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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: saved7]
    #26565609 - 03/29/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

saved7 said:
Regarding a belief in ultimate causes, your materialist religion has no better explanation for natural process.  Take electromagnetic charge, or gravity, for example.  What ultimately causes these things to be?

You cross out the word 'god' and write in other terms like 'inherent property' or 'phenomenon' and hope nobody notices it's the same underlying superstition in different packaging.




Science does offer explanations of what is occurring in the nature. You're attempting to find the cause of nature, that puts the burden of proof on you for that assertion. Science makes no claim for the cause of the natural world existing in the first place. So you analogy is fallacious reasoning, try again.




I was referring to your materialist ideology, not science.




Stop assuming what people believe, it's a disingenuous form of debate.


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Offlinesaved7
follower
Registered: 06/10/19
Posts: 203
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: qman]
    #26566604 - 03/30/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

saved7 said:
Regarding a belief in ultimate causes, your materialist religion has no better explanation for natural process.  Take electromagnetic charge, or gravity, for example.  What ultimately causes these things to be?

You cross out the word 'god' and write in other terms like 'inherent property' or 'phenomenon' and hope nobody notices it's the same underlying superstition in different packaging.




Science does offer explanations of what is occurring in the nature. You're attempting to find the cause of nature, that puts the burden of proof on you for that assertion. Science makes no claim for the cause of the natural world existing in the first place. So you analogy is fallacious reasoning, try again.




I was referring to your materialist ideology, not science.




Stop assuming what people believe, it's a disingenuous form of debate.




Materialists get quite defensive when the scientific facade is removed and their underlying ideology is brought into the light.  Just something I've noticed over the years.

It's usually a dead giveaway when someone portrays Science (capital S) with the language of a monolithic arbitrating entity.  (e.g. "Science says..."  "I believe in Science..." , etc.)


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
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Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
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Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: saved7]
    #26566956 - 03/30/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
It's usually a dead giveaway when someone portrays Science (capital S) with the language of a monolithic arbitrating entity.  (e.g. "Science says..."  "I believe in Science..." , etc.)




Or when they do the same with the Bible?


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleShr00mEater
Strange
Male

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: Forrester]
    #26567022 - 03/30/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Wow. I thought this thing was off topic on page two...

Look at us now, everyone swinging for the left field!


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: Forrester]
    #26567029 - 03/30/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

one is the belief in something physical

the other a belief in Something non-physical.

people believe in gravity enough that their feet stay attached to the ground - yet we know our understanding of it is incomplete. 

you don't see people just floating off into space everyday because they overcome their belief in gravity!!!


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26567285 - 03/30/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
one is the belief in something physical

the other a belief in Something non-physical.

people believe in gravity enough that their feet stay attached to the ground - yet we know our understanding of it is incomplete. 

you don't see people just floating off into space everyday because they overcome their belief in gravity!!!




The physical world can be demonstrated, the non-physical world is nothing more than fantasy unless it can be demonstrated.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: qman]
    #26567402 - 03/30/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

what do placebo effects demonstrate?


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InvisibleShr00mEater
Strange
Male

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: qman]
    #26567415 - 03/30/20 02:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Dreams are non-physical. So are thoughts.

I think it could be hard to demonstrate either have a “reality” in the physical. Maybe a physical cause, but, a physical property? I dunno.

But, still, it appears that dreams and thoughts do exist in some way.


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Offlinesaved7
follower
Registered: 06/10/19
Posts: 203
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: qman]
    #26568547 - 03/31/20 07:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The physical world can be demonstrated, the non-physical world is nothing more than fantasy unless it can be demonstrated.




Your position is self-refuting.

The physical world is bound by non-physical law.  We sometimes refer to these as 'inherent properties' of nature.  For example, Gravity is said to be natural phenomenon produced by an inherent property of matter in the universe.

That inherent property is the directing force of nature, yet is itself nowhere located in the realm of the physical.  Even if we resolved the natural mechanics even further, it's just kicking the can down the road and we're ultimately left with the same scenario.

So it is self-evident that the physical world exists and persists by the order and direction of some non-physical authority.

Unfortunately, the materialist is so boxed in by his own contrived ideology, that he must deny this basic God-given reasoning.  He willingly cuts himself off from truth, even though it is continually staring him in the face.



For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...

- Romans 1:20-22


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
Re: What if the gospels of Jesus Christ were proven true to you? [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26568781 - 03/31/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

saved7 said:
Quote:

qman said:
The physical world can be demonstrated, the non-physical world is nothing more than fantasy unless it can be demonstrated.




Your position is self-refuting.

The physical world is bound by non-physical law.  We sometimes refer to these as 'inherent properties' of nature.  For example, Gravity is said to be natural phenomenon produced by an inherent property of matter in the universe.

That inherent property is the directing force of nature, yet is itself nowhere located in the realm of the physical.  Even if we resolved the natural mechanics even further, it's just kicking the can down the road and we're ultimately left with the same scenario.

So it is self-evident that the physical world exists and persists by the order and direction of some non-physical authority.

Unfortunately, the materialist is so boxed in by his own contrived ideology, that he must deny this basic God-given reasoning.  He willingly cuts himself off from truth, even though it is continually staring him in the face.



For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...

- Romans 1:20-22




"The physical world is bound by non-physical law"

Another baseless assertion, evidence??  Please demonstrate it.

"So it is self-evident that the physical world exists and persists by the order and direction of some non-physical authority"

If that was the case, there would be plenty of evidence for that claim, but it's not there. :shrug:  Gravity isn't evidence for god.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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