Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Developing a specific phenotype * 3
    #26516436 - 03/04/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

As a project I’m trying to get a culture that grows a specific looking PE mushroom. I did an ms grow and cloned the kind I wanted, and just finished growing out the clone. There were a couple identical to the original, but you’re not supposed to clone a clone right? Idk why but I have that in my head.

So I swabbed spores from the identical one and put them on a plate with the plan being to run a shoebox from them hoping that phenotype will show up again to clone. Then repeat the whole process.

Is this the right way to go about it?


--------------------
LAGM2020


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCamera93
We got dicks like Jesus
I'm a teapot


Registered: 08/15/18
Posts: 3,220
Last seen: 10 days, 12 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a] * 2
    #26516442 - 03/04/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

From what I have read around here yea
something like 25% increase of what you're looking for with each generation.

Clone, grow, print, clone, grow, print


--------------------
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine.

Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival
Close your eyes, and do the best that you can



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepsycho_nauticus
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 779
Loc: Incognito on Cloud 9
Last seen: 7 months, 5 days
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
    #26516702 - 03/04/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Damn I'm trying to get on your level lol


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineIgnorantape
Mycophile


Registered: 01/30/20
Posts: 149
Loc: The Indigo Plateau
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: psycho_nauticus]
    #26516722 - 03/04/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Presumably the second grow cycle is from the print taken in the first cycle, right?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSmartattack
C'mon man
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Ignorantape]
    #26516769 - 03/04/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Whatever is slowest is likely to be the way that sticks lol. Clone, grow, print, repeat is the way I'm rolling.


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Ignorantape]
    #26516773 - 03/04/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Nothing wrong with cloning a clone. Taking a biopsy from any mushroom would be the equivalent to taking a biopsy from a petri dish. Each subsequent biopsy narrows diversity and you wouldn't hesitate to do that from mycelium on a plate, mushrooms are mycelium.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Smartattack]
    #26516777 - 03/04/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Ok cool. Yeah once the spores germinate I’m gonna grow them out and hopefully there’ll be more of that pheno to clone.

What happens if you clone a clone? I can’t imagine it making much difference unless you do it over and over.


--------------------
LAGM2020


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMagic Mushpoon
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/24/19
Posts: 104
Last seen: 8 months, 12 days
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Ignorantape]
    #26516779 - 03/04/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting. I thought that every time you grow from spores you are essentially starting the process over again. Can't you only achieve desired quality of your shrooms though isolation and cloning, not by growing from spores of mushrooms with the qualities you're looking for? Maybe this is different as you are looking for phenotype not genotype? I'd love a little explanation as to the thought process behind this.


--------------------
:awesome: :awesome: :awesome:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
    #26516783 - 03/04/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
What happens if you clone a clone? I can’t imagine it making much difference unless you do it over and over.




Well you took a clone and then grew it out to discover that it wasn't the only phenotype that was expressed, clone the fruit that resembles the original clone until you have what you want.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Magic Mushpoon]
    #26516786 - 03/04/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I’m not positive but I think when you go back to spores the odds of seeing the certain genetics increase slightly. That’s why it takes so long to stabilize a variety and consistently get albinos or whatever. When you first start you’ll maybe get a couple of what you’re looking for and each generation they become a little more common.


--------------------
LAGM2020


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
    #26516790 - 03/04/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That’s what my original thinking was, clone and clone until it’s all one pheno and then print and start all over.


--------------------
LAGM2020


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMagic Mushpoon
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/24/19
Posts: 104
Last seen: 8 months, 12 days
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
    #26516799 - 03/04/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Ahh. I see. Do you have an estimate to how many generations will be needed to get a consistent phenotype? If it's a similar process to stabilizing a variety, I'm assuming it will be a lot.


--------------------
:awesome: :awesome: :awesome:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Magic Mushpoon]
    #26516821 - 03/04/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I’m not sure, I know they try to get to seven generations before it’s considered probably stable.


--------------------
LAGM2020


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblethemushroombloke
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 448
Loc: Australia
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
    #27929321 - 09/01/22 04:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Yeah it seems like you have to repeatedly narrow the genetics like when royal bloodlines would do it until a physical disability show's up. that's why some of the human created mushroom phenotypes look so deranged from their natural counter parts. Wild Mushrooms have so many diverse spores built for many different environmental scenario's, which means they're built to be more adaptable in the wild. That way when they play the numbers game and broadcast all those millions of spores, then surely at least one of those spores will make it to fruit.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCrackatoa
Stranger in a strange land
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 5,399
Loc: Over by your Mama's house Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: themushroombloke]
    #27929508 - 09/01/22 06:22 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:thisisgonnabegood:


--------------------

Crack's Tek's and Shit



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27929551 - 09/01/22 07:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
:thisisgonnabegood:



Yo let me in on some of that popcorn.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCrackatoa
Stranger in a strange land
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 5,399
Loc: Over by your Mama's house Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #27929555 - 09/01/22 07:05 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:compelling:


--------------------

Crack's Tek's and Shit



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27929557 - 09/01/22 07:07 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Awwww yssss

:aweyeah:


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineB Traven
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,480
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 4 hours, 15 minutes
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: SirPsycho]
    #27929588 - 09/01/22 07:32 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I think the way mushrooms grow in the wild is substantially different from what we're doing.

You've got dried-out cowpies that will occasionally revive after a storm, reviving a colony that then goes on to produce fruits, which drop spores on that and similar colonies, meaning many generations are intermingling their mycelium. Also, spore dispersal means that genetic material from a very wide area is intermingling on a regular basis.

So then if you're trying to narrow down the genetics, the first thing that's going to affect the effort is how far you are from a wild-type. I know I have no idea when it comes to the spores I'm working with. It's basically "X generations from wild plus the number of generations I personally have pushed through."

Sporulation resets the genetic clock, sure, but it can't recover genetics that have been removed from circulation via selective agar transfers and cloning. Unlike the situation in an open field, your cultures are never intermingling with new myc fromm some wind-blown spores. Even if you're only narrowing the gene pool by, say, 1% every time you do a clone-print-grow cycle, you'll eventually start to see the effects.

I really want to step up to do some conscious breeding at some point, but for now I'm just amusing myself with sequential cloning. I've got a few twice-and-thrice-cloned plates. I think it'd be fun to get up to like 4 or 5 sequential clones, then grow them out side by side.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 4 hours, 2 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: B Traven]
    #27930076 - 09/02/22 04:33 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Daaaaamn this is old!

Look at all the TC tags now :awesomenod:


--------------------
LAGM2020


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblethemushroombloke
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 448
Loc: Australia
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: B Traven]
    #27932907 - 09/03/22 10:12 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:
I think the way mushrooms grow in the wild is substantially different from what we're doing.

You've got dried-out cowpies that will occasionally revive after a storm, reviving a colony that then goes on to produce fruits, which drop spores on that and similar colonies, meaning many generations are intermingling their mycelium. Also, spore dispersal means that genetic material from a very wide area is intermingling on a regular basis.

So then if you're trying to narrow down the genetics, the first thing that's going to affect the effort is how far you are from a wild-type. I know I have no idea when it comes to the spores I'm working with. It's basically "X generations from wild plus the number of generations I personally have pushed through."

Sporulation resets the genetic clock, sure, but it can't recover genetics that have been removed from circulation via selective agar transfers and cloning. Unlike the situation in an open field, your cultures are never intermingling with new myc fromm some wind-blown spores. Even if you're only narrowing the gene pool by, say, 1% every time you do a clone-print-grow cycle, you'll eventually start to see the effects.

I really want to step up to do some conscious breeding at some point, but for now I'm just amusing myself with sequential cloning. I've got a few twice-and-thrice-cloned plates. I think it'd be fun to get up to like 4 or 5 sequential clones, then grow them out side by side.




I think this guy from Fresh from the Farm Fungi explains it well in some of his video's. Here's one that's a brief overview.

and here's a link to his awesome breeding project that took ages and he grew  out all these different sectors on the agar and choose colonies that cross bred, extremely cool! here's the link for the playlist enjoy!!!!!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblethemushroombloke
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 448
Loc: Australia
Re: Developing a specific phenotype [Re: A.k.a]
    #27932912 - 09/03/22 10:14 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Daaaaamn this is old!

Look at all the TC tags now :awesomenod:




:zombie5: brains!!! it's alive!!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Strange mycelium development (LC to PDA) Pickle Rick 163 4 08/30/22 02:15 PM
by Pickle Rick
* Genetics daywalker 897 5 12/23/03 08:49 AM
by micro
* help me understand genetics
( 1 2 all )
ksdoob 2,862 26 09/24/04 01:42 PM
by hyphae
* G2G genetic degeneration Innernaut 1,422 6 08/24/06 08:07 PM
by Wronguy
* Genetics of Mutli-spore vs. Clones Fraggin 2,437 9 01/29/06 09:10 PM
by Fraggin
* Specific Puerto Rican Strain questions...
( 1 2 all )
Wish 3,473 23 09/29/06 09:32 PM
by joker_66599
* climate specifications xExiledx 76 1 09/01/22 01:15 PM
by KROM
* Substrain Development j21kickster 722 4 02/26/06 12:21 PM
by j21kickster

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
1,054 topic views. 16 members, 153 guests and 41 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.021 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 12 queries.