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Offlineholio1
intense

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 311
Loc: toronto son
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Casing depth and distribution
    #2652956 - 05/08/04 11:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Pretty soon I'm going to crumble and case, and since I only did 12 jars I figure my casings will pretty thin. This is my first grow, so I don't have first hand experience with what works and what doesn't in the location I am using. I bought tupperware containers (5"x5"x~2") and planned on doing 4 casings with 1" substrate, 1/4" verm top layer because thats what the FAQ had as a minimum, and my entire fruiting chamber is only around 9-10" tall (and there will be 1/2-1" perlite at the bottom, unless you think this is completely unnecessary with casings). Now I am not really sure if I should actually make them deeper, or if 12 jars will even fit in 4 casings at that thickness.

Anyways here are my questions:
1. Doing 1/2 pints, how many jars do you put in a tupperware (5"x5")? I bought the non-deep kind, but if I have to I'll get the taller ones.

2. Will I end up with really short fruits if my substrate is that short? I don't want to be growing monsters because there will only be 6-7" of headroom from the top of the casings, but I don't want mini 1"ers either.

3. Should I include perlite in this at all? If so, should it be under the tupperwares or as a bottom layer inside the casings?

4. One last question, should I poke holes in the bottoms of the tupperwares so I can drain them after dunking, or is it better to completely remove the substrate layer and dunk it in a separate container?

Thanks for your help, you guys are great


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InvisibleSemilanceata
No god, no boss

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 841
Loc: República Federal Íbera
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2654146 - 05/08/04 07:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

1. 2-3
2. Maybe not as short as 1", but you won?t get some 25 cm shrooms neither.
3. If you wish. Perlite with some water/H2O2 or whatever, at the bottom of the fruiting chamber.
4. No need to dunk casings, IMO.


--------------------
Sr_Setahongo


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InvisibleMykro_Guy
Myco Student
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 317
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2654776 - 05/08/04 10:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

no need to dunk just pick off old pins and shit and mist like hell


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2654874 - 05/08/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Try to make sure and get the distribution of your casing layer as even as possible to ensure a nice even pinset. Dont forget to lightly patch fresh sterile casing material over the first myc to bust through the casing layer. Your description of what you are doing sounds good and you shouldnt have any trouble with shrooms bustin the top off of your chamber ,but they wont be really small either,I dont think. Since you said your chamber was pretty compact I doubt you will need anything,other than the casing itself,to boost humidity levels. Good Luck!

MYKEY


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Offlinedaywalker
Do you dream in color?

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 783
Loc: in my skin
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2655010 - 05/09/04 12:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Try a cheese grater on the cakes. You'll get a nice workable substrate that's easy to level.

You can get the RH up by just the casings themselves and a misting of the terrarium walls every now and then. If there is water on the walls, the RH is up there. I have found perlite to be totally unnecessary.

GL!



--------------------
"I suggest we ... learn to love our ... selves before it ... becomes illegal."


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Offlineholio1
intense

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 311
Loc: toronto son
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: daywalker]
    #2656180 - 05/09/04 10:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know if grating the cakes up would be good, because then it would probably take a while to recolonize if everything is all broken up?
Your grow there looks pretty good, I believe thats the same size container as I have. How deep was your substrate/casing layer? What mix did you use for casing? Dry yield?

Also, how much of a difference does using coir in the casing layer make? I'm only using BRF and this is my first grow so I'm not expecting any pro results, but I would like to be as successful as possible. Seems most everyone uses verm and coir, but I don't want to worry about Ph. I thought the casing layer didn't provide nutrients, so I don't really see the advantage with coir.
Sorry if this question is in the teks, but I wanted to ask daywalker those other questions anyways

Thanks


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2656248 - 05/09/04 11:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The myc will recover very fast when it is cheese grated. This will make a nice,even layer for you to case and it will indeed help to get a good pinset when everything is nice and even. Since you arent spawning into poo or anything, you dont have to wait for anything but the grated myc to mend itself back together ,which will only take a few days at the most. If you do decide to try spawning in the future the cheese grater is awesome due to the fact that it breaks it up very well and when it gets mixid into the bulk substrate it will colonize more rapidly.

IMO you should go with a straight verm casing around a quarter of and inch thick in your case. If you want to use a verm peat mix you can use Jiffy Mix. It has the ingredients already mixed,including a ph buffer to avoid increasing acidity in the casing layer. Just make sure it is the plain Jiffy and not one with any fertilizer added into it.

Good Luck
MYKEY


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Offlineredone
Errbody gettin'tRipsy
Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Right here^^^see, that's ...
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2656410 - 05/09/04 12:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Holio,
According to Stamets' studies, the casing layer isn't required by any means, BUT it does help increase yields. The reasons for that you ask?

It helps hold moisture for the myc

It helps the CO2 build-up so the myc will have a better indication of when to start the fruiting process. . . . when it reaches the top of the casing and gets O2.

Again, casings aren't req'd but they are proven by both researd and experience to yield more and better fruitbodies. With mushrooms, it's all about moisture. That's why dunked & rolled and double-end CASED cakes tend to do better too.


--------------------
"I'm just lying to try and get attention again."


The events in question are not to my recollection.


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InvisibleButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2656433 - 05/09/04 12:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Using a cheese grater works super!You get a nice even pinset and it networks together nicely.It is how I do my casings when I use PF cakes.Works great,especially if you are using PF cakes for spawn.More surface area,contact points,hence faster recolonization.It will renetwork fast.
Listen to Mykey he knows his stuff.


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Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.


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Offlineholio1
intense

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 311
Loc: toronto son
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: Mykey]
    #2657580 - 05/09/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

alright I'm going to grate it and use 1-2 inch substrate depending how things work out, and then 1:4 for the verm casing.

Would it work if I grated the cakes up and put them in the tupperware without the vermiculite, and then filled the tupperwares with water and covered (and wrapped in something to keep out light) and put in the fridge for 12 - 24 hours? And then just tipping them to drain water and then casing with wet verm on top?


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OfflineNoG
journeyman

Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 98
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2657877 - 05/09/04 08:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

:oogle: what exactly is going to hold the water your dunking your grated mycelia into. Sounds like your thinking to much just follow the advice.


Later NoG


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2657995 - 05/09/04 08:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Your enthusiasm is comendable holio,but grating and then dunking is a bad idea IMO. Since you are going to make casings you really dont need the extra moisture. The only reason I would consider dunking,in your case, is if the cakes took particularly long to fully colonize and they are very dehydrated. In which case I would dunk in 1/10 h2o2/bottled water for 24hrs in the fridge. Do this BEFORE you grate the cakes. I think that grating and then dunking could only cause problems with too much moisture and may increase contams,not to mention slow the mending process. The jury is still out on the degree at which cold shocking effects the onset of pinning in cubensis,but it wont hurt anything so there isnt any reason not to when dunking the cakes. You dont have to worry about the little bit of light they will get in the fridge when you open and close the door.

Best of Luck to Ya!
MYKEY

****Hey ButterNut,thanks for the compliment! It means a lot coming from a knowledgeable member like yourself. I enjoy reading your post always and am reminded,as I look at your signature,that I need to get my lazy ass out and plant my garden! mmmmmmm -squash


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Offlineholio1
intense

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 311
Loc: toronto son
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: Mykey]
    #2660585 - 05/10/04 07:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Alright, thanks.
The only reason I was wondering if I should dunk after chopping is that normally people cold shock once they have made the casings, but in this case it will be before.
I want to dunk because the cakes will be incubating for around 2.5-4 weeks by the time they are fully colonized, because the temps are only around 75-80.
Also, there will only be a small temp drop from incubating to fruiting, as my friend will just be turning his thermostat down a bit. He has it cranked right now to the highest possible where his room is still livable. So its just convenient to dunk while cold shocking.

How long should I let the cakes dry out after dunking before grating and casing? Or should I just case right after dunking?

Thanks a lot man

-daywalker still wondering about your grow if you are reading this thread


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2660737 - 05/10/04 08:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

  What you are doing sounds just fine. The cakes are really dense when fully colonized so they will only absorb so much water so you dont have to worry about letting them dry,just use a clean paper towel in a clean hand to carefully dab off the excess moisture on the outside of the cake and grate it on up! Good Luck!! :thumbup:

Here is a pic of a 4" square tupperware bowl that a friend of mine done with one 1/2pint pf cake dunked,grated and cased with straight verm. This will give you an idea of what to expect since you plan on doing the same thing!



MYKEY


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InvisibleButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: Mykey]
    #2660812 - 05/10/04 08:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

  :thumbup:Right on!Thanx man.


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Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.


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Offlineholio1
intense

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 311
Loc: toronto son
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: Mykey]
    #2661122 - 05/10/04 09:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

cool, what were the yields off that grow?


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Casing depth and distribution [Re: holio1]
    #2661200 - 05/10/04 09:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Those pics were taken yesterday so I'll have to let you know on that one! I'll post on this thread when he finishes. Should be done in a week or so. By the way they are Pink Buffalo's and I counted like 130 pins on that thing and no aborts so far! Should be pretty good yield ,but he isnt expecting any giants due to the fact that is such small casing.(only about 1 inch deep total.) He is going to send me some pics of the rest of the grow which includes a variety of cakes,cased cakes,and horse poo casings. I'll try to post those on the grow log and pics forum soon.

MYKEY


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