lol. And to be fair is what I was originally thinking. Same process as what I did with vodka and citric etc and just have the powdered other in cap. But I then wondered if it was possible to add all of them together and this was the result haha.

I am a huge fan of everclear extraction, as with RSO cannabis oil I've tinkered with before, and will likely try to do one eventually with mushroom. To be honest the 40% vodka was partly because of the water content but also that it was more affordable than the likes of everclear right now :P




If cost was your only motivation for using vodka you could just buy a bottle of everclear and dilute it with a liter of water unless vodka is less than half the price of everclear...

I just figure that if im gonna do an alcohol extract I want as little water in it as possible (to be effective) while doing the extract otherwise your basically just making tea with some alcohol added to it... like your still extracting a lot of the same stuff as you would by just boiling fungus in water...


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OfflineZenn
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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26543711 - 03/18/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I get what you're saying about the everclear. I have to get that online or that spyrytus? Polish vodka that is about the same strength as everclear. Before I settled on 40% I was trying to think of what different % could work the best. Then the fact that actives are more water soluble I decided to go for a lower %. Ideally I'd have liked maybe 60 to 80% and had thought about getting 95% to dilute. Which I think I will be doing. I've caught an experimental bug hahaha.
Well funny you should say about the lower content being like tea with alcohol in it. In my research I found a reddit post that was someone doing blue juice, just the ice in a jar. Someone replied to that with what they said was a more full extraction and I guess this was one of the main ideas behind what I wanted to try:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/shrooms/comments/b3q8s0/paul_stamets_cold_water_extraction/

The top comment on that post is what took my interest away from blue juice a bit. (If it's ok to share links for reddit)


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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: Zenn]
    #26544030 - 03/19/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

By Law of Nature, anything said on Reddit is < anything said on the Shroomery


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I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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Re: Cold processed mushroom extraction. [Re: coAsTal]
    #26544059 - 03/19/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Perhaps it is. But it made me curious about other such methods which I tried to research and did find bits from various sources including here. One in particular was on here I think it was a chemistry student asking a question. Or an equation.... (goes to find it...)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10352763

There were others from here too
I cant rightly remember all the sources I found with similar info to some of the links I've shared, but all of it is very interesting reading.

I know that acid/base type extractions are used quite a lot for other things too. And essentially  ascorbic/citric acid and bicarbonate of soda or other could be used for this even if not commonly used (I'm still fairly new to the world of extractions so forgive me if I lack more chemical knowledge).


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