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Prietenul
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Same trip experience over and over again 1
#26521094 - 03/06/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi,
lately I have this strange problem with my cubes trips. Every trips seems to be exactly the same.
I usually trip on doses of 4-6g dried of GTs,alone in silent darkness. The first few trips were amazing although my recollection was not as great as with later trips.
But since 4-5 trips I always end up seeing visuals and having my mind spilling over with different thoughts/moods.
It's hard to explain for me, but I found this old thread where someone describes exactly what I'm experiencing:
Quote:
Phrenic said:
[...] at start it was very heavy, visuals being strong and my mind going to dozens of thoughts at the same time. [...] the trip was an strong experience of visualizations and massive mood swings. i know how to be aware of my emotions so although my mood went up and down, i stayed calm the whole time. although there were many thought going through my head, no new ideas were popping up and my mind didn't came up with interesting twists to perspectives (which i was use to with the old trips)
a week later i did shrooms again and because i was still so aware of my previous trip i realised that everything was going exactly the same. at the same moments colors started to change.. at the same strength walls started to morph and at the same rate my emotions started to swing. again i stayed calm the whole way. and again, no new thoughts... as if my mind was done thinking and just didn't have anything new to think of.
3 weeks later, the same thing happend... and a week after again... every trip was exactly the same..
the trips are just getting boring 
has anyone here ever experienced that? what's your advice? just quit using because the fun is out of it... or will my brain find a new path one day?
I've tried more moderate doses but it just makes the experience less intense.
Currently I'm trying to grow some Panaeolus, to see if that will change things back to normal,whatever that is 
I'm a little concerned, that it will stay this way.
Did someone else ever encounter anything like that? Or is it just my mind (and Phrenics) that acts strange?
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Shr00mEater
Strange

Registered: 10/17/18
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521161 - 03/06/20 07:01 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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How often were you tripping?
And always silent darkness?
Try going outside on shroomz man, it is definitely different.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 2
#26521288 - 03/06/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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You may just need to live some life so your head is different. Maybe the shrooms are looking back at you and thinking “it’s just the same dude, over and over again”..
--------------------
Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521341 - 03/06/20 09:10 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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What are you expecting to have as the trip experience?
'cause it sounds like you need a breakthrough where things change...significantly...when tripping. Might take more, not less.
Take 8 g and see if that doesn't tear down the walls and unleash the inner, uhm, whatever.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521529 - 03/07/20 01:28 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Try to change some of your daily routine/life patterns. That can honestly make all the difference. Your brain adapts to everything, and that adaptation absolutely has an impact on trip quality/intensity IMHO and experience.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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DJ Ed
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521546 - 03/07/20 01:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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OP, try a music playlist.
You say you trip in silence, music will definitely change your trip. If you do listen to music, change it. So if you normally listen to psy-ambient, try psy-trance. You get what I’m saying?
If you trip indoors, try tripping outdoors.
Change up your routine as above, change your set setting and dose.
If none of that works, then not sure what I could suggest, because that works for most.
Good luck
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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SFS96
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Loaded Shaman] 1
#26521547 - 03/07/20 01:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I recommend music. Every song can produce different visuals sometimes. I never trip without music, nothing takes me further.
-------------------- How I make and preserve tea
Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood
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Near Dylan
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521569 - 03/07/20 02:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I will be the guy that says to just stop trying to force yourself to have some sort of revelation on mushrooms. If you keep tripping and are not really getting anything from the trips and aren't really enjoying it, I really don't see any reason to keep on tripping.
--------------------
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Raccoon
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: SFS96] 1
#26521576 - 03/07/20 02:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Changing the setting will definitely change things. Adding music, going outside, painting, etc. like others mentioned. But if you still want the meditative setting, then change your set. I notice the thoughts that come up during a trip (or just in meditation in general) relates to what I am currently interested in for the past month, week, or day. I read a lot of philosophy, and generally those things bubble up in amazing ways.
I also recommend just letting go of the desire to make new and interesting perspectives. That, in itself, is a new and interesting perspective. During meditation or trips I think it's obvious to let go of things like fear and anxiety, but it's less obvious to let go of things you love about yourself, such as your analytical self (something I struggle to let go of). It's good to appreciate and enjoy those things, but it can be a trap. It sounds like the amazing analytical you, whom you love is ruminating over this "problem" and giving it momentum. Let it go.
-------------------- First Grow
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Prietenul
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Raccoon]
#26521751 - 03/07/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow, when I went to bed I didn't expect so many responses so fast. This is an amazing community.. 
Quote:
Shr00mEater said: How often were you tripping?
And always silent darkness?
Try going outside on shroomz man, it is definitely different. 
It varied. Sometimes weeks in between, sometimes months. Yeah, mostly silent darkness.
I'll have to find a safe place for that, especially on 5+g... It's not that easy. You don't want to see yourself in the local newspaper the next day 
Quote:
Amanita86 said: You may just need to live some life so your head is different. Maybe the shrooms are looking back at you and thinking “it’s just the same dude, over and over again”..
Yeah, maybe the shrooms are getting bored of me, visiting their realm 
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: What are you expecting to have as the trip experience?
'cause it sounds like you need a breakthrough where things change...significantly...when tripping. Might take more, not less.
Take 8 g and see if that doesn't tear down the walls and unleash the inner, uhm, whatever. 
That's what I will try next. Increase the dose. Will report back how that goes, but I will have to let some time (1-2 weeks) pass before trying that. Also, I'm growing Pans right now, maybe that will help.
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: Try to change some of your daily routine/life patterns. That can honestly make all the difference. Your brain adapts to everything, and that adaptation absolutely has an impact on trip quality/intensity IMHO and experience.
That's also a good idea. My life has become somewhat monotonous lately. Maybe I should think about doing something new, more exceptional.
Quote:
DJ Ed said: OP, try a music playlist.
You say you trip in silence, music will definitely change your trip. If you do listen to music, change it. So if you normally listen to psy-ambient, try psy-trance. You get what I’m saying?
If you trip indoors, try tripping outdoors.
Change up your routine as above, change your set setting and dose.
If none of that works, then not sure what I could suggest, because that works for most.
Good luck
Thanks friend. I will try this. I did it in silent darkness in order to not disturb the "pure experience" like Terrence McKenna suggested. But you are right. I should start to experiment and change things...
Quote:
Near Dylan said: I will be the guy that says to just stop trying to force yourself to have some sort of revelation on mushrooms. If you keep tripping and are not really getting anything from the trips and aren't really enjoying it, I really don't see any reason to keep on tripping.
I get your point but I will not give up that easily. After all, I did not spend the last year investing hundreds of $ on cultivation tools and hundreds of hours of acquiring knowledge of mushrooms grow, just to stop now because of a little "experience-stalling".
I would consider that, if I had constant bad trips or so. But not in this case...
Quote:
Raccoon said: Changing the setting will definitely change things. Adding music, going outside, painting, etc. like others mentioned. But if you still want the meditative setting, then change your set. I notice the thoughts that come up during a trip (or just in meditation in general) relates to what I am currently interested in for the past month, week, or day. I read a lot of philosophy, and generally those things bubble up in amazing ways.
I also recommend just letting go of the desire to make new and interesting perspectives. That, in itself, is a new and interesting perspective. During meditation or trips I think it's obvious to let go of things like fear and anxiety, but it's less obvious to let go of things you love about yourself, such as your analytical self (something I struggle to let go of). It's good to appreciate and enjoy those things, but it can be a trap. It sounds like the amazing analytical you, whom you love is ruminating over this "problem" and giving it momentum. Let it go.
Thanks for this great post. You are right. I should definitely try to observe and change my initial intentions and expectations. Also reading philosophical books and letting that into my experience sounds like an interesting approach. I loved reading about philosophy back in the day but eventually it slipped out of my life.
I'll have to experiment more with the whole experience, that seems obvious...
My error seems to be, that I was expecting ever new experiences (like the first few) without any changes in my life or my set/setting. So yeah, it could be, that the same approach to tripping will result in having the same trip after some time. Sounds reasonable.
Still it seems, that nobody else has experienced the same "trip-stalling" as I described in the OP. I have ADHD and would consider myself as a "not-the-average-type" person. I was concerned, that there is something wrong with me. I'll try your suggestions. Then I can find out if it's me or really just set/setting.
Thank you all for your input. This really helps me a lot.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul]
#26521758 - 03/07/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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the term tripping, IMO, relates to the propensity to trip out, or side trip, which is a loss of connectedness to the primacy of sensation and perception in the moment, while immersing in feelings, memories, dreams, and trauma (another word for dreams but with negative connotation). some perceptions will unpreventably cause you to trip out, every time. No blame, really!
tripping out is normal. it should keep happening.
the key is to retain some of the primacy of connectedness: sensation and simple perception, even as you trip out. I call this riding the waves while tripping and tripping out gracefully.
it takes practice.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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Prietenul
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: redgreenvines]
#26521793 - 03/07/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: the term tripping, IMO, relates to the propensity to trip out, or side trip, which is a loss of connectedness to the primacy of sensation and perception in the moment, while immersing in feelings, memories, dreams, and trauma (another word for dreams but with negative connotation). some perceptions will unpreventably cause you to trip out, every time. No blame, really!
tripping out is normal. it should keep happening.
the key is to retain some of the primacy of connectedness: sensation and simple perception, even as you trip out. I call this riding the waves while tripping and tripping out gracefully.
it takes practice.
It's not so much a "a loss of connectedness to the primacy of sensation and perception in the moment" that I'm experiencing.
With my first few experiences the feeling of "tripping" was more like a lesson taught to me by my higher self. I had insights into my life that where sometimes trivial (e.g need to get more active, make sport, have more contact to family, grandparents will die soon - you need to visit them more often...) but also profound insight into my inner workings/problems (not just knowing what has to be done, but feeling it with my whole being).
The fact that these "exciting" insides faded away over time and I was left with mere visuals (blinking and sparkling shapes) and some chaotic/unordered thoughts and moods, became upsetting. I had considered the mushrooms to be a valuable tool to help me master/improve my life and now it seemed that this tool lost it's sharp edge.
Also, I did not really implement/integrate the things that the shrooms showed/told me during my first trips. (didn't start sports, didn't visit family more often...). So I thought, maybe the shrooms are waiting for me to implement the given wisdom into my life, before they will give me new insights. I know that sounds stupid... Anyway, I wouldn't consider those bad trips. It's more like "not so useful trips".
The suggestions of people in this thread however, made me believe, that it could be the setting and attitude towards tripping that needs to be changed from time to time.
I have nothing to lose, so I will just experiment and see if something changes.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521858 - 03/07/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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There’s a pretty significant factor with forgetting in between trips, you need to space them out so that you optimize the surprise of the trip doing it’s thing. By then you’ve also lived enough life that your head is in a different place. Banging out trips back to back is going to just become the physical effects minus the revelation if the revelation has just been told to you 4 times. You know what I’m saying.
It’s probably getting repetitive because the manner in which you’re using it is repetitive. Only option around that is I guess what was mention, go deeper. The best trip is going to be one you take after a long enough period that you get surprised by the trip.
--------------------
Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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DJ Ed
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521859 - 03/07/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey Prietenul,
You seem like a great guy who’ll always be welcome in this forum with your considered posts 👍🏻
A couple more points for you. First of all, great to her you’re sticking to your guns; respect. Secondly, just re-considered having re-read the OP, and now speaking from having personally experienced exactly the same as you described in the OP......where you still “trip”, get the visuals, but “the magic” is somehow missing, and hence the trip is, dare I say “boring”!
Well the only thing I put this down to is tolerance. I can trip at 3.8g dry range every two weeks without any loss of magic. Were I to do the same at 1 week intervals, by the 3rd week, the magic disappears.
Maybe give yourself a full month off; time spent adjusting your set, and maybe consider making changes to the setting for the upcoming trip. Take walks in nature, read philosophy, watch some psilocybin videos on YouTube; check out Dan Harry’s video on the London Real website, or the YouTube channel). If you register with them, you get the full length videos. Here’s a link to the 30 minute clip with Dan Hardy (UFC Fighter - The Outlaw): Dan Hardy - London Real
If the link doesn’t work, it’s an easy search in YouTube, (Dan Hardy London Real) 3rd hit down 👍🏻
❤️ DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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individualist
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: DJ Ed] 1
#26521923 - 03/07/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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There are multiple layers of tolerance.
There is tolerance in the biochemically mediated sense...that the H2A (or whatever) serotonin receptors are simply less stimulated by the psilo and thus less “trip” is delivered to the brain.
Then there is tolerance in the psychogenic sense. That, even with the same amount of serotonin receptors stimulation, with the same amoaunt of “trip” delivered to the brain, the conscious human mind is simply more psychologically accustomed to it and the same level of biochemical stimulation yoelds a smaller psychological impact. Like listening to the same song over and over again or riding a roller coaster multiple times in a day.
This is what I think people mean when they say “I was tripping just as hard but somehow the ‘magic’ just wasn’t there.”
Waiting two weeks between trips is enough to reset the biochemically mediated tolerance. However, I think it takes a good two months between trips to reset psychogenic tolerance to the extent needed to have a profoundly meaningful spiritual experience each time
-------------------- Question with boldness
Edited by individualist (03/07/20 09:33 AM)
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DJ Ed
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: individualist] 1
#26521939 - 03/07/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
individualist said: There are multiple layers of tolerance.
There is tolerance in the biochemically mediated sense...that the H2A (or whatever) serotonin receptors are simply less stimulated by the psilo and thus less “trip” is delivered to the brain.
Then there is tolerance in the psychogenic sense. That, even with the same amount of serotonin receptors stimulation, with the same amoaunt of “trip” delivered to the brain, the conscious human mind is simply more psychologically accustomed to it and the same level of biochemical stimulation yoelds a smaller psychological impact. Like listening to the same song over and over again or riding a roller coaster multiple times in a day.
This is what I think people mean when they say “I was tripping just as hard but somehow the ‘magic’ just wasn’t there.”
Waiting two weeks between trips is enough to reset the biochemically mediated tolerance. However, I think it takes a good two months between trips to reset psychogenic tolerance to the extent needed to have a profoundly meaningful spiritual experience each time
Very clear explanation there, individualist, thank you for sharing that.
Yes I empathise with what you say. Invariably, after a few months lay-off, the “magic” is spectacular.
What I discovered with the fortnightly regime, for almost 5 months, was how to accept the anxiety, how to trip alone, and therefore how to go much deeper. Towards the end, particularly through smoking cannabis too early in the peak, was that the mushrooms started spanking me. And even though I was going “deeper” in each trip, the “magic” was slowly evaporating away, such that I was benefiting less from each successive trip.
I’ve just started a new job and new lifestyle. Cut out alcohol and cannabis, gonna start eating healthier, and walking at nights, and basically reconnecting with myself and integrating. One week in and my life is feeling amazing. And I am so excited for my next trip because it is going to be, why’s the best word......WONDERFUL.
Loving life, and loving the shroomery ✊🏻
Mush love DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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Prietenul
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Amanita86]
#26521962 - 03/07/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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The fact that I take the shrooms in the exact same setting (my room, at night, dark, alone, ~5g dried) over and over again could really foster those repetitive (un-magic) experiences. So I think you are all right. I will try to do it somewhere else or at least differently (with music and light or maybe even go outside at night when the effects have dropped a little). Also the tip to try and take a higher dose will be tested out someday 
The issue with spacing out trips should not be a major factor for me here, because the time between my last trip and the one before was around one month (had no trip in February). However, as individualist pointed out, even that month may not be enough to reset pathogenic tolerance. This is definitely something I need to look into.
DJ Ed, thanks for your friendly words and tips. It's uplifting to hear, that I'm not the only one who encountered this phenomenon. And as you seem to have dealt with it successfully, I have more hope now, that I can do that, too. Also, maybe if someone else has similar kinds of problems, they will find this thread as a useful first step towards improvement.
I will definitely take your suggestions and add them to my list of things, that I could do to improve my next trip.
I will now let 1.5-2 months pass and try again. Maybe until then I will have succeeded with growing my Pans (which should also change the trip considerably)
After that I will let you know how it turned out.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: Prietenul] 1
#26521964 - 03/07/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prietenul said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: the term tripping, IMO, relates to the propensity to trip out, or side trip, which is a loss of connectedness to the primacy of sensation and perception in the moment, while immersing in feelings, memories, dreams, and trauma (another word for dreams but with negative connotation). some perceptions will unpreventably cause you to trip out, every time. No blame, really!
tripping out is normal. it should keep happening.
the key is to retain some of the primacy of connectedness: sensation and simple perception, even as you trip out. I call this riding the waves while tripping and tripping out gracefully.
it takes practice.
It's not so much a "a loss of connectedness to the primacy of sensation and perception in the moment" that I'm experiencing.
With my first few experiences the feeling of "tripping" was more like a lesson taught to me by my higher self. I had insights into my life that where sometimes trivial (e.g need to get more active, make sport, have more contact to family, grandparents will die soon - you need to visit them more often...) but also profound insight into my inner workings/problems (not just knowing what has to be done, but feeling it with my whole being).
The fact that these "exciting" insides faded away over time and I was left with mere visuals (blinking and sparkling shapes) and some chaotic/unordered thoughts and moods, became upsetting. I had considered the mushrooms to be a valuable tool to help me master/improve my life and now it seemed that this tool lost it's sharp edge.
Also, I did not really implement/integrate the things that the shrooms showed/told me during my first trips. (didn't start sports, didn't visit family more often...). So I thought, maybe the shrooms are waiting for me to implement the given wisdom into my life, before they will give me new insights. I know that sounds stupid... Anyway, I wouldn't consider those bad trips. It's more like "not so useful trips".
The suggestions of people in this thread however, made me believe, that it could be the setting and attitude towards tripping that needs to be changed from time to time.
I have nothing to lose, so I will just experiment and see if something changes.
yes settings and attitude. I may not have been clear enough - what I am talking about is attitude, and not the attitude that you have to do something which you are not already doing. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing or with what you are experiencing.
My explanation about the primacy of experiencing is really about contact. prime because it is before perception or recognition. This is the area that people can explore more easily on psychedelics or in yoga. Each sense has primacy in the moment, including thoughts which seem spontaneous, and yet may not be recognized or perceived.
the primacy of the moment remains accessible when stoned but the overall resonance becomes much greater, and it can be difficult to determine what is "real" or contactable, and what is inflated by resonance.
sure there are many realizations about self, and resolutions of what to change but that is not primacy, and you will not have much refuge in those "deals with god/devil/self", but if you can regain connection, in the moment, during any trip, it will be a refuge; and trying to do that, is a great habit to have - if you can practice it. It is the habit of open attitude. Open to the moment.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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Vibe_Enthusiast
Mushroom Technician



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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: SFS96] 1
#26521988 - 03/07/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SFS96 said: I recommend music. Every song can produce different visuals sometimes. I never trip without music, nothing takes me further.
Absolutely!!! I will NEVER trip without music. There may be times during the trip where I do take my headphones off and sit there for a second. But it's usually to get and wrap my head around how far the music just took me after that song and kind of integrate it into that headspace.
I prefer music.. 11/10 times.
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Prietenul
Friend
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Posts: 379
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Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Same trip experience over and over again [Re: redgreenvines]
#26522065 - 03/07/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
Prietenul said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: the term tripping, IMO, relates to the propensity to trip out, or side trip, which is a loss of connectedness to the primacy of sensation and perception in the moment, while immersing in feelings, memories, dreams, and trauma (another word for dreams but with negative connotation). some perceptions will unpreventably cause you to trip out, every time. No blame, really!
tripping out is normal. it should keep happening.
the key is to retain some of the primacy of connectedness: sensation and simple perception, even as you trip out. I call this riding the waves while tripping and tripping out gracefully.
it takes practice.
It's not so much a "a loss of connectedness to the primacy of sensation and perception in the moment" that I'm experiencing.
With my first few experiences the feeling of "tripping" was more like a lesson taught to me by my higher self. I had insights into my life that where sometimes trivial (e.g need to get more active, make sport, have more contact to family, grandparents will die soon - you need to visit them more often...) but also profound insight into my inner workings/problems (not just knowing what has to be done, but feeling it with my whole being).
The fact that these "exciting" insides faded away over time and I was left with mere visuals (blinking and sparkling shapes) and some chaotic/unordered thoughts and moods, became upsetting. I had considered the mushrooms to be a valuable tool to help me master/improve my life and now it seemed that this tool lost it's sharp edge.
Also, I did not really implement/integrate the things that the shrooms showed/told me during my first trips. (didn't start sports, didn't visit family more often...). So I thought, maybe the shrooms are waiting for me to implement the given wisdom into my life, before they will give me new insights. I know that sounds stupid... Anyway, I wouldn't consider those bad trips. It's more like "not so useful trips".
The suggestions of people in this thread however, made me believe, that it could be the setting and attitude towards tripping that needs to be changed from time to time.
I have nothing to lose, so I will just experiment and see if something changes.
yes settings and attitude. I may not have been clear enough - what I am talking about is attitude, and not the attitude that you have to do something which you are not already doing. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing or with what you are experiencing.
My explanation about the primacy of experiencing is really about contact. prime because it is before perception or recognition. This is the area that people can explore more easily on psychedelics or in yoga. Each sense has primacy in the moment, including thoughts which seem spontaneous, and yet may not be recognized or perceived.
the primacy of the moment remains accessible when stoned but the overall resonance becomes much greater, and it can be difficult to determine what is "real" or contactable, and what is inflated by resonance.
sure there are many realizations about self, and resolutions of what to change but that is not primacy, and you will not have much refuge in those "deals with god/devil/self", but if you can regain connection, in the moment, during any trip, it will be a refuge; and trying to do that, is a great habit to have - if you can practice it. It is the habit of open attitude. Open to the moment.
I have a hard time fully understanding your post. But I'm trying  Maybe that's due to that fact, that I'm not a native English speaker... Still I think I get the gist of it, I guess.
Am I right, that with stating that "deals with god/devil/self" are no refuge, you imply that I should not push so hard to get those "magic", insightful trips and just take the putative "boring" ones as they are? Make the best out of those?
I think what you are trying to say is really interesting and I would appreciate it if you could elaborate in more simple terms, maybe using some analogy or relating it all to my described behaviour/experience.
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