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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Beginning to doubt my tek....
#26519816 - 03/05/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok so for reasons unknown, It has been months, and literally countless monotubs since I have been able to produce uncontaminated fruits. Im looking to the community to critique my tried and true tek. Something is wrong and I can not identify it.
Im dying over here. Like, about to quit all together.
Im going to apologize in advance if this turns out really long but I intend to outline what i do basically from front to back.
Lets start with this.
CULTURE/SPAWN:
WBS - I put the WBS in a large pot, fill with water, remove all the sunflower seeds, and any corn and other stuff i see. Pour, refill, and repeat until water runs clear. Let sit for 24 hours, then simmer for 30 min. Strain then dry.
I use LC. Since this whole fiasco, I have tested my LC on agar plates and it seems to be just fine. SO, i am pretty confident that my culture is good. However, I have a 3rd transfer clean Agar plate (culture is about the size of nickel) that i can make a new LC if needed. The first plate LC>Agar showed signs of bacteria (expected) but 2nd transfer eliminated that and letting the myc reach the size of a quarter before next transfer has never shown any mean green contams.
1qt wide mouth spawn jars always look beautiful and smell good when spawning.
I inject LC into the jars in a SAB, i always do one extra for G2G going forward. Once I have my first round, I will do G2G from that extra jar for multiple runs assuming there is no contam. 1 full size mono takes 6qt spawn, 1 brick coir 2qt verm, my "shoebox" bins take 3 qt spawn 1/2 brick coir, 1 qt verm.
I have gone 5+ new rounds of G2G 6qt of spawn by always using 6qt jars and an extra pint jar for the next G2G with no issue.
Substrate: I have ALWAYS used my own variant of the bucket tek. I use Zoo Med Eco Earth Coco fiber and vermiculite. Stuff comes from the pet store. Its the only thing I've ever used in YEARS of doing this. 1 brick + 4-5 qt tap water. I use my PC. I bring my water to a heavy rolling boil in the PC, drop the brick in with 2 qt verm and put the lid on. (lately, Ive been using smaller tubs. Almost shoebox size to minimize losing everything to contams) So.... I cut the brick in half and add 1 qt verm. I USED to just bring it to a heavy boil, drop the shit in, turn off the burner, put the lid on and twist it shut; wrap the PC with a towel folded in half long ways. I would let it sit for 45 min, open, stir, let sit for another 45 min. Pour into a tub lined with a garbage bag while hot. Trim the bag for height, put the lid on and let it sit until its cools enough (80 degrees or lower) to not damage/kill spawn.
Since I have run into my consistent issues, I have been using a meat therm to make sure it never drops below 140. If it does get to 140, I will turn the burner back on, open the PC stir it so the bottom doesnt burn and let it get back up to 170+. Sometimes it will hit 200 for a couple min but never more than 10 minutes. I let it pasteurize for 90 min. After the 90 min I pour into the tub, and also move the meat therm to it. When it its in the tub, i will wait until it hits 90 degress in the center then add spawn.
MONOTUB: I use modified mono's with 2 holes on each long side about 3.5/4 inch from the bottom so the bottom of the hole is just above the substrate. On the short side, I have 1 hole on each side near the handles
SPAWNING: I will use a bedroom. Actually my kids room. I only get her on the weekends, and when she is not here, the door stays closed. My cats dont go in there, there is no cigarettes smoked in there. Its the cleanest, most non-lived in room in my house. I will close and cover the heat register, make sure the fan is off and put the tub and spawn in there to cool. When Im about to go in there, I will spray the entire room down with lysol and leave the room for 10/15 min to let settle. I dont use gloves. I dont change my clothes. Never have. Never been an issue. I will "Doctor wash" my hands. Basically up to my elbows with warm water and Dawn dish soap, making sure to scrub any little hairs off my arms. I rinse well but do not dry my hands. I go into the room, pour all my spawn jars in and mix it up. I then put the lid on and leave it alone.
FRUITING: I've always kept the holes taped until I would see the first pin, then untape the holes and stuff with Poly fill (Walmart Pillow stuffing) at that point, there wasnt any fanning, or misting. it was just a matter of letting the stuff grow. This has ALWAYS worked. I have a small room built. By small I mean its big enough to hold 4 full size monotubs, a light, a thermostat, and a heater. The area is insulated with carpet padding and wrapped in visqueen, its basically thick plastic wrap. Used as a vapor barrier if you ask the guy at the hardware store. Think "dexter's kill room" I can sterilize this area and minimize environmental contaminants.
THE PROBLEM: Ok, now to the good stuff. Every time I spawn a tub it contams. It will fully colonize, but before a pin shows its face, a small green spot appears. Every. Fucking. Time. I tried salt paste covering it, but it always takes over and I never get a pin.
THE QUESTIONS: I have wondered if the lack of FAE has introduced a too humid environment that induced a mildew-y environment and introduced the trych. On my last box, I said fuck it, and only left it taped for a few days, then changed my mind, pulled the tape and lightly filled all the wholes with poly fill. The top of the sub was actually drying out so I know there was air flow. Still the trych came..... WTF?
They say if your spawn is clean and your sub it properly pasteurized, you can spawn the thing outside. That contams dont matter. I feel like my spawn and sub are both good, and even in the cleanest environment I can make it contams. Every fucking time. And always when the bin is fully colonized but before the first pin pops.
Should I "properly pasteurize my sub" which i have seen teks where peopleput the sub in quart jars and put in a PC to boil... Aka not pressure cook them, but cook them.
Should I be wearing gloved when I spawn my sub?
Should I leave the stuffed with polyfill or micropore tape from the beginning (Spawn to fruiting condition)
Should I sterilize the polyfill or micropore tape prior to putting it in/over the holes of the tub?
Should I pasteurize the sub longer or hotter?
Should i not open the pasteurization container? Is opening it before the 90 minute mark allowing contams to get in there and take hold?
I dont know. Im fucking dying over here. Im so frustrated. i have 9 qt of spawn thats about to be ready and I feel like its all going to go to waste....
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woofwoof
such mushrooms!



Registered: 01/04/19
Posts: 1,127
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: maniac1886]
#26519864 - 03/06/20 01:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Is it possible that your grow area has some contam that are lingering on your walls, carpets, etc?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: woofwoof]
#26519881 - 03/06/20 01:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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you were very detailed in everything except how you make your liquid culture and what you are using for filters, I just went through a similar situation and traced it back to my cultures which would look great and even fruit fine if left alone and they colonized grain fine bit once spawned would show green at full colonization, my filters were failing on my no pours and my cultures were mingled with penicillium/ aspergillus
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cli_hlt
Beshroomed



Registered: 10/29/11
Posts: 462
Loc: EU
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: cronicr]
#26519906 - 03/06/20 02:38 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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What kind of contamination are you getting?
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: cli_hlt]
#26519943 - 03/06/20 04:03 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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LC is my opinion...this is where you will find the culprit.
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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: woofwoof]
#26520129 - 03/06/20 07:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
woofwoof said: Is it possible that your grow area has some contam that are lingering on your walls, carpets, etc?
My grow area is a small plastic wrapped room that I built. I have the entire room wrapped in plastic wrap so I can wipe it all down between grows.
Edited by maniac1886 (03/06/20 07:45 AM)
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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: cli_hlt]
#26520131 - 03/06/20 07:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
cli_hlt said: What kind of contamination are you getting?
Trych? The mean green contam. Every time
Edited by maniac1886 (03/06/20 07:47 AM)
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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... *DELETED* [Re: maniac1886]
#26520132 - 03/06/20 07:34 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by maniac1886
Reason for deletion: .
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rickyswamps
Bad Apple



Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,192
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: maniac1886]
#26520135 - 03/06/20 07:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, the LC's are a probable issue. Try switching to agar to grains. Post pics of your plates and grains so people can give opinions on them. You also don't need to completely seal your tubs during colonization.
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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: maniac1886]
#26520136 - 03/06/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: you were very detailed in everything except how you make your liquid culture and what you are using for filters, I just went through a similar situation and traced it back to my cultures which would look great and even fruit fine if left alone and they colonized grain fine bit once spawned would show green at full colonization, my filters were failing on my no pours and my cultures were mingled with penicillium/ aspergillus
I don't use filters on my liquid culture. I have a self healing injection port made from red RTV silicone. I boil the lid and jar for 20 min before I make the liquid culture to ensure the inside of the dab of silicone reaches a sterilizing temp.
Edited by maniac1886 (03/06/20 07:48 AM)
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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: maniac1886]
#26520138 - 03/06/20 07:38 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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So maybe I drop a wedge of my clean plate into some grain and G2G from that master and try a run of spawn made from agar instead of LC?
Seems like if there were trych spores in the lc, they would have manifested on the plates at some point?
Edited by maniac1886 (03/06/20 07:39 AM)
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LadysKnight
Hello Ladies


Registered: 10/09/15
Posts: 1,670
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: maniac1886]
#26520143 - 03/06/20 07:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Remove the LC and the g2g. Use agar wedges.
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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: rickyswamps]
#26520148 - 03/06/20 07:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
rickyswamps said: Yeah, the LC's are a probable issue. Try switching to agar to grains. Post pics of your plates and grains so people can give opinions on them. You also don't need to completely seal your tubs during colonization.
Should I just polyfill or micropore tape the holes right from the start?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: maniac1886]
#26520426 - 03/06/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was talking about your grain jar filters. bit yes to get back on track go to agar to grain, anytime you see a contam on a plate go a minimum of three transfers after you think it's clean
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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shevanel
Gone til November


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: cronicr]
#26520431 - 03/06/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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getting a liquid to work like others ive seen is going to be the death of me.
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maniac1886
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Beginning to doubt my tek.... [Re: cronicr]
#26520434 - 03/06/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: I was talking about your grain jar filters. bit yes to get back on track go to agar to grain, anytime you see a contam on a plate go a minimum of three transfers after you think it's clean
My filter tek on my spawn jars is that I repurposed my BRF lids. 4 small holes drilled for inoc points, covered with micropore tape prior to being Pc'ed. I also leave the tin foil over the lids during colonization to minimize contams falling directly onto the lids.
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