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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibletrvptamine
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26524109 - 03/08/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
No maybe about it...it'd be almost impossible to die from n02 with balloons without another drug involved. And as you said, for two people at once? No way.

I imagine they were using the n02 as a booster and fucking around with some RC...even then for them both to die, something went wrong such as miscalculated dosages or misidentified drugs.

Unless they had a giant tank of it and left the valve open in a relatively airtight room as they fell asleep..even then I don't know enough about kinetic theory or the affects of n02 in the atmosphere to be sure thats even a possibility.



They could have been in a not very well ventilated area. I think most of the deaths of people reported from nitrous were people who were filling trash bags with the stuff in their car. Suffocation can definitely still happen with nitrous just like with any gas that isnt fresh air.

Who knows though. Its super rare from what I understand.


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Offlineviraldrome
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26525061 - 03/09/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
No maybe about it...it'd be almost impossible to die from n02 with balloons without another drug involved. And as you said, for two people at once? No way.

I imagine they were using the n02 as a booster and fucking around with some RC...even then for them both to die, something went wrong such as miscalculated dosages or misidentified drugs.

Unless they had a giant tank of it and left the valve open in a relatively airtight room as they fell asleep..even then I don't know enough about kinetic theory or the affects of n02 in the atmosphere to be sure thats even a possibility.





I believe it would dissipate. I don't think you can knock out people by opening a tank in a room, dentists have left tanks open accidentally lots of times and you never here about them ending up on the floor.

Short of a b12 deficiency, which two people both won't have, the only way to die from nitrous is oxygen deprivation, but if they were using balloons that's pretty much impossible. 

I'm guessing combo too


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Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: viraldrome]
    #26525133 - 03/09/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I believe it would dissipate. I don't think you can knock out people by opening a tank in a room, dentists have left tanks open accidentally lots of times and you never here about them ending up on the flo




Of course it would dissipate, if it had the chance, dentists don't often leave tanks opens in closed bedrooms and then lie down and go to sleep.

Air is about 21% oxygen, you need at least 19% to breathe, it wouldn't need to displace all of the oxygen.

Like I said, I don't know a lot about gas kinetics but considering N02 is heavier than oxygen I really don't see why it wouldn't be possible(not likely, and it would probably require a large tank) for enough oxygen to be displaced at a low height in a room with little air exchange for it to have an effect.

---------------

Again, I don't think this is what happened...there is nothing here to support the idea. I'm not even sure it's possible at all, and if it has ever happened it is I am sure it's extremely rare and requires uncommon conditions....but, "impossible" and "can't" are strong words(not that you used them viraldrome, but other people did) that should not be used in place of implausible, unlikely, or without a qualifier.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/09/20 08:15 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26525645 - 03/09/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

If you put a bag over your head it wouldn't take very much flow of gas for you to accidentally suffocate yourself from oxygen deprivation. If it was slow enough you wouldn't notice it happening and wouldn't do or be able to do anything about it.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26525677 - 03/09/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You can’t buy a tank of nitrous in Russia. But you can buy every other drug with little effort, without ever meeting a dealer (dead drops) or having any connections (clearnet drug markets are advertised all over Moscow via graffiti and social media).

My point is, why get high on nitrous at all? It’s soooooo uncommon over there. More people shoot crocodile than do whip its. And that’s why this is all over the news...makes 0 sense.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: feldman114]
    #26525723 - 03/09/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

...that is absolutely not why this is in the news, it does add a bit of intrigue for druggies but normal people aren't going to stop and ask how he got nitrous or wonder how he managed to kill himself with it. He's a chess champion(chess is a big deal there) and Ukrainian, the political aspect is a far bigger draw than the nitrous. And you think people can't get nitrous in Moscow? Lol.

Quote:

If you put a bag over your head it wouldn't take very much flow of gas for you to accidentally suffocate yourself from oxygen deprivation. If it was slow enough you wouldn't notice it happening and wouldn't do or be able to do anything about it.




If you put a bag over your head it wouldn't take any nitrous at all to kill you.

In this hypothetical scenario you are describing above...why are they keeping a bag over their head at all? Since apparently the n02 flow is so low that they would not notice it...are they just chilling, watching tv, with bags over their heads? Or maybe playing a game of chess with bags over their heads?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit] * 1
    #26525733 - 03/09/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Idk kids fucking choke themselves with belts to get high do it wrong and die. Not that surprising to me that some kids did something retarded


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26525743 - 03/09/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Idk kids fucking choke themselves with belts to get high do it wrong and die. Not that surprising to me that some kids did something retarded




Not just random kids but a chess master... Some teens being stupid and accidentally suffocating wouldn't be unheard of, but this dude was 27 and a chess master. Seems smart enough to know not to put a plastic bag over his head.

Assuming this was just an accident other drugs must have been involved or it seems highly suspect. Maybe they were drunk and huffing out of bags and thought putting bags over there heads was a good idea? Still seems pretty suspicious.


--------------------
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You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26525803 - 03/09/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Idk kids fucking choke themselves with belts to get high do it wrong and die. Not that surprising to me that some kids did something retarded




That happens in a relative instant...and it generally happens when they tie the belt to something above them.

It doesn't take a chess master to know putting a plastic bag over your head can be dangerous...and in your hypothetical you talk about it happening "without notice", as if they were just hanging out with bags on their head. Your body sure as fuck notices when it runs low on oxygen, and you will do just about anything to correct it.

People generally die with bags over their head from suicide, or because they passed out too fast to do anything about it, not too slow.

----------------

If it were just one person, that would be one thing...but two? Two people "accidentally" died with bags over their heads at the same time? Get real.

And the article talks about finding balloons, it doesn't say anything about finding tank(s).


Edited by Holybullshit (03/09/20 05:03 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit] * 1
    #26525834 - 03/09/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Deprivation of oxygen in the presence of carbon dioxide creates panic and a sense of suffocation (the hypercapnic alarm response), and struggling even when unconscious, whereas anoxia in the presence of an inert gas, like nitrogen, helium or argon, does not




The nitrous flushes out co2 and o2 and causes no alarm in humans. You don't notice you're suffocating and gradually lose consciousness. You'd basically get too dumb to notice.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26525836 - 03/09/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

This is why the "exit bag" works. Creates zero panic because suffocating from inert gas makes you body notice nothing.


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Offlinedownlowfunk
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26526814 - 03/10/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

When some one gets beaten they get mad so mad theyll kill.  Especially a chess match. someones technique could drive an opponent to murder.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: downlowfunk]
    #26527687 - 03/10/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Not if done quickly Bodhistta, thats the whole point, you can't really just go from atmospheric air/oxygen to straight nitrous and not notice ...were they chilling for 30-45 with bags over their heads for no purpose?

Are you asserting that they committed suicide? Because that is totally reasonable.

But if you are asserting that the chess champion AND another person BOTH accidentally died, at the same time, because they kept bags over their head(for apparently no reason at all) for an extended amount of time without realizing it was dangerous....get real.


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OfflineButterWeasels
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26528300 - 03/10/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

yea this seems really sketchy, ive done $10,000+ worth of nitrous and it never made me pass out or black out or give me any negative long-term effects, possibly some vitamin B12 deficiency only temporarily and my hands were in more pain than usual for a bit possibly from nerve damage related to the n20 and lack of B12 but that went away.

This looks like a murder-suicide cover-up, as others have said, how did both of them die, they would have had to die at the same time, the other one would've tried to revive the one who OD'd, the only possible way is if they had a tank with the valve left open in an enclosed space, as someone else has stated.

"Poisoned" by laughing gas, yea that just isn't possible. The only way to die from nitrous oxide is by lack of oxygen. The fact that this happened in Russia doesn't surprise me, there are a ton of people trained to murder and make it look either natural or like suicide. The names weren't released? Possibly to hide the fact that he had enemies, either in Ukraine or in Russia, possibly Ukraine since they are still salty about the recent civil war and Russia's hand in helping the rebels in Donetsk and Luhansk. My bet is pro-national Ukrainians pulled a hit job on him for representing Russia, that or there is more to this story we aren't being told.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: ButterWeasels]
    #26528610 - 03/11/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It might have just been a "normal" double suicide...dude had been receiving a lot of grief for playing for Russia, could have pushed him over the edge. For all we know was of the "unstable genius" type...and I generally don't trust men who are almost 30 and date teenagers, its a red flag that they are carrying some real psychological baggage whether it be narcissism/misogyny/toxic masculinity/insecurity/etc. etc.

I know its more "acceptable" over there, but its just because the fucked up reasons(and there are oh so many) men do that is more common/acceptable, not because there is anything healthier about those relationships.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26528738 - 03/11/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Over there?
There’s a 20-year old under the arm of every other old-fart American millionaire...


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: feldman114]
    #26529437 - 03/11/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Over there?
There’s a 20-year old under the arm of every other old-fart American millionaire...




:whathesaid:

Shit look at the marriage ages many states have and some still have. It's becoming much less accepted but still super common in many places.

How many young women are looking for older sugar daddies and shit now as well. Seems like it's become more common if anything.

You don't even need to be a millionaire, I've met some older growers doing pretty well who'd date 20 year olds that were 30~ years younger then them :lol:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #26529834 - 03/11/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It wasn't a commentary on the situation here, I know its common but we at least stop to think about it. The feminist movement never happened in the USSR/Russia, misogyny and the objectification of women is standard operating procedure...it's not just thats its common, most people don't even think there is anything wrong with it.

And for the record...there is a big difference between a girl in her early 20's and teenagers. There's also a big difference between casually dating someone much younger than you, and having a "serious" relationship with them and its often about the level of control/influence you can exert over them. Not that I am approving of any of the above...its just different and tells you different things about the man involved.


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InvisibleBarnaby
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26530163 - 03/12/20 01:14 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Common Sense.  :thumbup:


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Barnaby]
    #26530353 - 03/12/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Shows how much you know.
The USSR was way ahead of the US on gender equality. We only caught up after the USSR was dissolved. Women were getting equal pay in management over there when the only jobs American women had were Secretary, Teacher or Housewife.

Quote:

The Constitution of the USSR guaranteed equality for women - "Women in the USSR are accorded equal rights with men in all spheres of economic, state, cultural, social, and political life." (Article 122).



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia#Soviet_era:_feminist_reforms


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