|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
|
Developing a specific phenotype 3
#26516436 - 03/04/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
As a project I’m trying to get a culture that grows a specific looking PE mushroom. I did an ms grow and cloned the kind I wanted, and just finished growing out the clone. There were a couple identical to the original, but you’re not supposed to clone a clone right? Idk why but I have that in my head.
So I swabbed spores from the identical one and put them on a plate with the plan being to run a shoebox from them hoping that phenotype will show up again to clone. Then repeat the whole process.
Is this the right way to go about it?
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
Camera93
We got dicks like Jesus



Registered: 08/15/18
Posts: 3,220
Last seen: 10 days, 12 hours
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a] 2
#26516442 - 03/04/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
From what I have read around here yea something like 25% increase of what you're looking for with each generation.
Clone, grow, print, clone, grow, print
-------------------- All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine. Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival Close your eyes, and do the best that you can
|
psycho_nauticus
Stranger



Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 779
Loc: Incognito on Cloud 9
Last seen: 7 months, 5 days
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
#26516702 - 03/04/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Damn I'm trying to get on your level lol
--------------------
|
Ignorantape
Mycophile


Registered: 01/30/20
Posts: 149
Loc: The Indigo Plateau
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
|
Presumably the second grow cycle is from the print taken in the first cycle, right?
|
Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Ignorantape]
#26516769 - 03/04/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Whatever is slowest is likely to be the way that sticks lol. Clone, grow, print, repeat is the way I'm rolling.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Ignorantape]
#26516773 - 03/04/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Nothing wrong with cloning a clone. Taking a biopsy from any mushroom would be the equivalent to taking a biopsy from a petri dish. Each subsequent biopsy narrows diversity and you wouldn't hesitate to do that from mycelium on a plate, mushrooms are mycelium.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Smartattack]
#26516777 - 03/04/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Ok cool. Yeah once the spores germinate I’m gonna grow them out and hopefully there’ll be more of that pheno to clone.
What happens if you clone a clone? I can’t imagine it making much difference unless you do it over and over.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
Magic Mushpoon
Stranger


Registered: 03/24/19
Posts: 104
Last seen: 8 months, 12 days
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Ignorantape]
#26516779 - 03/04/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Interesting. I thought that every time you grow from spores you are essentially starting the process over again. Can't you only achieve desired quality of your shrooms though isolation and cloning, not by growing from spores of mushrooms with the qualities you're looking for? Maybe this is different as you are looking for phenotype not genotype? I'd love a little explanation as to the thought process behind this.
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
#26516783 - 03/04/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
A.k.a said: What happens if you clone a clone? I can’t imagine it making much difference unless you do it over and over.
Well you took a clone and then grew it out to discover that it wasn't the only phenotype that was expressed, clone the fruit that resembles the original clone until you have what you want.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
|
|
I’m not positive but I think when you go back to spores the odds of seeing the certain genetics increase slightly. That’s why it takes so long to stabilize a variety and consistently get albinos or whatever. When you first start you’ll maybe get a couple of what you’re looking for and each generation they become a little more common.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
#26516790 - 03/04/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
That’s what my original thinking was, clone and clone until it’s all one pheno and then print and start all over.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
Magic Mushpoon
Stranger


Registered: 03/24/19
Posts: 104
Last seen: 8 months, 12 days
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
#26516799 - 03/04/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Ahh. I see. Do you have an estimate to how many generations will be needed to get a consistent phenotype? If it's a similar process to stabilizing a variety, I'm assuming it will be a lot.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
|
|
I’m not sure, I know they try to get to seven generations before it’s considered probably stable.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
themushroombloke



Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 448
Loc: Australia
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
#27929321 - 09/01/22 04:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah it seems like you have to repeatedly narrow the genetics like when royal bloodlines would do it until a physical disability show's up. that's why some of the human created mushroom phenotypes look so deranged from their natural counter parts. Wild Mushrooms have so many diverse spores built for many different environmental scenario's, which means they're built to be more adaptable in the wild. That way when they play the numbers game and broadcast all those millions of spores, then surely at least one of those spores will make it to fruit.
|
Crackatoa
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 5,399
Loc: Over by your Mama's house
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
|
|
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Crackatoa]
#27929551 - 09/01/22 07:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crackatoa said:

Yo let me in on some of that popcorn.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
Crackatoa
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 5,399
Loc: Over by your Mama's house
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#27929555 - 09/01/22 07:05 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Crackatoa]
#27929557 - 09/01/22 07:07 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Awwww yssss
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
B Traven
Stranger



Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,480
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 4 hours, 15 minutes
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: SirPsycho]
#27929588 - 09/01/22 07:32 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I think the way mushrooms grow in the wild is substantially different from what we're doing.
You've got dried-out cowpies that will occasionally revive after a storm, reviving a colony that then goes on to produce fruits, which drop spores on that and similar colonies, meaning many generations are intermingling their mycelium. Also, spore dispersal means that genetic material from a very wide area is intermingling on a regular basis.
So then if you're trying to narrow down the genetics, the first thing that's going to affect the effort is how far you are from a wild-type. I know I have no idea when it comes to the spores I'm working with. It's basically "X generations from wild plus the number of generations I personally have pushed through."
Sporulation resets the genetic clock, sure, but it can't recover genetics that have been removed from circulation via selective agar transfers and cloning. Unlike the situation in an open field, your cultures are never intermingling with new myc fromm some wind-blown spores. Even if you're only narrowing the gene pool by, say, 1% every time you do a clone-print-grow cycle, you'll eventually start to see the effects.
I really want to step up to do some conscious breeding at some point, but for now I'm just amusing myself with sequential cloning. I've got a few twice-and-thrice-cloned plates. I think it'd be fun to get up to like 4 or 5 sequential clones, then grow them out side by side.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: B Traven]
#27930076 - 09/02/22 04:33 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Daaaaamn this is old!
Look at all the TC tags now
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
themushroombloke



Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 448
Loc: Australia
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: B Traven]
#27932907 - 09/03/22 10:12 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
B Traven said: I think the way mushrooms grow in the wild is substantially different from what we're doing.
You've got dried-out cowpies that will occasionally revive after a storm, reviving a colony that then goes on to produce fruits, which drop spores on that and similar colonies, meaning many generations are intermingling their mycelium. Also, spore dispersal means that genetic material from a very wide area is intermingling on a regular basis.
So then if you're trying to narrow down the genetics, the first thing that's going to affect the effort is how far you are from a wild-type. I know I have no idea when it comes to the spores I'm working with. It's basically "X generations from wild plus the number of generations I personally have pushed through."
Sporulation resets the genetic clock, sure, but it can't recover genetics that have been removed from circulation via selective agar transfers and cloning. Unlike the situation in an open field, your cultures are never intermingling with new myc fromm some wind-blown spores. Even if you're only narrowing the gene pool by, say, 1% every time you do a clone-print-grow cycle, you'll eventually start to see the effects.
I really want to step up to do some conscious breeding at some point, but for now I'm just amusing myself with sequential cloning. I've got a few twice-and-thrice-cloned plates. I think it'd be fun to get up to like 4 or 5 sequential clones, then grow them out side by side.
I think this guy from Fresh from the Farm Fungi explains it well in some of his video's. Here's one that's a brief overview.
and here's a link to his awesome breeding project that took ages and he grew out all these different sectors on the agar and choose colonies that cross bred, extremely cool! here's the link for the playlist enjoy!!!!!
|
themushroombloke



Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 448
Loc: Australia
|
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
#27932912 - 09/03/22 10:14 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
A.k.a said: Daaaaamn this is old!
Look at all the TC tags now 
brains!!! it's alive!!
|
|