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OfflineFarmer_J
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Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed?
    #26536841 - 03/15/20 05:00 PM (11 months, 13 days ago)



Hello,

I am hoping to outline what I have done with my grow so far, and perhaps have help identifying what mistakes I've made so that I can optimize future grows and try to make the best of this grow. I think I have a decent grasp of the basic grow techniques, but my results have been sub optimal.

I used multi-spore liquid cultures to inoculate grain bags, which I then spawned to a pasteurized compost about 2 weeks ago. I layered the colonized grain and compost in foil casserole pans. I used foil pans because I had two "strains" and wanted to only have one monotub. As you can see in the picture with the two foil pans, one strain happily colonized the bulk substrate, while the other did not. That photo was about one week ago. The non-colonizing tray became contaminated with trych so I carefully disposed of it. 

The good tray rapidly colonized about 90% of the surface of the substrate within 1 week and then seemed to stall. I had been opening the bin to mist maybe once a day. I received conflicting information on another forum, some said that the colonizing needed more FAE, others said I should let the C02 build up more for better colonization. Either way, the tray stalled and the top seemed a little bit dry. I sprayed the substrate lightly with a mist to rehydrate it, the next day the mycelium appeared blue and bruised and did not continue colonizing. I think that was a mistake to directly spray the mycelium?

Last night I noticed the substrate had considerably shrunk away from the sides of the tray and was starting to pin with little primordia on the sides as you can see in the pics. I decided to pull the cake out of the pan and give it a dunk. Upon pulling it out it split in two, to reveal that it is not 100% colonized (maybe 85-90%) and was also not as dry as I thought, just dry on the top but not through the center. I let it soak in cold water for about 3 hours. I moved the cake into a small plastic bin and put it back in the monotub, with water in the bottom of the monotub and the whole setup on top of a heating pad. Kind of like a double boiler to keep the cake out of the water, but with the water to keep it humid in the tub (is this a bad idea?). The pins have grown since yesterday, some doubling in size.

At this point I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to induce pinning on the top of the cake? Or should I just focus on fruiting the sides of the cake as it is? Then I will at least be able to get some spore prints and try my hand at agar cloning and hopefully do better with climate control on the next round.

I'm considering casing the top of the cakes with a pre-pasteurized casing mix, is it even worth it at this point? 

I appreciate any direction, or constructive criticism on what I've done so far. Thanks!


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OfflineFarmer_J
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: Farmer_J]
    #26537751 - 03/16/20 03:34 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Are people not replying because they don’t know, or because I’m a dumbass?


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OfflineMH5109
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: Farmer_J]
    #26537817 - 03/16/20 05:26 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Man those subs look rough, I wouldn't have anything constructive to say other than use coir next time. Whatever looks kinda like mycelium on the tops of those subs looks really strange, but if you are getting pins on the sides id just leave them and harvest as they mature. Good luck.

And no you aren't a dumbass, from the sounds of it you are learning just like everyone else.


--------------------




Edited by MH5109 (03/16/20 05:27 AM)


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OfflineWeb1993
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: MH5109]
    #26537895 - 03/16/20 07:05 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

I’m new to this site but not new to the methods of cultivating cubes, if your receiving pins even from the sides all is not lost a decent amount can still be gotten; firstly I’d avoid using a heating pad under a mono tub, they work fine for set ups utilizing perlite under trays or cakes to produce humidity but for mono tubs I’ve found this dries them out far too much I’m assuming because all the moisture comes from the substrate itself, I try to keep my room at 74-76 degrees I find this temp works well for mono tub fruiting, but it’s hard to tell from your pics but it appears to me that you have a chamber with space unused by the substrate in that case 3-4 inches of watered down perlite with a cup or so of peroxide to prevent molds growing on the perlite should have been laid down to give you a better buffer zone of humidity in your chamber of course that’s no longer a mono tub but it’s about the same idea, also if use crumpled up wax paper simply crumple and unfold so it’s a flat sheet again but with ridges from the crumpling then lay over the sub straight being as clean as possible obviously, and leave until becomes damp usually a day then replace until you see pins pushing it up, that don’t always work some people call it a gimmick but I’ll swear to it working on stubborn grows of mine when nothing else was producing a good pin set this method did. I find genetics can make a grow much harder but with probably 99% good results can still be achieved but you may want to go back and read up a bit more on what method your attempting because what I saw in the pics didn’t appear to be a mono tub as I described above


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OfflineWeb1993
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: Web1993]
    #26537898 - 03/16/20 07:10 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Oh and just a reminder cubes will oxidize those metal tins you are using and you’re bound to end up with orange liquid on the bottom eventually happened to me many times before I realized what was happening


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OfflineWeb1993
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: Web1993]
    #26537905 - 03/16/20 07:15 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

But I’ve broken my substrate cake right in half by accident and I just patched it with a casing layer of verm and it healed quickly and with no lose in yields so those are by no means lost they look rough but they can bounce back from a lot of abuse sorry for not putting this in one post just didn’t occur to me at the same time that was a long time ago, gave up on trays after I saw how well a mono tub can do with less work other then preparing the tub and checking but done right you can set and forget mono tubs once fruiting for the most part very rewarding even with less then ideal genetics you’ll see more then trays will kick out in a similar environment imo


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OfflineFarmer_J
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: MH5109]
    #26538548 - 03/16/20 02:41 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Man those subs look rough, I wouldn't have anything constructive to say other than use coir next time. Whatever looks kinda like mycelium on the tops of those subs looks really strange, but if you are getting pins on the sides id just leave them and harvest as they mature. Good luck.

And no you aren't a dumbass, from the sounds of it you are learning just like everyone else.




Thanks for the input. Yeah I will try coir next time. I got this pasteurized compost from an online vendor, I used their grain spawn bags which worked great.

I had asked on another forum why the mycelium would look so strange on the substrate surface. It was very dendritic and reaching up off the surface of the substrate, which I hadn't seen in photos of other peoples grows. I'm still not sure what caused that to happen.

The substrate looks a little worse in my photos than it actually looks in person. The pins that had developed are still growing rapidly. So I'm happy it wasn't a total loss and I'll be able to clone some to agar. Live and learn!


Edited by Farmer_J (03/16/20 02:45 PM)


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OfflineFarmer_J
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: Web1993]
    #26538555 - 03/16/20 02:44 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

I’m new to this site but not new to the methods of cultivating cubes, if your receiving pins even from the sides all is not lost a decent amount can still be gotten; firstly I’d avoid using a heating pad under a mono tub, they work fine for set ups utilizing perlite under trays or cakes to produce humidity but for mono tubs I’ve found this dries them out far too much I’m assuming because all the moisture comes from the substrate itself, I try to keep my room at 74-76 degrees I find this temp works well for mono tub fruiting, but it’s hard to tell from your pics but it appears to me that you have a chamber with space unused by the substrate in that case 3-4 inches of watered down perlite with a cup or so of peroxide to prevent molds growing on the perlite should have been laid down to give you a better buffer zone of humidity in your chamber of course that’s no longer a mono tub but it’s about the same idea, also if use crumpled up wax paper simply crumple and unfold so it’s a flat sheet again but with ridges from the crumpling then lay over the sub straight being as clean as possible obviously, and leave until becomes damp usually a day then replace until you see pins pushing it up, that don’t always work some people call it a gimmick but I’ll swear to it working on stubborn grows of mine when nothing else was producing a good pin set this method did. I find genetics can make a grow much harder but with probably 99% good results can still be achieved but you may want to go back and read up a bit more on what method your attempting because what I saw in the pics didn’t appear to be a mono tub as I described above




Thanks for the tips!


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OfflineA.k.a
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: Farmer_J]
    #26538565 - 03/16/20 02:50 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

The one sub looks like it’s completely dried out on top.

I would try shoeboxes next time. Add a 1/3 inch layer of sub on top after mixing in the spawn helps a lot with protecting the myc and surface conditions. Unmodded tubs like shoeboxes or underbeds are simple, just mix them add the top layer and snap the lid on.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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Offlinealaskappalachian
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Re: Monotub bulk substrate only pinning on sides, how to proceed? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26538573 - 03/16/20 02:56 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Odd... I've had myc grow like that on soil before when I put spent/tammed cakes in potted plant soil (likely beccasue the soil dried up like in your sub).  Hopefully you'll be able to keep misting it with a good result.  I'd go grab some coir, hydrate a little over field ccapacity, and fill that bin to riiiight over the level of those dry blocks.  Then let it be for a few days.  One man's opinion.  Best of luck, bud.


--------------------

“Science does not need mysticism and mysticism does not need science. But man needs both.”
-Fritjof Capra

LAGM2021


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