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Offlinethealienthatategod
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do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death?
    #26523675 - 03/08/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i know this is asking to make a lot of assumptions, but how do you think a non-human animal might conceptualize death differently than a human?  or in the same way?


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InvisibleShr00mEater
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Re: do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26523872 - 03/08/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I dunno.

But, I once saw a sparrow attempting to pull his dead, or severely injured, buddy out of the highway between traffic.

Either that, or he was dragging him to the side of the road because it would be a safer spot to eat his friends carcass.


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Offlinebw86
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Re: do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death? [Re: Shr00mEater] * 1
    #26523895 - 03/08/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think animals don't want to die.
I don't know if they are "afraid" or if the urge to stay alive is so they can spread their genes.
Animals know when they are going to die because hey seek soothing places to go and die when they can.
Nothing wants to die because thats not what living is about.
If all dogs go to heaven-

Praise  doggy Jesus.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 2
    #26523929 - 03/08/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think animals consciously fear, in a reflective sense, or think about their own demise. I've had a lot of contact with animals, and that's just not how they operate. There is an instinctive fear of death -- animals will avoid pain or injury. But they don't conceptualize it. Even higher primates, imo. Whales though, might be an exception -- they are probably the smartest group of species, along with humans. However, there is often a lot of sadness in the animal kingdom when a loved one dies. But I don't think that involves conceptualizing one's own death.

I also think animals suffer in a very different way. Humans focus on their suffering, feeling sorry for themselves, brooding and wondering "Why me?" Animals that are in pain do not worry or focus exclusively on their pain, so I think they suffer much less when they are hurting. But death is not a subject they are aware of moment-to-moment, and when a dangerous situation presents itself, instinct kicks in and really awareness has nothing to do with it.

Just my :twocents:.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26523981 - 03/08/20 01:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It's possible some animals conceptualize their own death. But death has various connotations so to say exactly what that means, even assuming they do is a difficult thing to say.


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death? [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26524008 - 03/08/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Possibly they conceptualize something connected with death, but I don't think they think of an ending like we do. Perhaps one might say they conceptualize danger, not death.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26524058 - 03/08/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i wonder if non-human animals can remember their birth?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: do animals conceptualize their death? do they believe in death? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26524138 - 03/08/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I saw a video of a young chimp whose mother died. He laid down later and died himself, ostensibly from grief. A mother Orca pushed her dead calf's carcass around for 3 weeks. Reserve elephants travelled a great distance to mourn the death of the human who had saved them. How did they know he had died? I've seen a pigeon standing over his/her mate's dead body on the edge of the Cross Bronx Expressway. That was one of the saddest things I'd ever seen at that point about age 19.

We cannot but surmise what a non-human knows about death or impending death. What makes rats abandon ship before the very crisis that sinks it so they won't go down with the ship? How precognitive or clairvoyant are non-humans? Mourning dogs and cats have remained at their late master's grave for years. Linguistic concepts may be absent but imaged and emotional conceptual knowledge may well be present to animals of all kinds. Koko the late gorilla did have a linguistic concept for death, very existential but nothing ontological about post-mortem existence. This stuff might be uniquely human.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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