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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: feldman114]
    #26530398 - 03/12/20 07:28 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

They also tolerated homosexuality way before the west did. But media wouldn't have you believe that


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26530411 - 03/12/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

First off, that's like saying women and men were equal in the US since the 1940's because women worked in factories during the war.

Did you even read the link you yourself just posted?

Quote:

In 1930 the Zhenotdel disbanded, as the government claimed that their work was completed. Women began to enter the Soviet workforce on a scale never seen before. However, in the mid-1930s there was a return to more traditional and conservative values in many areas of social and family policy. Abortion became illegal, homosexuality was declared a crime, legal differences between legitimate and illegitimate children were restored, and divorce once again became difficult to attain.[37] Women became the heroines of the home and made sacrifices for their husbands and were to create a positive life at home that would "increase productivity and improve quality of work".[38] The 1940s continued the traditional ideology - the nuclear family was the driving force of the time. Women held the social responsibility of motherhood that could not be ignored.




That is from your link.

The modern feminist movement NEVER happened in the USSR.

Secondly, a LOT(read: all) of the progressivism of the USSR regarding race/gender was communist propaganda, and wasn't true in practice or reality.

And has absolutely nothing to do with how women are treated and viewed by men, nor is it representative of things today.

Want to see how much you know?

Quote:

In the Soviet Union, Mamonova struggled at great personal risk. She organized women to write and circulate the first underground feminist journal, "Woman and Russia," which featured articles by women from the Eastern Bloc, including Poles, Czechs and Bulgarians. Her activities prompted the KGB to hire a jet in 1980 and pile Mamonova, her husband and son and two other feminists on board against their will. They were exiled to Vienna just before the Moscow Olympics -- a precaution against embarrassment during the international event.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1984/08/29/feminism-in-the-ussr/bb884fe2-0ca0-420f-a253-f753697b4673/

Quote:

In a country where the concept of feminism remains at best socially neutral and at worst a “mortal sin,” activists fighting for gender equality under the banner of feminism have to take success where they can get it. And it's often fleeting.




Considering the link you posted, I thought you would really appreciate this.

Quote:

Officially, after the [1917 Russian] Revolution, all women’s rights were achieved, so therefore according to the Soviet system, feminism as a movement had no need to exist,” Garina says.

But the ideal of gender equality as espoused in Marxist doctrine was far from reality. Though equality was touted in principle after the Communist revolution and women's education and literacy rates rose, in practice, it looked quite different




https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-06-05/after-decades-shadows-russias-feminists-grab-their-spotlight

Why don't you ask Pussy Riot how they feel about feminism in modern Russia...


Edited by Holybullshit (03/12/20 08:08 AM)


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26530412 - 03/12/20 07:38 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
They also tolerated homosexuality way before the west did. But media wouldn't have you believe that




WTF are you talking about? Sure, the USSR accidentally legalized homosexuality when they abolished the Tsarist legal code, but that didn't last long.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia#LGBT_history_under_Stalin:_1933%E2%80%931953

Quote:

In 1933, the Soviet government under Stalin recriminalised sex between men. On 7 March 1934, Article 121 was added to the criminal code for the entire Soviet Union that expressly prohibited only male homosexuality, with up to five years of hard labour in prison....

When Stalin came to power, homosexuality became a topic unfit for public depiction, defense or discussion....After Stalin died in 1953, he was replaced by Nikita Khrushchev, who proceeded to liberalize the Stalin era laws regarding marriage, divorce and abortion, but the anti-gay criminal law remained....

In 1958, the Interior Ministry sent a secret memo to law enforcement ordering them to step up enforcement of the anti-gay criminal law....

In 1984, a group of Russian gay men met and attempted to organize an official gay rights organization, only to be quickly shut down by the KGB.




And here is the real kicker.

Quote:

A poll conducted in 1989 reported that homosexuals were the most hated group in Russian society and that 30 percent of those polled felt that homosexuals should be liquidated.[35] In a 1991 public opinion poll conducted in Chelyabinsk, 30 percent of the respondents aged 16 to 30 years old felt that homosexuals should be "isolated from society", 5 percent felt they should be "liquidated", 60 percent had a "negative" attitude toward gay people and 5 percent labeled their sexual orientation "unfortunate"




https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/12/11/no-support/russias-gay-propaganda-law-imperils-lgbt-youth

Quote:

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) youth in Russia face formidable barriers to enjoying their fundamental rights to dignity, health, education, information, and association. In Russia, antipathy towards homosexuality and gender variance is not new—LGBT people there have long faced threats, bullying, abuse inside their families, and discrimination—but the 2013 “gay propaganda” law has increased that social hostility. The law has also had a stifling effect on access to affirming education and support services, with harmful consequences for LGBT youth.




https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/26/how-the-soviet-union-tried-to-cure-my-homosexuality-a66162

Quote:

At that time, family counseling centers had just started to spring up in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg). One wasn’t far from where my relatives used to live, on 25 Rubinstein street. Now it’s been turned into a bar.

Don’t let the word “family” fool you — the center was actually the first legal organization dedicated to “sexology” or what you might call “sexual pathology.” I was 17 then. The predominant social opinion was that homosexuality was a disease that needed to be treated.




https://www.rbth.com/history/329768-ussr-lgbt-soviet-gays

Quote:

In the country where homosexual relations between men were criminalized (at least 25,000 imprisoned), being gay was hard, to put it mildly.

...the truth: it’s really dangerous to be gay in the USSR...

...Also, often the courts didn’t mention homosexuality directly. You could be gay, know that you’re oppressed for being so, yet go to jail under another pretext. That happened to well-known gay poet Nikolai Klyuev, detained, tried, and shot in the 1930s for his “counter-revolutionary activity.”




Clearly so very tolerant.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/12/20 08:47 AM)


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26530424 - 03/12/20 07:49 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Your ignorance is honestly astounding, and its not just the fact that you are ignorant...its that you think you know what you are talking about, when you clearly don't.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26530580 - 03/12/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

We have anti gay laws here too still on books. Big fucking deal. How does society work.

Try doing something other than reading, propaganda, about Russia


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26532295 - 03/13/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well, NOW you say “modern”.
I was talking about the USSR. During Stalin’s time...when women weren’t allowed to even be manager of McDonald’s in the US lol...Meanwhile, women were business leaders in the USSR during the same time period.

I don’t need links to know this, bud. I was born in the USSR.
A certain mentality developed where society just deemed women as more collected and better fit for management roles than men. It’s hard to reconcile considering all the atrocities being committed in the USSR at the time, but it’s true:shrug:

Also, I’m the LAST person to defend Russia or Putin, but I give credit where it’s due... I grew up seeing more women than men as bosses, doctors, judges, etc. Can you say the same?


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: feldman114]
    #26534145 - 03/14/20 08:07 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

First off, there might have been another reason you saw more women than men "growing up"...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/14/why-the-former-ussr-has-far-fewer-men-than-women/

I would think it was obvious I was talking about the modern feminist movement, an analog to what we saw in the US in the latter half of the 20th century...not the Victorian fucking era.

Are you a woman? When did you move out of the USSR?

Me listening to you about feminism in the Russia would be equivalent(actually worse, because the USSR hasn't existed for nearly 30 years) of me asking a child for his take on feminism in the US.

I don't give a shit if you were born there, you don't know WTF you are talking about and women becoming managers/supervisors has absolutely nothing to do with how they are treated by men socially in Russia.

And WTF does Putin have to do with how many women you saw working as a child?

And since you seem to equate equality in the workplace with equality outside of it...

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2017/09/15/women-in-russia-earn-much-less-than-men-a58950

Quote:

“Russian women’s wages are 26 percent lower than those of men,” Golodets said at a government strategy meeting.




Also, you should read Women in Managerial and Professional Positions: The United States and the Soviet Union

Which finds that "while Soviet women have had much more success at attaining professional positions, the differences are less in managerial occupations...Soviet women workers face many employment problems and the Sovit Union is overrated as a model of equality in employment."


Edited by Holybullshit (03/14/20 09:02 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26534154 - 03/14/20 08:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That's probably why America needed a me too movement but Russia didn't right?


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26534155 - 03/14/20 08:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
That's probably why America needed a me too movement but Russia didn't right?




You think Russia doesn't need a me too movement? Are you out of your fucking mind?

https://time.com/5636107/metoo-russia-womens-rights/

Quote:

The situation for women in Russia is getting worse, activists say. At least 40,000 women are affected by domestic violence each year, and at least 12,000 women are dying at the hands of their abusers annually, according to Russian government statistics, cited by the U.K. government.That’s about 33 women per day, 20 times the U.S. fatality rate.




"20 times the U.S. fatality rate"....but everything is hunky dory over there, total equality....take note that the Russian me too movement is as much about violence committed against women as it is sexual harassment. One of the central hashtags translates to “I Didn’t Want to Die”. But keep telling yourself things are oh so much better for women over there.

And if that wasn't enough...

Quote:

Meanwhile, there are no laws tackling workplace sexual harassment, including inappropriate sexual remarks or physical advances, leaving Russians with limited legal resources to charge someone or even file a complaint.




NO LAWS BANNING SEXUAL HARRASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE!

And...

Quote:

In January 2017, Russian president Vladimir Putin signed a law decriminalizing domestic violence that does not cause serious injury with “serious” defined as an injury that requires hospital treatment. Since it was adopted in February 2017, beatings that leave bruises, scratches, or bleeding, but that do not cause broken bones or a concussion, are no longer a criminal offense.




THEY DECRIMINALIZED DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO HEAR???


Are you going to be the next one to tell me you don't need to hear facts?...LMAO, you know you are right when the person you are debating admits that no matter what information you present, they will never change their position.

----------------

Quote:

We have anti gay laws here too still on books. Big fucking deal. How does society work.




They weren't just "still on the books", they actually imprisoned people. And how the fuck were the links I posted propaganda "about" Russia, most of them were Russian sources FFS...

But it's telling that you consider "Human Rights Watch" propaganda.

And since everything I posted before for you was about the USSR, here's a link concerning modern say Russia and its got nothing to do with "the books".

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-homophobia-lgbt-sexuality-gay-friend-research-a8926836.html

Quote:

Almost one in three Russians would disown a gay friend, study finds




Is that what tolerance looks like? Or do you think things were better for homosexuals 30-100 years ago, and they just got worse since then?(don't answer that, its rhetorical)

I'm done here, you both will do/say anything to avoid admitting(to yourselves) that you were wrong.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/14/20 09:14 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26534257 - 03/14/20 09:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Time magazine is an American propaganda factory. Not a reputable news outlet. Russia bad is what they want you to hear. I suggest you visit Russia sometime in your life and form your own opinions. Maybe see propaganda for what it is.

Most Americans think the entire middle east is a third world shithole.

Most Americans think the same of India


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26534261 - 03/14/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Heck my wife won't even vacation to Mexico because of propaganda and Mexico is fucking awesome


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26534263 - 03/14/20 09:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Time magazine is an American propaganda factory. Not a reputable news outlet. Russia bad is what they want you to hear. I suggest you visit Russia sometime in your life and form your own opinions. Maybe see propaganda for what it is.

Most Americans think the entire middle east is a third world shithole.

Most Americans think the same of India




None of the links in my original reply to you sourced Time magazine...they were wikipedia, the moscow times, russia beyond, and human rights watch. I also linked to public radio international, and the pew research center.

Do those really sounds like "propaganda about Russia."??

And are you saying that Russia did not decriminalize domestic vioelence or that they do have laws banning workplace sexual harrasment????

Are you saying that isn't true?

And you might not like what Time chooses to report about, or how they spin it, but....

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/time/

Quote:

Factual Reporting: HIGH




If you really only believe what you've experienced personally and deny all outside sources of information beyond your own experiences, no wonder you are so out of touch with reality.

That is solipsism of the highest order and indicative of narcissism.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/14/20 09:23 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26534278 - 03/14/20 09:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Cool the facts are true. No one was ever arguing that. Who cares. Russians think we shoot black kids for fun and that you'll also have a 1/10 chance of being shot shopping or going to school. That 99% of us are fat.

The facts are cool and all but the picture they try to misleadingly paint with these facts is bullshit.

Of course all of those sources are propaganda. All our domestic news is propaganda about ourselves. Democrats in my state make it seem like abortion is impossible. People parrot it. In reality plenty of people get them all the time with no hassle here. So you ask one fired up liberal middle age person they'll say Wisconsin is extremely oppressive to women. Ask a 18-30 year old girl and she says wtf are you talking about


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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26534283 - 03/14/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Republicans here would have you believe they're coming for the guns even the hunting ones. But you can go to the store and walk out with a glock 17 and 33 round magazine and ammunition in an hour.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26534294 - 03/14/20 09:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't know the moscow times, russia beyond, public international radio and human rights watch were domestic news sources.

And there are a grand total of 2 PP's providing abortion in Wisconsin, 96% of counties have no abortion clinics and 70% of the population lives in counties that do no provide abortion services...so while not impossible, yet, I wouldn't say it is widely available or "hassle free".

https://thetab.com/us/wisconsin/2018/03/05/wisconsin-abortion-7011

Quote:

What was the first appointment like?

They couldn't get me in for a week and a half, and if they would've gotten me in any later I would have had no choice but to get the suction or surgical abortion...There are only two clinics in Wisconsin, Madison and Milwaukee






Edited by Holybullshit (03/14/20 09:46 AM)


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Offlinethirtygoats
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas' [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26538996 - 03/16/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If they're so quick to blame it completely on  laughing gas, then there was likely something legal and "acceptable" involved, like alcohol or maybe they both had an adverse/unexpected reaction to taking the recommended dose (or possibly a little more) of prescription pills they had.

For both of these young people to both die from laughing gas at the same time is literally impossible, and that's not exaggerating. Although there is a slight possibility the gas could have been contaminated somehow, but highly unlikely.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26543970 - 03/19/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
They also tolerated homosexuality way before the west did. But media wouldn't have you believe that




People in Russia and Ukraine actively hunt down homosexuals, torture them and put it on YouTube.

they call everyone who isn’t straight a “sexual deviant” and even today they use pedophilia and homosexuality interchangeably.

And you should know what protest is like in Russia. I was watching a video of a kid with a Rasta hat waving a “Legalize it” sign peacefully. He was then beaten, right in the face, by an angry mob, but did not leave or stop protesting

Also, while illegal cannabis isn’t a huge deal in Russia unless you’re somehow important and they arrrest you for political reasons. Or just being stupid or open blazing


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas [Re: Fractal420]
    #26544041 - 03/19/20 07:21 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Do you also think Russians form opinions of America off of a few stupid redneck videos? Everyone in America beats gays too because there's a few videos of hate crimes.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas [Re: Fractal420]
    #26544062 - 03/19/20 07:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
They also tolerated homosexuality way before the west did. But media wouldn't have you believe that




People in Russia and Ukraine actively hunt down homosexuals, torture them and put it on YouTube.

they call everyone who isn’t straight a “sexual deviant” and even today they use pedophilia and homosexuality interchangeably.

And you should know what protest is like in Russia. I was watching a video of a kid with a Rasta hat waving a “Legalize it” sign peacefully. He was then beaten, right in the face, by an angry mob, but did not leave or stop protesting

Also, while illegal cannabis isn’t a huge deal in Russia unless you’re somehow important and they arrrest you for political reasons. Or just being stupid or open blazing




People in the US and Zimbabwe are severely undereducated.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Young Ukraine chess couple 'killed by laughing gas [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26544070 - 03/19/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Do you also think Russians form opinions of America off of a few stupid redneck videos? Everyone in America beats gays too because there's a few videos of hate crimes.




It happens at a MUCH higher rate...and it isn't just about those who commit the acts, but how those actions are viewed and videos received.

Again...

Quote:

Almost one in three Russians would disown a gay friend, study finds




https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-homophobia-lgbt-sexuality-gay-friend-research-a8926836.html

You are wrong, your view regarding homosexuality in Russia is not accurate or backed up by reality, let alone the USSR...which is what your original comments were about. In the USSR homosexuals had it even worse.


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