Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26554287 - 03/24/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

to reduce a precognitive dream to guesswork is equivalent to saying that all of Shakespeare's works were in fact written by monkeys striking random keys.

dream states offer a great potential, w/ all of their contents able to be changed by our will in reflective consciousness.
cultures that value the experience of multiple realities do not accept the notion that sleep is a passive state, and the information obtained in these states is not disassociated from waking consciousness.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekitten6
hiker
Male

Registered: 05/13/19
Posts: 96
Loc: UK 0161
Last seen: 13 hours, 43 minutes
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26554428 - 03/24/20 05:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yes you could say that we have a will that we can reflect on afterwards while dreaming. But this will is  different from your normal will. It's the will of something that has been rid of physical and mental desires.

It is the will of our enlightened self, the closest that most people get to experiencing the will of the soul. And the will of the soul is the immortal will, the will that will never fade no matter how many times you die.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShr00mEater
Strange
Male

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26554492 - 03/24/20 06:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I believe that evolutionary theory is essentially the idea that, it is, in fact, exactly a monkey banging on a typewriter, or quill and parchment, that produced Shakespeares works.

So.... why couldn’t a dream state be both extraordinarily complex, even predictive, and also simply random occurrence without a directed purpose. Don’t our minds seem very good at prediction while awake? Is there some reason you think the predictive way our minds work should not be active while asleep as well?

I’ve been following but not commenting, I am enjoying your theories, it’s given me quite a bit to look into already.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26554600 - 03/24/20 07:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i believe, that within dreams there are certain level/places/locations/areas - that are each only accessed by certain states of consciousness.  that is to say, different consciousness states lead to different kinds of dreams, AND the dream state is facilitated by our intentions.  our individuals states will vary many times within a single night.  that's why the quality/content of dreams can vary so widely.  in some of these dream places the content is random, and to me the dream quality feels 'fake'.

in other dreamworld locations, where as 6 said, the will is accessing another state of consciousness, and you are in a different area of dreamworld location, thru your intentions, - there is a more directed purpose in the content and correlation to wake states of consciousness.

i also i don't see why all of the above couldn't be turned on it's head and reflected thru the looking glass, so that we could say the exact same thing about wake states of consciousness.  especially including the italicized bit above.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26554722 - 03/24/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

it's not about monkeys though they also probably have predictive experiences based upon the equipment we share with them, and it is not just about dreams so much as it is about our innate ability to 'project our minds' or 'direct our thinking towards' some matter of interest that is not here and now, and not just you and me.

I used the term "guess" above with a great deal of respect for what goes into an intuitive process, as opposed to a flippant guess in party talk,  or a mere bet against a horse race while jonesing for a win.

to guess intuitively we bring together as much as we can know about something and fish around in that cognitive milieu until something of interest emerges. Amazingly often this type of cognition ends up right on the money,  fair bit of the time, but not always, and it works not by some wiring or radio or other cosmic linkage other than 'it feels right' when considered in an embrace of totality kind of way - aka intuition.

I see no reason to conclude that material external to the brain and body is required for any of that.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #26554786 - 03/24/20 09:34 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

the non-material intuition, being an aspect of a non-local consciousness (outside timespace) cannot be fully explained by local consciousness states that access the local timespace datastream information.

consciousness of both local and non-local natures may be continuous, but to fully explain their continuity, aspects of a higher order are needed.

Quote:

If a man could pass through Paradise in a dream, and have a flower presented to him as a pledge that his soul had really been there, and if he found that flower in his hand when he awoke — Aye! and what then?

-- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Anima Poetae




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26554966 - 03/24/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

why do you think intuition is non-material?

intuition is just ideation that seems to have no single thread of "if this, then that" logical sequencing.

most of our thought is actually by intuitive linkage - it is basic and organic, and it is very much materially natural: usually more than a single candidate memory or 'insight' or perception is inspired by experiencing our world in any moment. The most suitably matched inspiration prevails, and that will be the insight, perception or other 'intuitive' response to the momentary condition, it joins the mix and the process continues day in day out: organic consciousness.

I am often amazed that people actually think this process is non-material, as if there were a contrivance that shunts ideas back and forth between organic bodies and discorporeal souls. (and how may I ask do those souls do their thinking, I mean really, at some point, some thing is doing the thinking, we do not need to push it into the ether just because it seems more complicated than digital computing. )


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26555266 - 03/24/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i don't think that souls/spirits think in the way that our minds or bodies think.  it does not relay and process information in 'thought' in the sense of adhering to the logic of Cartesian reality.  it's knowing is instantaneous, and meanings are conveyed through a instantaneous feeling.

thinking is for the parts of us that are participating in local consciousness physical reality.  non-thinking, or un-thought thinking is not a thought in the way that the mind or body has a physical reality thought.  these un-thinking thoughts are for participating in non-local, non physical reality.  thanks to the contrast between these two states, a place is created where perception can occur.

if you've ever been fully lucid in a dream, controlling your actions of your Dreamworld body, yet maintained full awareness of the sensation of your entire body in contact with your mattress, in this state of realization you see there is no subject (you) at the center.  at this elevated level of central nervous system activation, the self-referent perspective vanishes.

now, from this higher informational order state, thought and un-thought are both the same thing. from the perspective of this order there is no division in the distinction between physical and non-physical.

you would hardly see the moon if it were not for the light of the sun.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26555371 - 03/24/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

alrighty then


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Reality and illusions and so forth... Sclorch 2,697 15 06/24/02 12:32 PM
by Sclorch
* reality theory
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
1stimer 7,503 92 10/05/02 09:59 PM
by Calen
* Im Back!!! and still convinced free will is an illusion ;)
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
ZenGecko 16,131 148 04/22/07 10:22 PM
by PhanTomCat
* your mind COULD be creating reality
( 1 2 3 all )
Moonshoe 6,880 47 07/17/04 03:04 AM
by Source
* dream flashbacks? KingOftheThing 866 5 08/18/04 12:16 AM
by I2ancid
* What IS reality?
( 1 2 all )
manna_man 4,750 35 10/22/03 10:26 AM
by fireworks_god
* Dreams interferred with by God or your adversaries
( 1 2 all )
World Spirit 4,759 32 05/03/02 07:47 AM
by Tannis
* Reality vs. the mushroom
( 1 2 3 4 all )
AbstractSoul 10,548 64 02/18/02 03:36 PM
by AbstractSoul

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,530 topic views. 1 members, 12 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.02 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 12 queries.