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OfflineNorthernerM
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What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? * 3
    #26530259 - 03/12/20 04:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

In was checking in on Portugal today in the news seeing how decriminalization is going for them, swimmingly as one might expect. Then I saw the 2019 stats for US drug overdose deaths. It's literally more than half a million people dead in a single year! What the hell? This is an insane amount of healthy people to be getting knocked out.

What's going on my US cousins? How has this come to be?


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Northerner] * 3
    #26530261 - 03/12/20 04:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It’s gnarley my dude.  Fentanyl left and center even people who want heroin are forced to use even more unsafe alternatives from shady sources.  People will continue to use drugs.  This war is literally just so the DEA and cops can have pensions and health care


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Northerner] * 8
    #26530274 - 03/12/20 04:52 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

My understanding is that the number of opioid addicts initially came to be so big because of doctors overprescribing, and then when that started to be cracked down on more the illegal market filled the void with fentanyl derivatives that ultimately came from China. And also the Chinese government probably wants revenge on the West for the Opium Wars. "The Pharmacist" on Netflix is a pretty good documentary on the "pill mill" phenomenon and how flagrant some doctors' prescribing was. At least the later parts of the show.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi]
    #26530278 - 03/12/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi] * 4
    #26530305 - 03/12/20 05:21 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Pretty much, although first people switched to heroin when they started cracking down. The fentanyl analogues came later.


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OfflineHeph333
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Dark_Star] * 4
    #26530331 - 03/12/20 06:06 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The food supply in the US is utter rubbish. The Standard American Diet is a perfect storm recipe for chronic inflammation. The 10 most prevalent diseases all have inflammation at their root. Consequently, as people age, chronic pain sets in. Our medical system has their heads buried in the sand & only do one thing for it all: drugs. They treat symptoms rather than causes. And often the "cure" is more destructive (long term) than the disease. But we're all about instant gratification, so it works for a while.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Heph333] * 4
    #26530376 - 03/12/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I had to do a pretty large-scale research project on this a few years back.

The conclusion was that prescriptions played a very small role in the current epidemic. In the time where overdoses rose 400%, the rate of prescriptions rose only 6% or so.

Basically there's always been an "epidemic", but now that the product is exponentially more potent (due to fentanyl) there are far more overdoses, which can't be hidden like addiction can. The one factor that changed significantly throughout the period was the amount of autopsies detecting fentanyl, which rose steadily.

Pharmaceutical companies are corrupt as hell, but ultimately there's a certain type of person who really wants to self medicate or likes the feeling of getting high and will always chase a better one, regardless of what drug they start on. Many of the stories of the high school football star who hurt his leg then got addicted to his meds then turned to heroin leave out the fact that the same kid loved smoking and drinking and dipping and robotripping and doing coke and/ or whatever else was around long before their injury.

We're a sick society, can't blame it all on the docs and pharma


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: feevers] * 2
    #26530537 - 03/12/20 09:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
The conclusion was that prescriptions played a very small role in the current epidemic. In the time where overdoses rose 400%, the rate of prescriptions rose only 6% or so.





OK but does that really refute the theory that many addicts were created when overprescribing was most rampant, and that many later turned to the illicit market (and deadlier drugs) when things started to be tightened up? Because if that was the case, you would not expect a large increase in prescriptions at the same time as the large increase in fentanyl derivative overdoses. If anything you would expect a relatively small increase or even a decrease.



What I see from this graph is a steady rise in prescription ODs over the the 00s while heroin and "other" remain minor contributors to OD deaths, then by about 2010 prescription ODs are flattening off and subsequently even decrease a bit while heroin ODs begin to climb, then in 2013 "other" takes off and by 2016 has overtaken the other two categories.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Northerner] * 2
    #26530539 - 03/12/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Its a drug conspiracy i tell ya!

Drug companies over prescribing potent opiates and downplaying the OD potentials of them. Its really fucked up! I blame u Big Pharma!

:baseballfuck:


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OfflineDilsnique
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26530548 - 03/12/20 09:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Big Pharma in bed with Big Brother, and we are most valuable to Big Brother when we are sick and/or imprisoned.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Dilsnique]
    #26530581 - 03/12/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

its literally china doing opium warfare


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #26530582 - 03/12/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

legalization is the only path


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Dilsnique] * 2
    #26530598 - 03/12/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I'm in pain management as a nurse. I am seeing some things 1st hand. Also the president declaring and "opiod crisis" didn't help either. They are also making people get only a certain amount of opiods in a certain amount of days. This is helping people cut down actually that need to. At the same time  it's fucking over patients who need the meds to simply function. They will never get better, they will never stop taking these meds. They never go over, and are always compliant. It's basically the rich people don't want to pay for the poor peoples meds, as usual. Plus all those RC's, and the fact the dark net has provided basement dealers with the machines to make slick pharma grade appearing meds, blister packs even!:eek:


Quote:

Dilsnique said:
Big Pharma in bed with Big Brother, and we are most valuable to Big Brother when we are sick and/or imprisoned.



I also agree with this.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi] * 3
    #26530696 - 03/12/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

feevers said:
The conclusion was that prescriptions played a very small role in the current epidemic. In the time where overdoses rose 400%, the rate of prescriptions rose only 6% or so.





OK but does that really refute the theory that many addicts were created when overprescribing was most rampant, and that many later turned to the illicit market (and deadlier drugs) when things started to be tightened up? Because if that was the case, you would not expect a large increase in prescriptions at the same time as the large increase in fentanyl derivative overdoses. If anything you would expect a relatively small increase or even a decrease.



What I see from this graph is a steady rise in prescription ODs over the the 00s while heroin and "other" remain minor contributors to OD deaths, then by about 2010 prescription ODs are flattening off and subsequently even decrease a bit while heroin ODs begin to climb, then in 2013 "other" takes off and by 2016 has overtaken the other two categories.




Many people overdosing on prescription meds don't have a prescription. Many that did have prescriptions sought them out back when pill mills and candyman docs were rampant. Pills were easier to get than dope and could even be ordered from china by the case, theyre also societally a little less stigmatized, and sometimes even fully covered by insurance.

From the data IMO it really is the drug seeking behavior and the society/culture that created it, far more than the dealers or pharma companies


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OfflineDilsnique
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #26530706 - 03/12/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
From the data IMO it really is the drug seeking behavior and the society/culture that created it, far more than the dealers or pharma companies




I agree with this too.  People today need something to cope with or escape the turmoils and tensions of modern society.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: feevers] * 2
    #26530713 - 03/12/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I dont think you can blame the users tho.

its the fake fent. kids are dropping like flies off of fake pills from china.

really wouldnt be happening with the sacklers in business


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: cannabinated]
    #26530731 - 03/12/20 10:43 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Fentanyl derivatives SUCK anyway


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineC12ShroomMan
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi] * 1
    #26530766 - 03/12/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
My understanding is that the number of opioid addicts initially came to be so big because of doctors overprescribing, and then when that started to be cracked down on more the illegal market filled the void with fentanyl derivatives that ultimately came from China. And also the Chinese government probably wants revenge on the West for the Opium Wars. "The Pharmacist" on Netflix is a pretty good documentary on the "pill mill" phenomenon and how flagrant some doctors' prescribing was. At least the later parts of the show.




Now the people who need pain pills have a hard time getting them while all the abusing overdoses don't seem to have a problem. US best healthcare system. The only difference between dr and drug dealer is you have to pay 100+ just for the privilege to wait and see a doctor every month on top of the drug costs :smile:))


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: C12ShroomMan]
    #26530788 - 03/12/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Its probably an attempt to kill the underground drug economy and force ppl to buy weed and pills from the ruling class :mad2:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: feevers]
    #26530843 - 03/12/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Many people overdosing on prescription meds don't have a prescription. Many that did have prescriptions sought them out back when pill mills and candyman docs were rampant. Pills were easier to get than dope and could even be ordered from china by the case, theyre also societally a little less stigmatized, and sometimes even fully covered by insurance.

From the data IMO it really is the drug seeking behavior and the society/culture that created it, far more than the dealers or pharma companies




OK but why did prescription overdose deaths rise so much from 2000 to 2010? A change drug seeking behavior or the society/culture independent of any increase in the supply or marketing of these drugs?


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi] * 3
    #26530863 - 03/12/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Its was the doctors lobbyists and pharma reps and everyone related to the business.

People will always want to get high. They knew they could sell millions of pills to a town in kentucky cause there was no oversight.

Most of the deaths came from mixing. Or getting hooked on pills and then going to the street. Over prescription was the advertisement for heroin.

You should start with the people at the top when it comes to blame. Just cause millions of poor ladies resold some pills they got... its not really their fault. It's the system.  Mannnn. It was afghanistan.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: cannabinated] * 2
    #26530881 - 03/12/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

We need to grow more poppies is the problem
Then people would respect the morphine instead of treating it like an abundant resource resulting in abuse.  It’s also safer and ten times more expensive so it’ll never happen.  Aliens are god.  They gave us weed and mushrooms etc and then they’re watching us snort/shoot ourselves into a coma and they’re like :facepalm:


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi] * 3
    #26530890 - 03/12/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

feevers said:
Many people overdosing on prescription meds don't have a prescription. Many that did have prescriptions sought them out back when pill mills and candyman docs were rampant. Pills were easier to get than dope and could even be ordered from china by the case, theyre also societally a little less stigmatized, and sometimes even fully covered by insurance.

From the data IMO it really is the drug seeking behavior and the society/culture that created it, far more than the dealers or pharma companies




OK but why did prescription overdose deaths rise so much from 2000 to 2010? A change drug seeking behavior or the society/culture independent of any increase in the supply or marketing of these drugs?




The ease in ordering buckets of pills from china and the large scale pill mills in Florida and elsewhere provided most of the pills used to overdose throughout the country if I were to guess, with both of those things coming to rise in that time period. There's obviously no data on it, but most people weren't ODing on their script but from a batch that some mule hauled back from hitting a bunch of mills in a different state, or some dealer got shipped in from China. That's where LE was tracing most of the pills being dealt back to. These things got common/popular in that time period, and then cracked down on.

Sure big pharma knew the deal, just like tobacco and alcohol companies did and do. I wouldn't blame jack daniels for alcoholism or drunk driving deaths, I wouldn't blame a bartender for someone's cirrhosis, but I also wouldn't mind a little more precautions and awareness being promoted all around.  Ultimately I think everyone should have control over their own consciousness and allowed to buy whatever drug they want, again I think the real failing is in the culture, society and system. A little evidence-based education (not DARE) would at least be a start.

Fining big pharma millions of dollars and locking up some crooked execs makes me smile, sure, but it's not stopping people from ruining their lives with drugs. Prescriptions have been basically non-existent here for years and the rehabs have longer wait lists than ever and the users ranging younger and younger, regardless of what increased fentanyl awareness and narcan training/access are doing to the OD statistics.


Edited by feevers (03/12/20 12:21 PM)


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: feevers]
    #26530897 - 03/12/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The real issue is corporate wars and de-education


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Onlinegopher
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: cannabinated]
    #26530979 - 03/12/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think kratom is the answer, some people say it works better then their pain meds, I can get T3's whenever I want, but I dont because I rather do kratom


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For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

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OfflineO_Dweeds
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: gopher] * 2
    #26531059 - 03/12/20 01:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It's almost entirely being provided by China. Heroin/Morphine have been around a long time; the majority of deaths are due to completely synthetic powder being sold as H (fent analogues).
  It blew up when they ran with JWH and created all the variations so people could beat a cannabis drug test. JWH and some of these other completely synthetic, completely garbage, cannabinoids have killed (makes blood pressure sky rocket). When they realized what a gold mine it would be to analogue every drug that has an established market/demand in the US since they have such relaxed precursor attention that was it. The opioid analogues are the nastiest due to their strength being anywhere from 1-10,000 x as strong per mg to heroin and often for a much shorter,stronger high. All made for the tiniest fraction when compared to heroin.

  The WD is fucking horrific, but like the high, it is also very short compared to semi-synthetic such as heroin (5-7 days acute) or opium/pod/seed use where the 200+ alkaloids' acute WD lasts 30-45 days.

  Yes adults should certainly be held responsible for their choices. However when one is lied to when buying a powder, and even those who test may not see certain chemicals, many times there is no way of knowing. There is a very HARD lesson being taught right now; people need to show more respect for all.


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Oxygen. Water. Neil Young

Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Georgia I eat a peach for peace."
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Edited by O_Dweeds (03/12/20 01:42 PM)


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: O_Dweeds] * 2
    #26531102 - 03/12/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

What's happening is that when we were confronted with an epidemic of fent/opiate addiction we didn't listen to the Science And scientists. More specifically Trump didn't listen. With his personal crusade on opiates and benzos all we've seen is more people who used to be doing fine on their meds turning to heroin and ghost bars or alprazolam powder. I'd be on heroin right now if it weren't for someone giving me the pain pills I need. What's also very ironic is for someone like myself now a medication that I had been on since my white water rafting accident that allowed me to go to college,go on adventures, date and just live my life has all gone away all because the government is scaring our doctors and tying their hands on discretion for people they deem really need it.

When I used to get my muscle spasms I would be able to take Soma and it would not take away my pain but at least give me Mobility enough to power through it. Now because of the regulations I can't have anxiety medication AND my mobility or productivity. It's much more practical to not have suicidally bad mental illness then to be practically house bound. Just 4 years ago I didn't even ever imagine my own country would make me choose.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: O_Dweeds] * 2
    #26531112 - 03/12/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

The deaths are definitely multi-dimensional. As mentioned by cannibinated, one of the main reason for so many deaths was from mixing opiates together, especially with all the fent-laced illicit drugs going around. A lot of ODs happen because people underestimate the potency of a drug, such as illicit drugs laced with fent.

Personally, i think all the fent-lacing is a conspiracy to cause more ODs. But why would the illegal drug market want to kill its buyers? That I am not sure of.....


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OfflineO_Dweeds
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 3
    #26531127 - 03/12/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

The deaths are definitely multi-dimensional. As mentioned by cannibinated, one of the main reason for so many deaths was from mixing opiates together, especially with all the fent-laced illicit drugs going around. A lot of ODs happen because people underestimate the potency of a drug, such as illicit drugs laced with fent.

Personally, i think all the fent-lacing is a conspiracy to cause more ODs. But why would the illegal drug market want to kill its buyers? That I am not sure of.....




If done in the "right" amount of numbers (purely financial) OD makes many using and those new go "wow someone was willing to risk their life to do that, it must be good! & that must be really potent dope, I'll only have to use a fraction and I'll get higher!" Fucked logic but unfortunately that's how many on the street are sold.


--------------------
Oxygen. Water. Neil Young

Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Georgia I eat a peach for peace."
Gregg Allman


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26531139 - 03/12/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

The deaths are definitely multi-dimensional. As mentioned by cannibinated, one of the main reason for so many deaths was from mixing opiates together, especially with all the fent-laced illicit drugs going around. A lot of ODs happen because people underestimate the potency of a drug, such as illicit drugs laced with fent.

Personally, i think all the fent-lacing is a conspiracy to cause more ODs. But why would the illegal drug market want to kill its buyers? That I am not sure of.....



It’s someone using the illegal drug market to reach an end and that end is to fuck up, incapacitate and kill a giant portion of the American people.  It’s chemical warfare and I mean, just look where it’s coming from and that explains just about everything.

Were the OD’s mirrored in other countries or is the US alone in having this problem?


--------------------
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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Amanita86] * 1
    #26531151 - 03/12/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

According to this research study, US is the highest amoung 17 other high income countries: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190221083419.htm

The US actually has 3.5 times more deaths than those other 17 countries according to the study. The US seems to have the worst problem in the 1st world category. Not sure on 2nd/3rd world countries....


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OfflineO_Dweeds
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26531158 - 03/12/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
What's happening is that when we were confronted with an epidemic of fent/opiate addiction we didn't listen to the Science And scientists. More specifically Trump didn't listen. With his personal crusade on opiates and benzos all we've seen is more people who used to be doing fine on their meds turning to heroin and ghost bars or alprazolam powder. I'd be on heroin right now if it weren't for someone giving me the pain pills I need. What's also very ironic is for someone like myself now a medication that I had been on since my white water rafting accident that allowed me to go to college,go on adventures, date and just live my life has all gone away all because the government is scaring our doctors and tying their hands on discretion for people they deem really need it.

When I used to get my muscle spasms I would be able to take Soma and it would not take away my pain but at least give me Mobility enough to power through it. Now because of the regulations I can't have anxiety medication AND my mobility or productivity. It's much more practical to not have suicidally bad mental illness then to be practically house bound. Just 4 years ago I didn't even ever imagine my own country would make me choose.




  If you have a legitimate reason/need for pain medication and trouble with steady source why not try the poppy plant in it's natural state? Much stronger and lasts 24 hours. Plus the alkaloid content works to balance each other out. For example: the thebaine counteracts any of the tired/dopeiness from morphine resulting in a much more productive high. Also only use as needed, if you get a serious habit it is so much tougher than a heavy dope habit to kick.

  I do not believe anyone should be prescribed benzodiazepines for life; it's a sedated/hypnotic/siezure death sentence if you go even a couple days without. It is excellent short-term for someone trying to work though something, or to have for on hand for emergency use only, but never every single day. I used for 6-7 years straight, with a few of those as high as 7-8 mg, and coming off it almost killed me. Now I can see after only a few months the benzos ended up making my anxiety much worse on top of knowing if I ever stopped I could seize out. Being off benzos & getting back to utilizing mushrooms for the best tool in the world I am a much, much healthier person.


--------------------
Oxygen. Water. Neil Young

Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Georgia I eat a peach for peace."
Gregg Allman


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Onlinegopher
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: O_Dweeds]
    #26531161 - 03/12/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

they say that with phenibut you shouldnt take it 2 days in a row and not more then twice a week, I use that for all GABA drugs like benzos and alcohol, at least I try to, my sleeping drug is a benzo, and once in a while, ill find myself taking it like 4 times in a row before I catch myself


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

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OfflineO_Dweeds
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: gopher]
    #26531170 - 03/12/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The benzos, due to their sedative, hypnotic properties, really trick you with dosage (& everything else). There were many times I couldn't remember if I had taken a dose so I would "play it safe" and take more, often double-dosing.
  The part that gets me is the MAJORITY of doctors prescribing benzodiazepines do not tell people a fucking fraction of what this drug really is, how potent, & what WD will be like if you live through it.


--------------------
Oxygen. Water. Neil Young

Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Georgia I eat a peach for peace."
Gregg Allman


Edited by O_Dweeds (03/12/20 02:45 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #26531181 - 03/12/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Tobacco use kills 15X more people than opioid abuse, yet nobody seems upset about that fact.

People abuse drugs for many reasons. There's no need to blame any drug for people's behavior.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26531195 - 03/12/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It is illegal to make cigarettes illegal.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26531197 - 03/12/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Tobacco deaths are different cause its a slooooow killer by associated diesases, not instant OD deaths.

If tobacco caused ODs, then there would be some serious upheaval for sure!


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OfflineO_Dweeds
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26531214 - 03/12/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Tobacco use kills 15X more people than opioid abuse, yet nobody seems upset about that fact.

People abuse drugs for many reasons. There's no need to blame any drug for people's behavior.



Agree. I had a daily habit of over a gram in morphine content and I PUT money in my mom's purse.
Like a jew over tipping at a restaurant.


--------------------
Oxygen. Water. Neil Young

Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Georgia I eat a peach for peace."
Gregg Allman


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26531217 - 03/12/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I find that death is death - no matter the speed it comes.

And how many people die the first time they take an opioid? Abuse takes time.


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Amanita86]
    #26531219 - 03/12/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Big Pharma didn’t help but the world and especially the US will always have severe drug issues. There will always be people that ‘lose’, don’t get the life they want, the circumstances, the person, the money, the family, the fame and fortune, the American dream and whatever else. It’s a societal issue to begin with only exasperated by money hungry doctors and failed treatment programs. These people are searching for the fountain of youth, or they were born into the drug life, or they were introduced so young they didn’t know any better. They’re self medicating, but in  the end most addicts are just pissed about something in their life that they could grow a pair and move on about. Or they have a wire cut.


And as mentioned before I also believe all the fentanyl is some sort of conspiracy. It all arrived at once and now people are dropping like flies something going on


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #26531238 - 03/12/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Mexico is currently experiencing skyrocketing opioid abuse rates, so it's not only the US.


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26531244 - 03/12/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yes because there’s a shit ton of poor people in Mexico. Societal issues first..


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #26531248 - 03/12/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Being poor is a big factor in choosing to abuse drugs? I believe the motivations usually go much deeper.


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26531262 - 03/12/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

well yeah drugs like meth crack and heroin are used by the poor and ‘party drugs’ and prescription drugs by the rich, generally. But yes you’re right, if you are talking about opiates as a whole then every walk of life does use them.

My whole point was just pointing out the societal reasons people use drugs. I’m sure you remember the research where rats were given a choice between cocaine and water and chose cocaine until they died? Well there was another study done where the rats had a third choice, a giant ‘rat park’ with wheels and tubes and slides or whatever. They all chose that over the cocaine. People need shit to do


Edited by Led Zeppelin (03/12/20 03:28 PM)


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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi]
    #26531270 - 03/12/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
My understanding is that the number of opioid addicts initially came to be so big because of doctors overprescribing, and then when that started to be cracked down on more the illegal market filled the void with fentanyl derivatives that ultimately came from China. And also the Chinese government probably wants revenge on the West for the Opium Wars. "The Pharmacist" on Netflix is a pretty good documentary on the "pill mill" phenomenon and how flagrant some doctors' prescribing was. At least the later parts of the show.





That pharmacist was such a bitch ass snitch.

Sorry.

He’s the one that crusaded to shut down the pill Mills.  Then after they shut down. that’s when everyone started dying from fent    Especially in his town.


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26531347 - 03/12/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I find that death is death - no matter the speed it comes.

And how many people die the first time they take an opioid? Abuse takes time.




Im mean yeah, but its so unpredictable with cigs. Its like saying why do we drive cars when theirs so many accidental deaths from driving? Its because everyone doesnt die from driving around. It just depends on so many factors that can cause a car crash death. Its unpredictable.

Some people smoke their whole lives and never get cancer or serious lung problems. Like Asante, he quit after 20 years, still alive today. If a person abused opiates for 20 years, they might have OD'd before getting help. Theres more survivability to cigs than with opiates because its a slooooooow poisoning. ODs are just more destructive/non-recoverable and happen just from one session of taking too much. If u smoke too much cigs in one session, it wont kill you instantly.

That being said, cigs are terrible and i hate them just as much as all the opiates which cause premature deaths.

Cigs have an unclear cause-effect of death while ODing on opiates has a clear cause-effect, which is why its a bigger issue in my opinion.


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26531367 - 03/12/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I know one thing

If I get a bad case of corona I want to die doped up af


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi]
    #26531370 - 03/12/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:"The Pharmacist" on Netflix is a pretty good documentary on the "pill mill" phenomenon




:whathesaid:


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: psi] * 1
    #26531562 - 03/12/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Heph333 said:
The food supply in the US is utter rubbish. The Standard American Diet is a perfect storm recipe for chronic inflammation. The 10 most prevalent diseases all have inflammation at their root. Consequently, as people age, chronic pain sets in. Our medical system has their heads buried in the sand & only do one thing for it all: drugs. They treat symptoms rather than causes. And often the "cure" is more destructive (long term) than the disease. But we're all about instant gratification, so it works for a while.



Don't forget our jobs and lifestyles.

And now they're cutting off alot of people who actually need pain medication.


Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

feevers said:
Many people overdosing on prescription meds don't have a prescription. Many that did have prescriptions sought them out back when pill mills and candyman docs were rampant. Pills were easier to get than dope and could even be ordered from china by the case, theyre also societally a little less stigmatized, and sometimes even fully covered by insurance.

From the data IMO it really is the drug seeking behavior and the society/culture that created it, far more than the dealers or pharma companies




OK but why did prescription overdose deaths rise so much from 2000 to 2010? A change drug seeking behavior or the society/culture independent of any increase in the supply or marketing of these drugs?




Cultural disillusionment, lots of military folk getting hurt and getting ptsd, lots of really messed up things in the 2000's.
The war really gave this whole country a depression of sorts.


--------------------
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26531563 - 03/12/20 07:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Oh and media got shittier.


--------------------
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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Northerner]
    #26531573 - 03/12/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Then I saw the 2019 stats for US drug overdose deaths. It's literally more than half a million people dead in a single year!




When I read a post like this I begin to wonder what in the hell is going on with the rest of the world and their math skills.

Literally more than half a million people dead in a single year? :laugh2:


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Re: What the hell is going on in the US with opioids? [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26531690 - 03/12/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It's messed up, right?  I attribute it to the failed war on drugs, a healthcare system that in many states does not provide a safer, non-lethal alternative to opioids for pain management -e.g., cannabis -- and big pharma wanting to maintain the status quo.  Many people who become addicted started out with prescriptions... Something like 40% of addicts, if I remember correctly.  I wish we took an approach like Portugal's, but many people in this country still see drug abuse as a criminal issue, rather than being the medical issue that it is.


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