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OfflineRandalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 2
    #26518113 - 03/05/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm excited for you! It was an anxious time when I started my mush cult journey, so many questions and doubts flying around my head. I worried way too much about things I shouldn't and not enough about things I should. But I was hooked the second I saw my first but of growth. You are so close to that moment right now when all of your researching and prep pays off. When you finally stop second guessing and breathe a sigh of relief that you didn't mess everything up. Congrats on officially starting your journey! It only gets better from here. Can't wait to see\hear how the noc'ing goes.


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Randalf the Grey
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A wizard is never late..........but I can try
Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries
LAGM2O2O Grow Log
Genesis II: Electric Boogaloo - The Restart


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey] * 2
    #26518184 - 03/05/20 08:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Looks great.

I used to do my lids rubber down. But I have found that upside-down helps to get the lids off post colonizing. I think it is in the RR videos. Haven't watched the videos in 10 years. That was before YouTube and you had to download them via zipfiles.


Edited by Sockadin (03/05/20 08:26 AM)


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin] * 1
    #26518204 - 03/05/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Logical Chaos, I was following the instructions in the video, which specifically states to put the rubber side up, which basically means the inner lids are upside down LOL. Refer to the first video in the series, at 06:30. I think it explains it in another place too, but if you watch the video you’ll see that clearly he puts those lids upside down. The reason he gives in the video, is because when you want to take the lids off, to birth the cakes, it’s supposed to be easier to remove those lids with the rubber side up.

I’m out, and on my phone right now LOL, so I’ll respond to everybody else when I get home in about an hour.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26518228 - 03/05/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Makes sense for sure.

It is difficult to get those lids off. I usually pop em off using the edge of a lid ring. Works pretty well.

But regardless, it will work as Roger Rabbit intended :thumbup:


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OfflineRandalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26518262 - 03/05/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Definitely more than one way to do some of these things for various reasons. It will all make more sense later. For now just trust RR wouldn't lead you astray.
Also, I use voice to text like all the damn time. Love it, though it isn't perfect so I end up with a lot of typos sometimes. No worries, most of us are pretty good at context. But if you ever see me censor my curse words on here,you can bet I was using voice to text. Haha


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Randalf the Grey
Lost in the right direction
A wizard is never late..........but I can try
Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries
LAGM2O2O Grow Log
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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey] * 1
    #26518292 - 03/05/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Hey folks, just a quick question before I respond to individual posts I missed. I left the jars, with the tin foil covers, in the stock pots, with the lids for about 2 hours. I just took them out now, and set them aside so they can maybe cool a drop quicker. Though I will stress I'm in no hurry. I can wait as long as needed. Anyway, I left them like this for now, unless you guys tell me they need to go back into the stock pots and be covered, of course.



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OfflineRandalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 2
    #26518312 - 03/05/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

That is perfectly fine. No problem.
The biggest concerns in taking them out are A: cracking the glass do to sudden temp change(avoided about handling gently and avoiding contact with cold water\surfaces. Not a huge concern)
B: condensation. Condensation always forms on the warm side of a temp differential, in this case, the inside of the glass. Again, not a huge issue. If there is a ton of moisture inside when they are cool, you can just wait a bit longer for it to clear up a little.
Neither of these things should make you put the jars back in the pot, just wanted to give you a bit of an explanation as to why.


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Randalf the Grey
Lost in the right direction
A wizard is never late..........but I can try
Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries
LAGM2O2O Grow Log
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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26518318 - 03/05/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Personally, i dont like to handle them at all while they cool, for sterile reasons. Bur since its got that dry verm layer, should be fine.

Juet make sure u wait at least 8 hours. Do not inject jars early! I learned that the hard way :nonono:


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26518355 - 03/05/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Personally, i dont like to handle them at all while they cool, for sterile reasons. Bur since its got that dry verm layer, should be fine.

Juet make sure u wait at least 8 hours. Do not inject jars early! I learned that the hard way :nonono:




Oh okay, glad you told me this! I was just going to wait until they felt cool and room temp to the touch. I do have a minor issue I have to contend with. I'm have plans to go a group bicycle ride at about 5:00PM EST. 8 hours after I turned off the burners on the stove, would be 5:40PM. My question is twofold: Should I cancel my ride and see if my riding partners can go tomorrow instead? This way I can start the inoculation at about 6:00 PM.

Or would it be all right if I inoculate them after the ride? Usually we do a lot of miles, but tonight we're probably only going for about 25-30 miles. Meaning I can be back, say between 7:30PM and 8:30PM. Maybe a little later if someone gets a flat tire or needs some other minor repair, which happens.

8:00 PM would represent about 10 hours and 20 minutes, as opposed to the 8 hours you suggested. Of course, I would worry about contamination leaving them out for 10 or more hours without inoculating.

So should I maybe put the foil covers back on top of the jars to prevent anything from getting in and possibly through the Verm layer?


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OfflineRandalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26518376 - 03/05/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Waiting til after bike ride will be fine. Remember, they are going to sit in pretty much those same conditions for the next few weeks. Once you noc them, they are no more safe from contams than they are right at this moment. Nor are they more vulnerable now than they will be then. A layer of foil on top will not hurt, but with tape and verm, nothing is getting through there unless it is introduced. Contams don't crawl or burrow through the verm so at this point either all is well or contams are already present (survived steaming). Until you insert a needle into it, not much is going to change the contents of the jars at this stage.
Enjoy your bike ride, noc jars with that nice riding high. Win win.


I do have a question about the tape you have on top of the jars. I believe you said micropore tape, I just wanted to double-check that it is in fact micropore tape and not the plastic kind of med tape. Just looked weird in the pic. However, from what I have seen you were following literally word for word so I have no reason to think that you have made a mistake. I just thought I would double-check. The plastic tape will not allow enough gas exchange for colonization.
I use micropore tape on my grain jars. One layer is not enough to keep contams out but three or four layers is. However again with PF Tek, the verm layer is what is keeping contams out, so one layer is fine as a physical barrier for the verm layer.


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Randalf the Grey
Lost in the right direction
A wizard is never late..........but I can try
Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries
LAGM2O2O Grow Log
Genesis II: Electric Boogaloo - The Restart


Edited by Randalf the Grey (03/05/20 10:52 AM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26518384 - 03/05/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Waiting more than 8 hours is fine. 8 hours is basically a rough window of time for cool down. If the jar is cool to the touch, the inside might be still too warm for the spores. 6 hours is probably enough but 8 hours is a safer bet i would argue.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey]
    #26518414 - 03/05/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, Logical Chaos!

Quote:

Randalf the Grey said:
Waiting til after bike ride will be fine. Remember, they are going to sit in pretty much those same conditions for the next few weeks. Once you noc them, they are no more safe from contams than they are right at this moment. Nor are they more vulnerable now than they will be then. A layer of foil on top will not hurt, but with tape and verm, nothing is getting through there unless it is introduced. Contams don't crawl or burrow through the verm so at this point either all is well or contams are already present (survived steaming). Until you insert a needle into it, not much is going to change the contents of the jars at this stage.
Enjoy your bike ride, noc jars with that nice riding high. Win win. 




I had a feeling this was true, Randalf, but I was literally leaving nothing to chance. Great to know that even if my ride goes over a few hours it should be all right.

Quote:

Randalf the Grey said:
I do have a question about the tape you have on top of the jars. I believe you said micropore tape, I just wanted to double-check that it is in fact micropore tape and not the plastic kind of med tape. Just looked weird in the pic. However, from what I have seen you were following literally word for word so I have no reason to think that you have made a mistake. I just thought I would double-check. The plastic tape will not allow enough gas exchange for colonization.
I use micropore tape on my grain jars. One layer is not enough to keep contams out but three or four layers is. However again with PF Tek, the verm layer is what is keeping contams out, so one layer is fine as a physical barrier for the verm layer.




No, its definitely micropore tape. Its paper, of course, and lol I am actually so paranoid that after reading your post I double checked. Of course I threw the packaging away days ago, but luckily, "Micropore" was written inside the cylindrical cardboard that houses the tape. I think the reason it looks weird in the pics is that I had just taken them out of the covered stock pots with water still at the bottom under the steamers, and I had just taken all the makeshift tin foil coverings off. So the jars, especially the tops, were soaking wet. Thanks for looking out!


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26518431 - 03/05/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Just dropping this in here, but there's really nothing I can do about it at this point. I am concerned because I just looked at my jars, and I may not have mixed the substrate quite enough. Some of the jars I can see some areas of white, which is obviously the BRF. Is there a trick to know if you haven't mixed up the substrate enough before putting it into the jars?

Edit: Here:






Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/05/20 11:34 AM)


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OfflineRandalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26518492 - 03/05/20 11:56 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah looks like a couple clumps of BRF but nothing that will compromise the grow. Cubensis are some incredibly resilient organisms. Aside from a few big ones, it's actually kinda hard to mess them up.
Forgive me if I keep telling you things you already know. I just truly loved learning and sharing information. The purpose of the BRF is nutrition and the Verm is just for moisture control. Without the verm, the brf couldn't\wouldn't hold enough moisture to keep from drying out before colonization completes. That bit of uneven distribution won't affect the overall moisture throughout the substrate. If one whole side of your jar looked like that, it would be a bigger problem. But I would like to think that of that were the case, you would have spotted it in time to fix, and if you didn't, then maybe it was for the best. Lol
Similarly, though unrelated to this issue, BRF jars are limited to half pints because the myc can only grow out from noc points. With grains, you can shake to redistribute the grains that are colonized which themselves act as noc points. So the number of points grows exponentially with each shake. This is why a qt or more of grain can colonize in the same or less time than a half pint BRF jar.

I only add this because when I was starting out on PF Tek I wondered quietly to myself about this for some time. I hadn't seen anybody doing a brf jar larger than a half pint and I couldn't figure out why, but didn't want to ask because I felt there was a reason why that I was missing. It wasn't until I read this by chance that it clicked and I understood.


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Randalf the Grey
Lost in the right direction
A wizard is never late..........but I can try
Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries
LAGM2O2O Grow Log
Genesis II: Electric Boogaloo - The Restart


Edited by Randalf the Grey (03/05/20 11:57 AM)


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26518603 - 03/05/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Great info, Randalf!

Here is a pre-inoculation question. I decided to go with Sockdin's advice back on page 6 of this thread. He had suggested that even though I am going to try (and probably not succeed lol) to inoculate 24 jars with 10cc's, that I should go half and half with the two strains the site sponsor sent me. I purchased one at full price, which was Golden Teacher, and mentioning shroomery.org to them netted me an extra random syringe from their overstock. Turns out that was some strain called Costa Rico. Anyway, Sockadin suggested I do half and half of both strains. I have other inoculation questions before I start, but let's stick with this one for now. Is it permissible to label my jars by using a sharpie to write on the microspore tape? Here, I have a pint mason jar I use sometimes in extracting LSA from MG and HBW seeds, so I used this to illustrate what I mean. Oh, and the four dots represent the four holes on my half pint jars. I haven't written anything on the jars, but I would like to label them, out of curiosity, and for further learning, to see how each strain grows. Is this something I can do? Alternatively, I could also just label 12 of the jars, since I will know by default what the other 12 unlabeled jars are.



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OfflineRandalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26518673 - 03/05/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

My advice is stick with your thinking and label EVERYTHING. I have done it to myself more times than I would like of thinking "I'll remember what this is" or "what date I did this" or whatever lie I tell myself. It's not worth the time saved. Labeling won't hurt, not labeling might.
As for labeling, it's really your preference. Writing on mp tape is fine. I always avoided writing directly over the holes as a precaution. Writing on jar is simpler. It doesn't seem like much but tearing off lots of little pieces of tape can be quite tedious. Sharpie can be wiped off with Isopropyl alcohol or acetone. I also sometimes use dry erase markers to mark growth on the side of the jar so I can just wipe it off with my hand and remark as the growth...grows. I wouldn't recommend dry erase for labeling or you could accidentally wipe it off and end up with an unlabeled jar.
Masking or painters tape works great also. The big positive for this method is transferring. I label tape on the jar, or even agar plate, then as it goes from agar, to grain, to tub, I just peel the tape off and place it on the new container. No need for relabeling or wiping labels off old jars. For your case, you could move label tape from jars to fruiting chambers, but with way more jars than sgfc, not really a big selling point.

Again, any variation that works for you work fine. As I got more into this and started doing more jars at different times I did notice an aspect I hadn't thought of; how you look at the jars in storage. Meaning, if you will be looking down at the tops of them from above, label the top. If you will be looking at the kinda head on or at eye level, label the sides. Sucks having to tilt or pick up each jar to see the label.
As for how to label, again no right way and up to your preference. I use letters first for varient, then 4 numbers for date it was noc'd and then add symbols, numbers, letters to indicate anything special about it. Example: 3 jars of GT noc'd today would be GT0305A B and C. The pic with the ? came from an unlabeled agar plate. 99% sure it was GT, but couldn't be certain....


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Randalf the Grey
Lost in the right direction
A wizard is never late..........but I can try
Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries
LAGM2O2O Grow Log
Genesis II: Electric Boogaloo - The Restart


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26518707 - 03/05/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You can label them any way you like. I prefer the way you did it there.

Also edit note. I mix my Verm and BRF dry and really get in there are stir, stir ,stir... Then I add my water. Seems to mix better.


Edited by Sockadin (03/05/20 03:18 PM)


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin] * 1
    #26518808 - 03/05/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26519170 - 03/05/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I apologise for the steam cooker clamp idea, I was imagining clips or a weight of some sort but in hindsight realised it sounded like wood clamps/vices. I have an old steamer where the lid is not very flush and was going to try sealing it better in a similar fashion before finding my PC would work.

And sockadin, I said sterilize the nail for puncturing holes, not flame sterilization. Said take a shower immediately prior to nude inoculation, and I was agreeing with you that pf tek needed the extra week as opposed to the grains.

Best of luck lsa!


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Demetrius18]
    #26519187 - 03/05/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Demetrius18 said:
I apologise for the steam cooker clamp idea, I was imagining clips or a weight of some sort




Like I said, I'm not Wile E. Coyote, so that one wasn't gonna happen.

Okay, I just got back from my bicycle ride, and I am going to inoculate in a little while, but I have a question before I start. It involves how much to inoculate. Truth is, this may not get answered before I want to start, but I want to prepare for inoculation by taking a shower, putting on clean clothes, getting my hair up inside a doo-rag, since human hair carries a lot of mocro-organisms.

So I have about an hour before I start. Maybe a little less. SO if this doesn't get answered in time, I'll just start with what I have.

Its about how far I should stretch my syringes. I have one Golden Teacher and One Costa Rico. I would like to try and get all 24 jars inoculated with 5 cc's from each hypo. But I am thinking this is unrealistic to the point of being perhaps delusional. So how much should I be shooting for?

I did a little math, and since 1cc is equal to 20 drops, 10 cc's of course are 200 drops. So since I have 20 cc's in total and would like to try and only use 10cc's, I would have to basically use a mere 8 drops per jar, which amounts to.........................wait for it.................2 drops per hole.

I guess my real question is, even if I can get this level of precision, which is unlikely, would this even be enough to inoculate all that substrate? Maybe I should be setting the bar a little lower then? I would like to come out of this with a decent amount left. Hell, maybe I will do another grow with whatever is left in 4-6 weeks after I birth the 24 cakes?

Thoughts?

Edit: Actually, you know what I'm thinking? I have been up since 3:00AM, and after bouncing all over the walls getting all of this grow ready, a ton of errands, lifting weights, and this bicycle ride, I am nowhere close to being at my best. Would it be a horrible idea if I just waited until the morning to inoculate when I'm fresh, rested, and my brain isn't spinning around at near light speed? From what Randalf said, I am inferring that doing it first thing in the morning shouldn't be a problem, but I don't want to make that assumption. But honestly, I think I have a far better chance of screwing up in my present state than after a night's sleep.


Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/05/20 05:48 PM)


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