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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26516588 - 03/04/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So, just dropping this in here. I am still waiting for the second steamer so I can do two stock pots of jars. Before making the substrate and filling up my jars, I'll wait until the steamer comes, either tonight of tomorrow.
Meanwhile, I took another small step while I wait. Here are all 24 jars with four inoculation holes each, and the inner jar lids upside down, as I'm supposed to have done.

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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26516621 - 03/04/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your pics gave me PF tek flashbacks, aahhhhhhh
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Randalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: InfiniteDreams] 1
#26516639 - 03/04/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well done brother. Looking good. You are on the right track. Your mise en place is too notch so far and you are asking ALL the questions, and doing so before you start, which is a good mindset to be in. If I recall you mentioned printing out teks and notes and that is awesome. I write all the teks and ratios and such that I use in a book. I just like writing and the act of writing helps me remember and absorb info but the idea is the same. Shroomery is a great resource with immense amount of knowledge, but it may not always be here. Keep that info safe cause you may rely on it one day.
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey]
#26516686 - 03/04/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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That’s actually a really good idea, thanks, Randall the Grey! I think after I inoculate the drawers, and I have 4 to 6 week downtime, I think I’m gonna do just what you’re suggesting, and actually create notebooks or notes for all of this at least on my computer.
Here’s two questions:
1. If my steamer comes tonight, then I’m going to jump right in and create the substrate, put it in all 24 jars, and sterilize them. My question is, the videos for this Tell say to leave the jars in the stock parts until they come to room temperature. But a lot of people on the forum say overnight. So should I leave them overnight? And if so, should I leave the stock pots with jars and water on the bottom of the pot covered while they cool?
2. A lot of people in this thread said that I don’t have to flame sterilize the needle before every single jar. They said I could do every other jar. But I’m not sure if this is a good idea. Since I am inoculating 4 holes in every jar, is it really safe to only flame sterilize every other jar?
Thanks!
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Randalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26516713 - 03/04/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Overnight\till room temp are often used synonymously. It will likely take a few hours (3 or 4, maybe 5) so many people find it easier to run the cycle before bed, then when they wake up they are ready to go, instead of running the jar, then just waiting around for them. Either way is fine as long as they have cool sufficiently. There are a few reasons why this is important. Highest on that list is cube spores do not handle high temp well and the inside of the jar\sub can remain hotter than the outside of the jar. Noc'ing a jar that the inside has not cooled enough will kill your spores. When I did PF Tek I would simply out jars\water in pot, cover with lid, bring to boil for 2 hours(I went a bit longer than 90 just to be safe), then killed the heat and walked away. Just let it cool naturally and it will be fine regardless if it's over night or just until cool.
As for the needle, I don't want you to think I am saying you must do this, this is just my thinking on the matter. I also used 4 holes per jar, but regardless of number, the idea is that each jar is an island. You don't want to introduce any unwanted organisms to the ecosystem so you would take precautions to prevent transporting any between the islands. For this reason, I always flame between jars. It may be overkill but it takes 5 seconds and could safe a jar. Even if jar one is safe, if you make a handling mistake while noc'ing jar one, a flame before jar 2 could save it.
If you want to see my Book of Genesis, as I started calling my note\log book, check out the link in my signature. It's just pic of my notes instead typing it all out. If you hold the book normally and flip through the pages, the front of each page is my grow log. If you flip the book over to the back and upside down (rotate vertically and horizontally) and flip through the front of each page are Teks and Ratios to reference back to. Also started color coding since not just myco teks are included.
Again, great job man and keep it up. You are well on your way.
Edited by Randalf the Grey (03/04/20 03:27 PM)
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey]
#26516731 - 03/04/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks Randalf!! I will definitely check out your links, and I’m definitely going to flame sterilized between every jar. I actually have a weird Bunsen burner question. I took a lot of chemistry classes in undergraduate, but the Bunsen burner’s were all connected to gas. I’m not sure 100% how a set up this glass Bunsen burner I Purchased. Well actually I think all I really have to do is put the wick in the bottle fill it with 70% isopropyl, and pull the wick through the top piece.
what I’m not sure about, is I know the majority of wick that’s in the chamber gets soaked with alcohol, but do I leave the tip that’s coming through the top of the burner dry? I’m talking about the part that I actually light.
Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/04/20 03:39 PM)
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Randalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26516744 - 03/04/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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It will soak through to the tip, no worries. Yeah, that's all you need to do. It's similar to an oil lamp. I have a small version of one of those but it took a while to heat my scalpels so I started using a propane torch. Working on getting my induction coil set up now, but that's just for funsies and to remove open flame from my workspace. Totally not necessary.
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26516808 - 03/04/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Great to know, Randalf!
This may be a repeat question, but in the text part of RogerRabbit's videos, he says this:
Quote:
Part 2 of the brown rice flour technique (pf tek) picks up where part 1 left off. You’ll remove the sterilized jars from the steaming kettle, and once they’ve cooled to room temperature, inoculate them with either a mushroom spore syringe or liquid culture syringe using sterile procedures as demonstrated by well-known mycologist
I think you indirectly answered this above, but it doesn't sound like he thinks the jars should be left in the actual stock pots, but taken out and allowed to cool outside the pots? The reason I ask is because most people I think suggest leaving them in the pots, not only with the lid on, but with any water that hasn't boiled off still on the bottom. See my concern? Will the lid being on prevent the water, as it cools, from contaminating the substrate jars? Water is a very fertile solvent for microorganisms is my point.
Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/04/20 04:26 PM)
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Mr.Wizard
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26517829 - 03/05/20 01:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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LSA Woodrose,
It won't matter if you leave them in to cool, or take them out to cool. You'll have wrapped the tops in foil.
I think you've reached the point where you know enough to stop asking questions, and start doing. If you have questions, they will have been answered in other threads, search for them. It's time to follow the teks you've decided to follow.
I honestly think you're making this harder than it is. Stop being scared. I started on January 15th with spores to agar. I have multiple containers with pins, 47 days it took.
Also - no offense to that dude that gave you very long winded replies. Just do what TC's do, don't listen to folks like him and I that are new. There are a plethora of posts from them (TC's) that tell you everything you need to do.
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Randalf the Grey
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Mr.Wizard] 2
#26517850 - 03/05/20 02:15 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Foil really isn't even necessary. The PF Tek works because the verm layer keeps contams out. I have done pf jars with no micropore tape and removed foil immediately after PC and no issues. As long as you have a dry verm layer between open air and sub, you're good. Contams can't work their way down through the verm unless introduced on the needle or some other physical means. Foil is just there to keep water out of verm during steaming. After that, it just holds moisture longer.
I do not want to cause confusion though.you have a Tek, so follow that. You can always try other methods and things on your next runs. You're using a good one for sure. It won't lead you wrong.
Edited by Randalf the Grey (03/05/20 02:16 AM)
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Sockadin



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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Mr.Wizard] 1
#26517919 - 03/05/20 04:00 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Wizard said: LSA Woodrose,
It won't matter if you leave them in to cool, or take them out to cool. You'll have wrapped the tops in foil.
I think you've reached the point where you know enough to stop asking questions, and start doing. If you have questions, they will have been answered in other threads, search for them. It's time to follow the teks you've decided to follow.
I honestly think you're making this harder than it is. Stop being scared. I started on January 15th with spores to agar. I have multiple containers with pins, 47 days it took.
Also - no offense to that dude that gave you very long winded replies. Just do what TC's do, don't listen to folks like him and I that are new. There are a plethora of posts from them (TC's) that tell you everything you need to do.

Mr Wizard. You basically are saying, stop asking questions. If you have any questions use the search engine and only listen to a TC's.
How is any of what you are saying helpful? This website is a place to learn share and just chat about cultivation. If you don't like a thread, skip it and move on to the next one, but there is no reason to shut down someone's freedom to ask questions.
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26517922 - 03/05/20 04:11 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I need to ask a question, before I go any further. I just started filling the jars with the substrate. My understanding was that to make five jars, you need two cups of vermiculite, 1 cup of brown rice flour, 1 cup of water. So I decided to do 12 jars at a time. Which means that I needed to multiply everything by five to get to the 24. Which would be multiplied by 2.5 to get to the first 12 jars. So I did 5 cups of vermiculite, 2.5 cups of brown rice flour, and 2.5 cups of water. I mixed the vermiculite in the water first, is the video said got it nice and wet. Then I put the brown rice flour in and mixed it until it was “light and fluffy“ like the video said. Only now I filled my first 12 jars right up to the bottom of the threading and I’ve got way too much of the substrate left over. I think I might even be able to do all 24 jobs with this. Have any of you doing this found that you had a huge overage of substrate? Because I definitely do.
I’m using talk to text on my phone to post this, so sorry if there’s any text or grammatical and spelling errors. Want to just stop the process in the middle. But I’m gonna keep going. But if someone can chime in as soon as possible before I put these in the water pots which will probably be in about 20 minutes to a half hour, I would really appreciate it! Because I’m still at a stage now or if I have to dump everything and start over again I can do it.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26517931 - 03/05/20 04:17 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Makr sure u *lightly* pack down your substrate. If u dont, u may end up with fragmented cakes which is when the mycelium cant reach the material as the material in the jar is too airy (spaced out).
I dont have much leftovers cause i do small batches at a time using 2/3 cup verm, 14 cup water then 1/4 BRF. I find making smaller batches is best in my opinion.
Make sure your PF material is uniform and feels like damp sand in your hand. Thats when u know u mixed it right and in the right ratios.
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26517934 - 03/05/20 04:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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OK I don’t wanna go to my computer, and editing a post on my phone is a pain in the ass, so I’m just dropping this in response to myself LOL. I think I was panicking for nothing. I knew there would be some overage because 2 1/2 times that mixture is enough for 12.5 jars. I actually filled 15 and about and 1/3 jars. So I think I’m OK and my proportions were right. I was honestly afraid that I miss measured or something, which is easy to do when you doing conversions in your head. Sorry about the crazy text post it to this forum, and I’m going back to mixing with substrate to do the rest of it jars! I’ll read everybody’s responses above mine later. But right now I wanna get back to work.
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26517935 - 03/05/20 04:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks logical chaos! OK that may have been my mistake I didn’t pack down at all. My understanding was that you weren’t supposed to pack it and that you were only supposed to sort of lightly brush it. But I’m gonna pack it a little bit now that may account for the overage! Thanks again.
Oh, and it definitely feels like light, fluffy, moist sand!
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26517960 - 03/05/20 04:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, youre not supposed to pack it down. However, if the material is too loose, then u get a fragmentation problem. Its a light packing to make sure all the material in the jar are touching each other as a uniform cake. Keywords: Lightly/gently pack it down.
And if it feels like fluffy, moist sand, then u made it correctly! Congrats
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26518048 - 03/05/20 06:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Randalf the Grey said: Foil really isn't even necessary. The PF Tek works because the verm layer keeps contams out. I have done pf jars with no micropore tape and removed foil immediately after PC and no issues. As long as you have a dry verm layer between open air and sub, you're good. Contams can't work their way down through the verm unless introduced on the needle or some other physical means. Foil is just there to keep water out of verm during steaming. After that, it just holds moisture longer.
I do not want to cause confusion though.you have a Tek, so follow that. You can always try other methods and things on your next runs. You're using a good one for sure. It won't lead you wrong.
Oh, I was only using the foil for steaming/sterilizing. I wasn't intending to leave the foil on once that process is finished. This is precisely what RogerRabbit shows in his videos.
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Makr sure u *lightly* pack down your substrate. If u dont, u may end up with fragmented cakes which is when the mycelium cant reach the material as the material in the jar is too airy (spaced out).
I dont have much leftovers cause i do small batches at a time using 2/3 cup verm, 14 cup water then 1/4 BRF. I find making smaller batches is best in my opinion.
Make sure your PF material is uniform and feels like damp sand in your hand. Thats when u know u mixed it right and in the right ratios.
Thanks to your post, which I read while doing all this (thank God!) I lightly packed everything before using the paper towel to run across the inside lip of the jar and clean the substrate. RogerRabbit said this cleaning of the jar lip is necessary because it will prevent bacteria from growing into the inoculated substrate. I did this before putting the top layer of Vermiculite on, and smoothing it with my finger, without packing it down, as he also suggested. But thanks to your post, I had pretty much just enough substrate for all 24 jars, with very little left over.
So seriously, thank you again! I don't think its hyperbole to say that you may very well have saved my ass with this grow!
Everything seems good so far.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26518056 - 03/05/20 06:48 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sounds good mang. Yes, wiping the inner rim of the jar till its squeaky clean is very important! Infections can grow on material if theres some on that inner lip.
You have learned well young grasshoppa.
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LSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26518098 - 03/05/20 07:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Sounds good mang. Yes, wiping the inner rim of the jar till its squeaky clean is very important! Infections can grow on material if theres some on that inner lip.
You have learned well young grasshoppa.
Thank you, Master Chen Ming Kan. Wow, I can't believe that its coming up on 50 years since Kung Fu launched and so many people are still using Grasshoper as a nickname. What an awesome testament to David Carradine and the writers and producers!
___________________________________________________________________
Okay Update Time:
I am 01:45 into my two hour sterilizing. Thanks again to everyone who is helping me thought this. Particularly, today, Logical Chaos who I honestly think saved my sorry ass by telling me to lightly pack!
On a side note, thank Goddess for my having the presence of mind to have my iphone at the ready at my side and with this thread/page already loaded up in case I ran into trouble. Which obviously I did. Luckily, at the prep/substrate/jars/tape/foil/sterilizing stages I had the luxury of being able to simply press a single button and use talk to text to post my frantic questions and you guys really came through for me with timely answers I desperately needed at that time! So thanks again Logical Chaos, Randalf the Grey, and Sockadin! If this grow works out well, its in no small part to your help today. Not to mention all the others (who I didn't cite just now) who have chimed in to help me immeasurably in this thread over the last 7 pages and a little over 2 weeks ago. Without all of your help, I would totally have given up!
Some pics for posterity, and so you can see how I put to use all of the myriad of great advice I have gotten over the past few weeks here:
My Workspace - I chose my kitchen

Second batch of 12 Jars

Cheat Sheet - Obviously #3 was only partially right:

Steaming Jars - Two large Stock Pots - I only lifted the lid to check the continued boiling and to take these pics.

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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26518112 - 03/05/20 07:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Great pics. Very clean and organized.
The upside-down jar lids is a bit unusual but should work fine anyways 
And yes, that movie is a classic! Some movielines are timeless and remembered by many.
Well done. U took the instructions well
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