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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26541431 - 03/17/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
dreaming or perceiving of doing something is equivalent to actually doing it.




I’m just going to go ahead and catapult myself off this statement. 

What is the standard for making an equivalence between what amounts to sense consciousness and non sense consciousness ? 

I don’t see a fundamental difference between dream consciousness and the consciousness of imagination during ordinary waking reality.  One tends to be more lucid and potent than the other but is it fair to say they operate on the same part of mind?

At any rate I’m going to assume they are the same part of mind.  And I don’t see how not bringing technicalities of qm into this isn’t helpful.  Anything else science is used to explain subjective experiences. Since the quantum state projects a relative reality collapsed where alternate non collapsed realities are shown to have substance through experiment I think it’s fair to call a given collapsed reality a “reality tunnel” in the sense that it’s a holographic projection from the grid of a space that transcends it.  Each reality tunnel depends on the observer participating in its progressive collapse in a holographic reality.  Since it’s projected and it’s Newtonian functions are only relative it doesn’t actually take up “space” as we are bound to understand it. 

I’ll just toss this out there.  I don’t really believe that we are without a connection with the psychic quantum state.  Possibly we vibrate in and out from the collapsing Newtonian world back through into a hyperspace where consciousness is the vehicle.  The body exists as a probabilistic superposition until the psyche bounces back from hyperspace collapsing the wave function.  This carries the idea that the psyche is accumulating information in hyperspace where it comes back and informs the brain through a collapse while making material changes to the brain without being produced by it.  It is the “soul” in the materialism. 

So dreaming IMHO being most vivid is a soupy meandering through a body that is alive but not woke and the vibratory surge through a hyper dimensional medium that becomes more apparent. 

Idk what to make out of this other than to say that ordinary experience, as in the hard stuff of materialism, is a holographic experience where parallel lives, worlds etc. are constantly operating on their own collapsed projections.  The psyche being able to detach from Newtonian reality likely operates multiple lives and experiences simultaneously.  It wouldn’t be perceived or understood that way because of the Newtonian stream of vibration but remembering it’s only a relative projection from a higher vibratory entanglement where parallel realities are able to operate in a transcendent simultaneous way.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26542097 - 03/18/20 06:39 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

on connections to physic quantum states...

in certain states (induced via meditation, drugs, sleep) the brain has access to higher order information.  what I found difficult at first was copying down impressions of this higher order information, while staying in that non-physical state.  just tying to successfully copy a piece of the this high-order information can be a challenge, because you can't use a piece of low-information in the copying of the higher information.  the information does not adhere to logical thought, so how to return with the information to the place of logical thought?  the higher order information is instantaneous and i was trying to also bring it into a time stream.

i would go forward in time, and write letters to my past self.  disorienting, yes, because my past self was getting all these letters, and the information within those letters was arriving out of order.  the high order information selects from the possible states of low order information, and thru this, rules out other states to generate information.

in this two way flow of information between states, a very powerful and finely-tuned feedback loop can be created - and information emerges. everything is a manifestation of this complexification of information.


Quote:

  "'Tis the voice of the Lobster; I heard him declare,
    "You have baked me too brown, I must sugar my hair."
    As a duck with its eyelids, so he with his nose
    Trims his belt and his buttons, and turns out his toes.'

--Alice




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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 2
    #26542824 - 03/18/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think you could even say that in this ordinary-psychic feedback loop what constitutes memory and it’s development over time is both of those orders.  Which would mean that the psychic factor brings it back through vibration into a non local space before it slings back into ordinary reality gathering more data.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26542828 - 03/18/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I think you could even say that in this ordinary-psychic feedback loop what constitutes memory and it’s development over time is both of those orders.  Which would mean that the psychic factor brings it back through vibration into a non local space before it slings back into ordinary reality gathering more data.





Right, I think this is a very good observation.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26543420 - 03/18/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I think you could even say that in this ordinary-psychic feedback loop what constitutes memory and it’s development over time is both of those orders.  Which would mean that the psychic factor brings it back through vibration into a non local space before it slings back into ordinary reality gathering more data.





Right, I think this is a very good observation.





Thanks :thumbup:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26544039 - 03/19/20 07:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
dreaming or perceiving of doing something is equivalent to actually doing it.




I’m just going to go ahead and catapult myself off this statement...




forget answers from quantum physics, pretty math, and contemporary science babble with respect to consciousness. That is science for energy, motive power, computing, and communications. Mind is not those things. a computer is not a mind.

if something is dreamed, or remembered, or experienced, then the neurons that represent that thingness  *all* fire simultaneously just the same as when they did or do while initially experiencing.
this is a de facto fundamental principle for associative memory to exist and to function in a living brain.

As to whether they *all* fire or not, the clarity and intensity of memory recollection, or of perception being one thing or another is relative to how much of the same constellation of simultaneous nerve firing is going on. The more of the same set, the more of the same mental actuality emerges, and the less disputable the memory or perception is. How much similarity is required for some perception or even mistaken perception is a moot issue, and will depend on more complete and accurate high speed brain activity scans - right now the nmr type heat maps are relevant for slow transitions, much slower than 15 clear perceptions per second which is something we need to resolve this.

While dreaming, a scene can be resolving from fog basically reconstructing from a multitude of partially matching associative arrangements - chimeras created from memories but blended dynamically to suit the mind's momentum of meanings (related to some central emotional or body feeling pattern) in electrical fields from related neuron patterns encoding fragments of memory (those being the same neurons that fired during waking experiences).

None of that work requires any reference to quantum states of sub atomic particles. If you believe that - you are dreaming.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26544057 - 03/19/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

the human brain in consensus reality seems like a logic filter trap, selectively extracting certain modulating frequencies from a field.  in modes of operating not based in consensus reality the logic- trap-filters seems diminished.  if we see the past as a non-material memory, then the past is also retained by our universes living present, and the future becomes the synergistic result.

consensus reality conscious states are coupled with large-scale coherence across the brain - this activity is highly synchronized in beta and gamma frequency bands.  what's interesting is the integration and disintegration of the above assemblies is coupled to the theta cycle, and the shifts can happen abruptly and simultaneously.

on shifting from consensus reality to dreamworld reality, there's an inversion of the senses. it seems the more aware we are in a dream, the more aware we are of our perceptions within the dream, and this seems to be linked to memory.  dream recall is linked to how memory is stored in the brain. why does the brain enter a state of amnesia, sedating the waking memory during sleep?

in oneirology, memory collapse is the term used to define the moment when the stream-of-consciousness of a dream phases outside of waking memory access, breaking concentration into incoherent rhythms. certainly, the brain can and will quickly adapt to how we focus our intentions. it is through intent that the interest in dreaming is facilitated.  through this interest in Dreamworld reality, the brain can be facilitated into a channel shift that will allow for short and long-term memories to be more easily accessed. this may be best facilitated by forgetting what has been learned in deference to that which is deeply known.

well, then, so we are dreaming?


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Invisiblewolfiewolfie
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26544135 - 03/19/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

In an attempt to answer your questions as I understand them, without straying too far into personal opinion, I will be using the Cambridge English Dictionary definitions of 'reality' and 'dreaming' when using such terms:

Reality - "The state of things as they are, rather than as they are imagined to be."

Dreaming - "A series of events or images that happen in your mind when you are sleeping."

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
while experiencing a dream it may seem just as real as 'reality'

a dream can fell like an illusion, but so can reality

from a neurological perspective, the dream is processed in a way very similar to waking reality




Neurologically speaking, dreaming actually involves a reversed sequence of perceptual events. Instead of bottom-up it is top-down (higher levels activating lower levels instead lower to higher). Activation of the motivational mechanisms in the brain would normally be directed toward goal-oriented actions. However, during sleep access to the motor system is blocked (by inactivation of the dorsolateral frontal convexity). As a result, activation moves backwards toward the perceptual areas. This is why the dreamer doesn't engage in motivated behaviours but imagines them. Furthermore, there is inactivation of the reflective system in the limbic brain which leads the dreamer to mistake the dream for reality.

It is true that reality can sometimes feel like a 'dream', however, being able to reflect upon such a notion should be evidence enough that it is not so. It is this reflection that allows you to carry out a backwards consistency check as redgreenvines explained earlier. You will often find when dreaming, you are unable to recall the steps leading up to your current situation or 'how you got here'.


Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
how is it that you can tell when you are awake and when you are asleep?




To put it simply, if you can question whether or not you are currently awake or asleep, chances are you are awake as the brain functions allowing you to do so would not be presently active if you were asleep.


Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
if you are "awake" and recognize the fact that you are awake, how does this differ from being "asleep" and recognizing that you are sleeping? 

is there any difference?




With the exception of lucid dreaming, it is often the case when one is asleep and recognises they are asleep, they almost immediately wake up. It could be that the realisation of being asleep occures somewhere in the moments after the waking up process has started, yet before all processes/functions are back online, however this is pure speculation on my behalf.

As to there being a difference between the two, you could think of it like this;

Being awake and realising you are awake is akin to sitting in a movie theatre watching a movie and realising you are sitting in a movie theatre watching a movie.

Being asleep and realising you are asleep is like when you are so engaged in the movie that nothing around you exists, the movie is all there is. Then you realise and almost immediately 'wake up' back into the movie theatre, just like waking up immediately after realising you are asleep.

I feel as though your questions would be better answered by Leonardo DiCaprio :wink:


--------------------


The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all.

My Drawings


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: wolfiewolfie] * 1
    #26544625 - 03/19/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

yay Leonardo!


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26544937 - 03/19/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
dreaming or perceiving of doing something is equivalent to actually doing it.




I’m just going to go ahead and catapult myself off this statement...



if something is dreamed, or remembered, or experienced, then the neurons that represent that thingness  *all* fire simultaneously just the same as when they did or do while initially experiencing.
this is a de facto fundamental principle for associative memory to exist and to function in a living brain.

As to whether they *all* fire or not, the clarity and intensity of memory recollection, or of perception being one thing or another is relative to how much of the same constellation of simultaneous nerve firing is going on. The more of the same set, the more of the same mental actuality emerges, and the less disputable the memory or perception is. How much similarity is required for some perception or even mistaken perception is a moot issue, and will depend on more complete and accurate high speed brain activity scans - right now the nmr type heat maps are relevant for slow transitions, much slower than 15 clear perceptions per second which is something we need to resolve this.




But there is a superposition state.


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Invisiblewolfiewolfie
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26544959 - 03/19/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
But there is a superposition state.




But there is also not a superposition state. Assuming a superposition can be in a superposition.


--------------------


The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all.

My Drawings


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: wolfiewolfie] * 1
    #26544984 - 03/19/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wolfiewolfie said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
But there is a superposition state.




But there is also not a superposition state. Assuming a superposition can be in a superposition.




Not a superposition state is a collapsed state.  It comes from a superposition state whether we can measure it or not.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26545046 - 03/19/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

what is the duration and physical size measurement for superposition?

I thought it was all related to sub-atomic localities

does the math indicate that the size and duration are only subatomic or can the effect be coordinated into our more macro level of experiencing?

is it likely?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26545060 - 03/19/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You’re definitely barking up the wrong tree in terms of technicality.  Idk, I assume it’s certainly sub atomic with limited duration being part of the difficulty of bringing it into macro realm with computers and stuff.  I think I read that they were in the process of doing testing on more macro levels.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26545080 - 03/19/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i wonder if I still am in Dreamworld, even when i think i have taken my thoughts with me to consensus reality?
does our presence in dreamworld persist even when we think we are elsewhere?
are some portion of my thoughts rendering themselves into Dreamworld when i recall a dream i had last night?
can the wake-conscious mind render thoughts into dreamworld reality from consensus reality?
if i build a castle in the sky right now, will I find it in Dreamworld?

a single drop of water contains the potential for every pattern of snowflake.  however, the dynamic information is only realized when the snowflake actually manifests, as the info from the molecular level of the drop flows into the crystalline form.  simple complexity manifesting everything.



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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26545103 - 03/19/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what is the duration and physical size measurement for superposition?

I thought it was all related to sub-atomic localities

does the math indicate that the size and duration are only subatomic or can the effect be coordinated into our more macro level of experiencing?

is it likely?




Possibility of High Performance Quantum Computation by Using Evanescent Photons in Living Systems

Quote:

Conclusion:
On the basis of the theorem that the evanescent photon is a superluminal particle, the possibility of high-performance computation in living systems has been studied. From the theoretical analysis, it is shown that the biological brain has the possibility to achieve large Quantum bits computation compared with the conventional processors. Thus it is considered that the human brain has the possibility to attain high efficient computation process compared with silicon processors.




well, anything is possible. 

Alice would say the impossible is possible.


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Invisiblewolfiewolfie
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26545578 - 03/19/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Its weird to think that in order for us to fall asleep, we first have to pretend we are sleeping.


--------------------


The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all.

My Drawings


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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: wolfiewolfie]
    #26545848 - 03/20/20 03:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

if you have a dream, and you don't remember it, does the dream exist?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26545902 - 03/20/20 05:56 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
You’re definitely barking up the wrong tree in terms of technicality.  Idk, I assume it’s certainly sub atomic with limited duration being part of the difficulty of bringing it into macro realm with computers and stuff.  I think I read that they were in the process of doing testing on more macro levels.



consider the poser consumption of modulating subatomic events at a macro level and then look at a sleeping child.
who is barking up the tree?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: reality vs. dreaming - which is more of an illusion? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26546557 - 03/20/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
You’re definitely barking up the wrong tree in terms of technicality.  Idk, I assume it’s certainly sub atomic with limited duration being part of the difficulty of bringing it into macro realm with computers and stuff.  I think I read that they were in the process of doing testing on more macro levels.



consider the poser consumption of modulating subatomic events at a macro level and then look at a sleeping child.
who is barking up the tree?




“Poser consumption” I like that.  But I’m not a real scientist man.  Not beholden to some rigorous set of principles restricting me from saying anything intuitive but without hard data.  The macro sleeping baby is made of micro sub atomic processes.  It’s reality is configured of that.  I don’t know much hardly anything of qm but a few good idiots guides to qm has told me this.  If you have a grasp of the sub atomic level I’d love to here so then arm chair interpretations can be made.  :smile:


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