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OfflineYthanA
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Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures
    #26511224 - 03/01/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures
scitechdaily.com

Children and teens with epilepsy who were treated with pharmaceutical cannabidiol (CBD) had much better seizure control than those who were treated with artisanal CBD, according to a preliminary study to be presented at the American Academy of Neurology’s 72nd Annual Meeting in Toronto, Canada, April 25 to May 1, 2020.

CBD is a cannabis component that relieves stress and anxiety and has anti-seizure properties. It does not produce a “high” like another cannabis component called tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Pharmaceutical CBD for epilepsy does not have THC. It is FDA approved for use in two severe forms of childhood epilepsy, Dravet syndrome and Lennox-Gastaut syndrome, which do not respond well to other medications. Artisanal CBD is manufactured using varying techniques and contains variable amounts of CBD and THC.

“The use of medical cannabis to treat various medical conditions has grown in recent years. While not always legal, artisanal CBD has been available longer, so some people have been using it to treat epilepsy for years,” said study author Nathan T. Cohen, M.D., of Children’s National Hospital in Washington D.C., and a member of the American Academy of Neurology. “They may want to reconsider because our research indicates that pharmaceutical CBD may indeed be more effective than artisanal CBD.”

For the study, researchers reviewed the medical charts of 31 children and teens with an average age of 10 who were followed for an average age of one year. All had some form of epilepsy including 32% with Lennox-Gastaut syndrome and 6% with Dravet syndrome. Of the group, 22 were taking pharmaceutical CBD and nine were taking artisanal CBD. Researchers recorded medication doses, levels of CBD in the blood, seizure history and reduction in seizures with medication and side effects.

Those taking artisanal CBD had an average level of CBD in the blood of 31 nanograms per milliliter (ng/mL) compared to 124 ng/mL for those taking pharmaceutical CBD.

Researchers found children and teens taking artisanal CBD had a 70% increase in seizures during the study. Those taking prescription CBD had a 39% reduction in seizures.

However, 11 participants reported side effects. All were taking pharmaceutical CBD. Side effects included sleepiness, low appetite, nausea and diarrhea. Six of those participants stopped taking pharmaceutical CBD due to side effects.

“The difference in seizure control is dramatic and is definitely of concern since many people continue to use artisanal CBD,” said Cohen. “However, a limitation of our study is that it was small. More research is needed to see if similar results are found in larger groups of people.”

Another limitation of the study was that it was a look back at medical records. It did not involve participants who were given either pharmaceutical or artisanal CBD and then followed over time.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Ythan] * 3
    #26511619 - 03/01/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Was wondering what they meant by "artisinal CBD" but this is all they say:

Quote:

Artisanal CBD is manufactured using varying techniques and contains variable amounts of CBD and THC.




So I assume that means they are including tinctures and other CBD products then comparing them to pure CBD crystals.

This seems like a fairly pointless study, as obviously the pure CBD will be stronger dosage wise. They mention CBD blood levels but not the actual dosages used of pure or "artisanal" CBD which seems like the most important factor.

Quote:

Researchers found children and teens taking artisanal CBD had a 70% increase in seizures during the study. Those taking prescription CBD had a 39% reduction in seizures.




This part seems pretty suspicious to me, like they were trying to get this outcome from the start. What I want to know is what were these kids taking for seizures before hand and did they stop taking their meds for this study? As obviously the group taking larger doses of pure CBD will have the best reduction rate, but 70% increase sounds like they were taken off their seizure meds then given lower doses of CBD. Otherwise it doesn't make sense there would be any sizable increase let alone close to 70%...

Curious as to what they consider pharma CBD as well, any pure CBD crystals? Plenty of Hemp farms sell 99% pure CBD crystals, they can be found fairly cheap even. But people tend to agree that full spectrum products are the most effective, CBD alone is helpful for a more limited range of issues.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Edited by musiclover420 (03/01/20 05:40 PM)


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OfflineVP123
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: musiclover420]
    #26511648 - 03/01/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The study is preliminary and it is still yet to be presented at a conference. It's hard to evaluate without even knowing the methodology in detail. For sure it hasn't gone through strict peer review. At most just some low level of peer review in order to accept the abstract for a conference. It'd be interesting to see more details of the study as well as the founding source of the study.


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Offlinesk8fast
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: VP123] * 2
    #26512006 - 03/01/20 09:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

VP123 said:
The study is preliminary and it is still yet to be presented at a conference. It's hard to evaluate without even knowing the methodology in detail. For sure it hasn't gone through strict peer review. At most just some low level of peer review in order to accept the abstract for a conference. It'd be interesting to see more details of the study as well as the founding source of the study.



You can use sci-hub.tw to read the full version of any study by putting the DOI number into the engine


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OfflineVP123
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: sk8fast]
    #26512287 - 03/02/20 04:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sk8fast said:
You can use sci-hub.tw to read the full version of any study by putting the DOI number into the engine




Thank you. That's useful. But for this specific study there is no DOI yet.


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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: VP123]
    #26512328 - 03/02/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The big difference between the two types of cbd they are referring to is that most “artisanal Cbd “ isn’t water soluble and your body will only absorb a small percentage of what you are ingesting.

Depending on your ROA, like oral ingestion , would require your cbd to be water soluble to be effective.

There are claims that when smoking cbd isolate , the heat is actually converting it to CBN.  And CBN has different healing properties compared to CBD.  Which may not be as effective for reducing seizures.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Big Worm]
    #26512475 - 03/02/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I wonder what qualifies as artisanal CBD, where they sourced it, and what its constituents were.

Obviously the doses weren't equivalent, if the same blood levels of CBD are reached there is no reason why it wouldn't be just as effective unless the artisanal CBD wasn't just CBD and also contained active levels of THC and other agonists.


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OfflineVP123
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Big Worm]
    #26513071 - 03/02/20 03:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Big Worm said:
The big difference between the two types of cbd they are referring to is that most “artisanal Cbd “ isn’t water soluble and your body will only absorb a small percentage of what you are ingesting.






Maybe there is something else that people refer to as CBD. The chemical compound often referred to as CBD, whose IUPAC name is 2-[(1R,6R)-6-Isopropenyl-3-methylcyclohex-2-en-1-yl]-5-pentylbenzene-1,3-diol is insoluble in water regardless of origin. There should not be difference in its solubility, whether artisanal or not. However, it can be emulsified by other compounds and this can influence absorption. However, this is a lot of speculation since this report doesn't mention anything about the method of administration (or extraction in the case of the "artisanal" CBD).


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: VP123]
    #26513114 - 03/02/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

As someone who randomly started having frequent tonic clonics with lasting injury, I tried CBD first. It was highly reputed and expensive, but didn't do a thing. Tried a different brand, nothing.

I switched to vaping OR carts and have been on a clean streak for almost two months- compared to a violent seizure once a week.

Can't speak of the science, but I research and get the kinds that pertains to my condition(Yoda OG, Dogwalker, etc). I think the comprehensive effect is what helps.


Will never forget my neurologist's response when asking about CBD- 'It won't help but won't hurt.'
Apparently there is a multitude of studies for children, but not adults.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: VP123]
    #26513742 - 03/02/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

VP123 said:
Quote:

Big Worm said:
The big difference between the two types of cbd they are referring to is that most “artisanal Cbd “ isn’t water soluble and your body will only absorb a small percentage of what you are ingesting.






Maybe there is something else that people refer to as CBD. The chemical compound often referred to as CBD, whose IUPAC name is 2-[(1R,6R)-6-Isopropenyl-3-methylcyclohex-2-en-1-yl]-5-pentylbenzene-1,3-diol is insoluble in water regardless of origin. There should not be difference in its solubility, whether artisanal or not. However, it can be emulsified by other compounds and this can influence absorption. However, this is a lot of speculation since this report doesn't mention anything about the method of administration (or extraction in the case of the "artisanal" CBD).




Yeah I was thinking the same thing, if anything pure or "pharma" CBD seems like it would be the least water soluble compared to full spectrum oils/tinctures and other products that are less pure but seem best for the body.

When I was using a lot of pure cbd crystals I wondered about the effectiveness/bioavailablity quite a bit. Could definitely notice the effects at higher doses especially when already baked since it balances out the THC, but always wanted to try making some sort of alcohol tincture or something to take it sublingually.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: musiclover420]
    #26513806 - 03/02/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

While the original study I guess isn't published yet, I found this one which seems to mention "artisanal" cannabis as well. I am assuming that means homegrown but I have no fuckin clue :shrug2:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5767492/


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Invisiblepsilocyclops
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: sh4d0ws] * 1
    #26515211 - 03/03/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Hahaha.. huge surprise big pharma funded a study to promote the idea that a patentable product is several times more effective than a non-patentable plant medicine. What a load of horse shit. If there’s not money in it, big pharma will find a way


--------------------
You must have eaten, like, a hundred bucks worth of pot, and, like, 30 bucks worth of shrooms man.

2020 mystery seed indoor LED grow https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/846644


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: psilocyclops]
    #26517938 - 03/05/20 04:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I got some packets from Denver that say “Artisanal Shatter”. It’s really just good shatter, which obv isn’t FDA approved. I guess it means dispensary product etc

I mean, you can buy raw CBD crystal but maybe just with independent purity testing. Pharm testing is Supposed* to be much more thorough...

But! A lot of legit medications from China (most of our medicine) haven’t been FDA inspected at all lately. As I understand they don’t even visit the Chinese manufacturing plants anymore so they can produce whatever quality meds.

It’s like that high blood pressure pill valsartan that killed 81 people because it was loaded with a carcinogen as one of the inactives. The worst part is this was supposedly done on purpose


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Fractal420] * 1
    #26518936 - 03/05/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

For all we know it was from a gas station, or ordered online. There is so much variance in OTC CBD products this study is pointless, even moreso without knowing the exact constituents.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26520267 - 03/06/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I’d say about 90% of these articles are beyond pointless.

Though some are shocking and expose how fucked up things are

But yeah, what are you gonna do with that information. Who knows how pure the CBD you buy is. And don’t believe the whole “if it’s from a pharmacy, it must be tested”. It’s becoming more and more obvious that we know Very little about the meds we may be taking every single day and that they’re not even inspected for purity, etc

Particularly the 80% of medicine coming from China, who mostly makes the active ingredients.


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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Offlinedownlowfunk
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Fractal420]
    #26520454 - 03/06/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Artisinal? It's CBD extract. Imagine the native americans. One tribes messenger to another tribe Our chief says your CBD no good. Our tribes is better.
Other Tribes Messenger. Tell your Chief, our CBD is fine.


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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: downlowfunk]
    #26521040 - 03/06/20 05:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The synopsis of this is pure CBD isolate works better for seizures then CBD:THC extract.

Which is kind of weird study nobody claimed THC to be anti-seizure

also for these studies they probably take very young people and ween them off just like benzos. I got heat stroke in 118F weather and passed out and company claimed I had a seizure. They put me on Keppra and jesus side effects are insane. I'd rather be on benzos then seizure meds but benzos got the bad rep...Weened myself off and no seizure activity so this company essentially didn't want to get fucked for making us work in the heat and claimed it was a seizure but I have zero seizure activity.

3 MRI's nothing...



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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Gorlax]
    #26523342 - 03/08/20 04:34 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

In my state they mix em together for MMJ purposes with ratios like 2:1 1:1 or 20:1. The more thc the more expensive. The CBD is def high quality but it’s still used as kind of a filler. Since a 1:1 1g pen will only have 500mg thc

I’m really not a fan of vape pens, but bud and shatter I’m really excited to be able to buy legally, till then there’s a pretty extensive black market


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Fractal420]
    #26552904 - 03/23/20 11:21 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I have seizures every day. No CBD "product" from a lab has worked for me at all. Iv'e tried many. Only my home made hemp elixer's made from local organic hang dried hemp seem to help a little. The main way CBD helps with seizures is to potentiate the effect of THC. THC is very helpful at mitigating frequency and intensity of seizures.


--------------------
Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


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Offlinemeepins
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Re: Study finds artisanal CBD not as effective as pharmaceutical CBD for reducing seizures [Re: Nichrome]
    #26611387 - 04/18/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yea, seriously what a surprise big pharma at it again.


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