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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Libertarians: Kerry or Bush?
    #2651555 - 05/07/04 10:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Bush and a Republican congress have increased the size of government (in terms of spending) at over twice the rate that Clinton did.



Limited to Kerry and Bush (sorry state, I know), who should a libertarian vote for?


(hint: I'm biased)


Edited by phi1618 (05/07/04 10:33 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2651698 - 05/07/04 11:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

None of the above.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2651699 - 05/07/04 11:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not Libertarian...But bush is more "Big Gov" both in matters of telling the public what they should do, and in matters of gov't spending. This in itself should detract the Libertarian vote i think. He's worse than any democrat could hope to be in those matters..

Not that democrats are anything worth writing home about..


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Offlineshroominsmurf
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 363
Loc: Where The Good Times Are
Last seen: 1 year, 16 days
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2651705 - 05/07/04 11:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i agree they both suck. vote for who u think would be best not who u think will be the best out of 2 there are more than just them, the US and press have made it so its just 2 all the time, republican and democrat. well there are others to vote who gives a fuck about what they call themselves. go for the good person. ...if theres such a thing in american politics. thats just me though. i say neither if i had to chose from the 2.


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Offlinehardyharhar
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 75
Loc: Pavonis Mons
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2651837 - 05/08/04 12:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

kerry!


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: hardyharhar]
    #2651846 - 05/08/04 12:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

this year, everyone vote for their pet. and if they dont have a pet. .. their favorite TV/Movie pet...


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2651914 - 05/08/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

a vote for anyone other than Kerry.. is a vote for Bush.. Other elections i might say.. go ahead.. go vote Green.. go vote Libertarian.. but umm, not this year. It's not worth it.


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Offlinediscoabe
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Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 674
Loc: Nevada
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2651923 - 05/08/04 12:50 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

For me, It's not one or the other "lesser of two evils" idea, if there isn't anyone good to vote for, i just simply won't vote.


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Registered: 04/29/04
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: discoabe]
    #2651931 - 05/08/04 12:53 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Politicans pay more attention to those who don't vote, than those that do. The more people that don't vote, let them know how much power they have, how many people aren't paying attention, or don't care enough to go check a box one day every four years..

In my case, there's not a party around or a particular idealology that represents me to the fullest, 99% of the time, i despise politicans all together, but i still vote. You're supposed to pick who best represents you..


Edited by DigitalDuality (05/08/04 12:54 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2652018 - 05/08/04 01:18 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If acting purely on Libertarian principle, one should vote for the Libertarian candidate. However, since the Libertarian candidate has no chance of winning, those of us that use the two-party system will have to make a choice between which of these is more important: low taxes and gun ownership rights or a balanced budget, civil liberties and peace. I choose the latter, so I will vote for Kerry.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2652033 - 05/08/04 01:22 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I for one wish Libertarians and Greens would get enough attention to create a 4 party system... kinda off topic rambling thought of the day..


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2652196 - 05/08/04 02:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DigitalDuality said:
I for one wish Libertarians and Greens would get enough attention to create a 4 party system... kinda off topic rambling thought of the day..




Our voting system makes it very difficult, practically impossible under normal circumstances, for third parties to gain any power.

Read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvergers_Law

You can read about this problem, and alternate systems that might work better here:
http://www.electionmethods.org/


This is completely off topic. There was a thread on voting systems earlier that got hijacked into being about term limits.

Later, I may start another thread about voting systems, since the effect of the way we vote and count our votes on politics is not widely appreciated.


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2652221 - 05/08/04 02:09 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

^
the first link is taking that one party ends up splitting votes.

For instance.. if libertarians arose, Democrats would always win b/c for the most part.. the right wing would be split.

Vice versa if the Greens arose.

That's why i say both rise simuntaneously. But it's theoretical.. so whatever..


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2652234 - 05/08/04 02:11 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
those of us that use the two-party system will have to make a choice between which of these is more important: low taxes and gun ownership rights or a balanced budget, civil liberties and peace. I choose the latter, so I will vote for Kerry.



IMO gun ownership rights are essential to maintaining liberty. I won't vote for Kerry, but I sure as hell can't vote for Bush so I guess I'll vote libertarian. How will they ever get into the system if no one votes for them?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: z@z.com]
    #2652256 - 05/08/04 02:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Vote for em in 08 to boot (hopefully) Kerry's ass out. I really encourage as many as possible to vote Lib and Green next election..


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2652553 - 05/08/04 04:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

im a libretarian and im voteing kerry, not to support or even really give him a vote but to vote against george bush. howard stern rules and this is the least i can do for him. i loved bush now i see his ways and i hate him


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[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2652711 - 05/08/04 07:37 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Was originally thinking of heeding the following quote by Evolving:
Quote:

"The only good thing about a Kerry presidency, besides him not being Bush, is that we may end up with opposing parties controlling the legislative and executive branches. This may slow down the growth of government which has taken off under Bush. When we have two different groups of assholes fighting over political spoils, the average American's freedoms seem more secure than when one group of assholes controls everything. "




At this point, however, think I'm just going to go with the Libertarian candidate.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2652901 - 05/08/04 11:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I will pretty much vote for lower taxes every time. That is where I have determined my overwhelming interest to lie. So I will vote for Bush. I also don't think we can afford a waffling nitwit ala Jimmy Carter again, which I think Kerry is, only without the altruism. I think Carter truly desired to do good things, he was just incapable of it. Kerry, on the other hand, cares for nothing except his own aggrandizement. I took the test and they said I was a Left-Libertarian so I guess I'm one of the people you want to hear from.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: phi1618]
    #2653158 - 05/08/04 01:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Ask who will be the LEAST efficient at taking our liberties and vote accordingly. So far Bush seems to be quite efficient at removing rights and liberties hence will not recieve my vote as a libertarian. In any other election I would vote my party(Lib),however 4more years of Geedub and his running broadway farce called the"Patriot Acts" and we shall be, in the words of the great Jim Carroll "and your as free as a lapdog ,just do as your told"
WR


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To old for this place


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OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
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Registered: 06/02/02
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Re: Libertarians: Kerry or Bush? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2653316 - 05/08/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I will pretty much vote for lower taxes every time.  That is where I have determined my overwhelming interest to lie.  So I will vote for Bush. 




You only vote in your immediate interest? Haven't you thought about voting in the interests of, for example, global peace or of future generations, or the environment? Or are you only interested in how much money you have in your pocket?  :rolleyes:


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