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OfflineMorbility
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Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub
    #26500099 - 02/23/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

This is my 3rd attempt at a bulk run of cubes. Lots of historical trial & error working on sanitary and sterile technique, getting things ready to spawn, etc. I haven't had a successful run ever, and would appreciate any help from the community in getting this tub to produce something if it's not too far gone. I recognize that this batch is not in ideal shape, possibly (likely) has some contamination, and isn't ever going to look pretty. To be honest, I just want to see something positive happen here to prove to myself that I can do this, even if I only get a single fruit out of the damned thing.

I've maintained an offline log of the entire run with tons of pics and notes for my own reference as I learn, but I'll spare anyone reading this the exhaustive record of this attempt. If additional info on what I've done leading up to now would be helpful in guiding me, I'm happy provide more info.

Spawn: ~5 quarts horse feed oats. PC'ed at ~18 PSI for 4 hours because triple-washed isn't available here and what's available is pretty low quality.

Substrate: ~10 quarts straight coir. I deviated from Bod's tek here slightly, since I only had loose coir available instead of bricks. Coir was measured by volume, purposely over-hydrated, and then (painfully) wrung out by hand to ensure field capacity and measure a reference baseline for the future. Pasteurized in an insulated Home Despot bucket for 24 hours.

Environment: The house fluctuates from 66F-72F, and 15%-20% RH according to the cheap-ass thermometer/hygrometer I keep in the lab. Heat is electric baseboard, only running on the 1st floor. Lab is on the 2nd floor. No fans, heaters, etc. running in the lab.

Spawn Day (directly into fruiting conditions) was on February 9th, 2020, so this post marks day 14 of the run.

So far I've tried the following things to save the tub:
  • Day 2 - Removed the CFL from the lid and aimed it off-center at the wall behind the tub instead to reduce heating and drying of the surface (it gets rather warm.)
  • Day 7 - Began misting areas that were noticeably drier.
  • Day 10 - Seeing possible bruising and metabolites. Flipped lid gasket-side down after misting to trap moisture and re-hydrate.
  • Day 13 - Flipped lid to gasket-side up for a few hours to supply FAE, then returned it to gasket-side down.
  • Day 14 - Split the difference in lid positions by propping it up with some mini binder clips in the gasket-side down position. This will hopefully supply some FAE, but not dry the surface out as quickly since the gaps are smaller than when the lid is gasket-side up.


Threads and Teks I've Followed Getting Here:


Pics are Better than Words:

Spawn Day - Depth


Spawn Day - Establishing Shot


Day 10 - Dryness/Bruising


Day 11 - Post-Misting


Day 14 - FAE Adjustment (Post-Misting)


Day 14 - Post-Misting and Tub Rotated 180 Deg.


If you made it this far down my post, thank you for taking the time to read. Any and all input is appreciated.


Edited by Morbility (02/25/20 06:32 AM)


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26500207 - 02/23/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I think you have a crap shoot. But more than likely you just need a little patience. Looks like it's not ready to fruit. Let that tub sit unfycked with for 7 days.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26500208 - 02/23/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I think you have a crap shoot. But more than likely you just need a little patience. Looks like it's not ready to fruit. Let that tub sit unfycked with for 7 days.i
  I see potential nots.


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OfflineMushkingMulah360
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility] * 1
    #26500647 - 02/23/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Def don’t need that light like that it’s fine in ceiling socket or way higher than it is!


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: MushkingMulah360]
    #26501906 - 02/24/20 04:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

***Edit***
No ceiling fixtures in the lab, so did the best I could and clamped the light to the top of a closet door about 6 feet away from the tub and angled it accordingly. Been running it on a 12/12 cycle as per every guide I've ever seen. Maybe not just the heat of the lamp but UV output possibly causing some trouble when sitting so close? Just a thought. Really appreciate the suggestions so far guys, I'll continue posting my progress whichever way it goes and try to keep my anxiety in check!
******

Update:

Dabbed up some pooling water with a paper towel yesterday shortly after making the first post. Pulled the binder clips last night and left the lid in the gasket-down position. My thinking is that FAE isn't helping at all at right now, and I need to limit more loss of moisture. Tub is still weighty, substrate still seems moist, but can't get a good pic through the side of the tub to show color/moisture below the surface.

Surface looked okay this morning, still some water beads, but was drier than a popcorn fart when I got home this evening. Noticed some small cracks toward center-left, though these might have been there yesterday. Misted the fuck out of the surface letting gravity pull the water down, then put the lid back on gasket-down.

@Sockadin: Trying not to fuck with it too much, only intervened today because it looked like it was dying of thirst and I got nervous. Should've taken a before pic. I agree that there could be some knots in there, tough to tell with my inexperienced eyes, even up close.

@MushkingMulah360: I pulled the light off the lid on day 2 because it was turning the tub into a slow cooker. Reference pic of the way it's been since is below.

Day 15 - Current Setup


Day 15 - Post-Misting


Edited by Morbility (02/24/20 07:59 PM)


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility] * 1
    #26502114 - 02/24/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

If the tub is heavy it's not dying of thirst. You have alot of substrate there.it will pin when it's ready. And I agree with above. The light is drying out your surface and probably also your temps. Raise the light up to the ceiling where it should be.

Lastly don't pool up water off your sub. It will regulate that with proper FAE through the lid. Substrate creates heat causes moisture to rise and then cool air is pulled in causing evaporation of the surface. It's a cycle you keep interupting them more you mess with it trying to "Dial in your tub"


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Sockadin]
    #26503451 - 02/25/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Moved the light last night (see edit on previous post). Tub appears to be in much better shape today. No fuckery outside of a quick lift of the lid to snap my overhead pics. Seems like some things are happening in the last two images, hard to say since side shots through the plastic always come out low res. Kinda neat looking regardless.

Day 16 AM - Light Moved


Day 16 AM - Surface (Flash/No Flash)


Day 16 PM - Surface (Flash/No Flash)


Day 16 PM - Alien Landscape


Edited by Morbility (02/25/20 04:03 PM)


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26505274 - 02/26/20 05:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Day 17 - No major changes in appearance. Tub has visible condensation again along the walls and the the lid--I understand that plastic doesn't grow, but at least it provides some visual reassurance of moisture/life still present to a novice like myself. Colonized areas looking dry in most areas, but looks can be deceiving I suppose. Also realized the two alien pics I took yesterday are probably just coir fibers sticking up that got overtaken, definitely not precursors to fruiting. RH on the cheap hygrometer has almost doubled from 15% to 27% since moving the light, so it was definitely causing problems in its previous position. Hoping I didn't irradiate the mycelia too much and a flush is still possible. I'm still open to any thoughts or suggestions from the community.


Edited by Morbility (02/26/20 05:50 PM)


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26505284 - 02/26/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I think you might do a light casing layer now that the ceiling cooker is away from it. It might add some growth and moisture and cover those grains, then introduce more fresh air.


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Sockadin]
    #26505308 - 02/26/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Copy that. I'd been looking at older threads using wax paper or bubble wrap a while ago out of curiosity for controlling micro climate at the surface, but consensus seems to be it's a crutch/hack and coir is king (at least for cubes). I'll pasteurize a quart of what I've been using and see how that goes. Thanks!


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26507676 - 02/28/20 06:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Day 18 - Prepped 2 quarts by volume of coir to the heavier end of field capacity and let sit overnight. Sprinkled it over the tub yesterday and then gently moved it around with a fork to get things a bit more even without compressing it. Depth fluctuates, but doesn't appear to be more than 0.25 inches deep max.

***Edit***
Forgot to add that I only needed about 90% of a single quart of coir to cover the surface. Had roughly 1 inch left over in the jar when I measured afterward. It never hurts to have a little extra on hand!
**********

Current thinking is to allow the casing to achieve partial colonization and then slowly ramp up FAE, starting with propping the lid on the binder clips in the gasket-down position, then flipping it to gasket-up as things (hopefully) recover.

Pre-Casing/Post-Casing - Don't let the flash fool you, the coir is dark in person and well-hydrated!


***

Day 19 - No changes yet (still early), just waiting for the colony to make the jump to the casing.


Edited by Morbility (02/28/20 07:25 AM)


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OfflineMadcapper144
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26507708 - 02/28/20 07:14 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride!! :fearandloathing:


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Madcapper144]
    #26514799 - 03/03/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Day 21 - Noticed some scattered areas of rhizo myc popping up about the casing last night. Propped the lid up on the binder clips this morning with the lid in the gasket-down position to introduce a little more FAE now that signs of life are showing through again.

Planning to leave it in this configuration until 30%-50% colonization or somebody stops into the thread and drops knowledge. After some more colonization I'll return to full fruiting conditions in the lid flipped/gasket-up position and keep an eye out for changes.

Binder Clip Config


Surface Conditions (Flash/No Flash)


Edit: Readjusted the binder clips to match the FAE Adjustment photo in my 1st post.


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26524448 - 03/08/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Day 28 - Remarkable recovery since casing 10 days ago. Flipped lid to the gasket-up position this afternoon and actually ended up rotating it 90 deg. horizontal for a few hours to maximize FAE without removing it entirely.

Bottom left area seems a little dry, but the rest appears okay and all the myc has nice little beads of water sitting on top. I hit the dry section with a little mist yesterday and today, but noticed small beads of possible metabolites (from the stress of the added water?) this afternoon, so I've let up on the spray bottle for now. I'm honestly shocked at this organism's resilience in the face of the abuse I had been subjecting it to.

I'd like to get some feedback on how my tub looks at this point and any advice on maintaining fruiting conditions. At the moment I'm just trying to exercise patience and let nature do its thing.

Day 28 PM (Flash/No Flash)


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26524516 - 03/08/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Based on pics only your sub was below field cap and your casing is also really dry.

Ime the myc will want very little to do with dry coir. Escpecially if the texture is like sawdust. As you mist itll do its best to colonize but at such a slowwwwww pace.

Amazing it took 10 days and ate up that top layer too

Im not a contam specialist but those white spots [the ones that pop out ie around center down a few inches] look trich-ish

Might be knots but looks suspect to me. Without a better pic.


Edited by shevanel (03/08/20 07:59 PM)


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: shevanel]
    #26524637 - 03/08/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the feedback. Definitely keeping an eye on the surface now. Have some areas of ropey myc popping through, probably from some contam. In person myc color looks pretty uniform, could be artifacts from the moisture making the pics look strange, but I'm a total novice so  :shrug:

I did notice a side pin forming in the front, so that's good news. I really don't care how retarded they come in, I'm just happy to see a damn fruit after all this time!


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26524653 - 03/08/20 09:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Tell us how your judging field capacity

how much air moves in your grow space? Eg i see no central hvac or standalone heaters,  fans etc in lab but is the mono in the "lab"?

If you see a pin on side try giving more fae now. If those spots on the center surface are knots then fae could help the surface trigger more all over.

Just seems so dry.

Is the tub light when you pick it up or does it have a weighty wet heavier feel?

Probably got a side pin because climate off surface was better. Coir casing still has me boggled.


Edited by shevanel (03/08/20 09:24 PM)


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: shevanel]
    #26524684 - 03/08/20 09:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

  • Field cap was wrung out by hand to a few drops per hard squeeze when I prepped the substrate. I used this link as a guide. I measured the water left over and used slightly more when I cased. Edit: This is a really poor explanation, I can elaborate if it isn't clear.
  • The mono is in the lab. Air only moves by convection, there's no fans or heaters operating in that room.
  • Tub is heavy. Tough to judge, but maybe 15-20lbs as a really rough estimate.
  • Very lightly misted about an hour ago since some areas didn't have any beads of water.

Side Pin


Tub Center Macro


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: Morbility]
    #26524693 - 03/08/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ok yes. Youre not getting enough fae into that unmodded tub.

Get the air moving in that room on a low level.

Phew!!! Those trich-ish spots i "saw" was light refracting the light as the color of the myc below it

Surface looks better than other photos just needs air so that surface can evaporate helping pinning

Dont point the fan at the mono just aim it at a wall so air moves around


For field cap. Dont just look for 2 drops of water off a squeeze. Look at the fibers of coir on the edge as you release your squeeze and be sure water isnt drawing back into the center leaving the outer coir below field cap because coir dries quickly. Its not like hpoo where you have this denser material which holds more water deceptively.

Especially without verm. You really need to know what to look for eg. Surface conditions,  substrate hydration with and without vermiculite.

Now if your not hydrating at a measured volume per qt and then dumping it all into a tub as one mass carrying with it all its moisture content as opposed to manually loading from each squeeze... each calculation whether righr or wrong adds up over the loading process leaving less mositure than you really should have in there. Or more.. just depends. Its not rockets tho..but it can matter come time to perform.  Dont just rely on squeeze+2 drips. Look for details beyond the drops.

You also need to take into consideration of mixing spawn/sub and having exposed grains.

Ime. Exposed grains will dry rapidly because they wont absorb any more liquid

The casing layer helped you here tenfold taking over the workload of having to manually monitor and adjust for optimal substrate surface conditions


Edited by shevanel (03/08/20 10:24 PM)


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OfflineMorbility
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Re: Looking for Help Triaging a Drying/Dying Unmodded Tub [Re: shevanel]
    #26524700 - 03/08/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'll get a fan moving aimed at an opposite wall on low. The lid is staying in the gasket up position now, so there's always gaps in the tub for it to breathe. Great advice on the coir, sometimes it's the little stuff that gets ya. Thanks for your help!


Edited by Morbility (03/08/20 09:59 PM)


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