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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,422
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26514901 - 03/03/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26514914 - 03/03/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I'm talking about the big picture! I'm not talking about the whole "you give your own life meaning" bullshit.




It seems, to me, that you've missed the big picture entirely. I have stood in your shoes, and thought your same thoughts. I think most people who engage in intellectual pursuits have done so. I feel that I have had some revelations that have changed my worldview dramatically, though. I hope you will have a similar experience.

Sure, we live our lives on borrowed time. We borrow the matter that we breathe with, and someday, we must return it. That does not make life meaningless. It makes life temporary.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26514915 - 03/03/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I can only hope we vote for candidates  based on position and policy. Glad that millennials are in the political game; watch out for old age, it does fuck with you and change one's mind.




I do go more to the right as I get older lol. Last election I wanted Bernie but now I don't. Now I don't like Bernie Sanders lol. Then again I don't like any of the candidates running including trump. Your mind changes because you realize it takes hard work to get what you want and that nothing comes free. I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour or that we should do a ban on rifles so I'm not voting for the guy. I probably won't even vote because I hate all of them :lol:..


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26514930 - 03/03/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.




Lmao you make a good point! I have a feeling you're 100% correct.


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26514940 - 03/03/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

He could have randomly given it to millions of starving children but he donated it to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation :yeahthatsfunny: ..


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Offlineliving_failure
unworthy
Male


Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 352
Loc: spain, madrid
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26514946 - 03/03/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

Why will the value of stocks in the market collapse? 

Why does the economy of your country depend on the US stock market? 

The problem is, you have been convinced that everything will collapse if the status quo isn't maintained. You're being fooled by the propaganda generated by the billionaires themselves. Why would you believe the very people oppressing the masses?




The value will collapse because people think we depend on billionaries.
For example, if people believe the value of IBEX35 depend on the Real Madrid footbal club and the real madrid football club started loosing all the games the IBEX35 would collapse (with the only reason of the people panicking over nothing) and my country would collapse.



The value of my country depends on USA because for somekind of retarded reasons we first went into EU and then the full globalisation comboed. More or less the last world crysis was started because USA. Also, for some reason, most of the world value depends on the value of the dollar and the value of USA debt.



Honestly, what i believe is the financial system is insane and immoral, and that suffering a little to stop the madness is good in the long run. But i do believe people trust and follow the financial system and the Euro value (here, in spain, at least).
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

living_failure said:
The problem is the stock market.

If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse.
For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.




Markets are propped up by consumers spending money. Don't kid yourself. If you inject a billionaire's fortune into the consumer market, they will consume away, and markets will soar. This is especially true for markets in which goods and services are produced here at home, such as healthcare and education.

One billionaire only needs one college education, and 3 meals a day. A billionaire is no substitution for the demand of 300,000,000 people.




Yeah i agree. But the problem with stocks is that people are stupid, is like i said to Qman, rats will start leaving the boat as soon as they see the billionaries left.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Last seen: 5 months, 9 days
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 2
    #26514947 - 03/03/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Your mind changes because you realize it takes hard work to get what you want and that nothing comes free.



Unless you inherit a bunch of money that comes tax free.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour or that we should do a ban on rifles so I'm not voting for the guy. I probably won't even vote because I hate all of them :lol:..



Bernie doesn't want a ban on rifles.  :facepalm3:

And $15/hr for someone earning a restaurant owner hundreds or more an hour for sitting on his ass isn't that much, imho.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26514994 - 03/03/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 04:59 PM)


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26514998 - 03/03/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
Your mind changes because you realize it takes hard work to get what you want and that nothing comes free.



Unless you inherit a bunch of money that comes tax free.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour or that we should do a ban on rifles so I'm not voting for the guy. I probably won't even vote because I hate all of them :lol:..



Bernie doesn't want a ban on rifles.  :facepalm3:

And $15/hr for someone earning a restaurant owner hundreds or more an hour for sitting on his ass isn't that much, imho.  :shrug:




He wants to ban semi automatic rifles that resemble the m4! So yes he wants to ban rifles that people actually like to use for self defense! If it has a pistol grip and foldable stock somehow it's bad and needs to be illegal in his eyes. It just shows how ignorant and stupid he is.  Only 2% of shootings happen with rifles and he goes on the joe Rogan podcast and explains how we have a problem with them. In the usa Hammers murder more people a year than rifles! He knows what's really going on but he tells young people what they want to hear. I don't trust a person like that. No I don't think $15 is very much money but everytime I order fast food they fuck up my order lol. It also harms small businesses that cant afford to pay people $15 a hour.

"According to the FBI, across the United States in 2018, there were: 1,515 deaths by knives or cutting instruments, 443 people were killed with hammers/clubs/other blunt objects, 672 people were killed from fists/feet/’personal weapons’ compared to the 297 killed by (any) rifles."

This is why I believe Bernie Sanders and joe Biden are morons :yesnod: ...


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InvisibleTantrika
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Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26515007 - 03/03/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.




honest question for people who comprehend stocks better than me
if a charity is donated "billions worth" of stock
do they immediately sell it and use resulting money
or is there some other financial benefit to the charity in holding stocks for a company?

also, as an early internet nerd
will never comprehend how the dialogue around Gates went from discussion of his company being built on stolen code
to how wonderful and charitable he is and how he sets an example for other billionaires
suppose if you are rich enough you can buy a new reputation


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue]
    #26515010 - 03/03/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



This is a billionaire discussion so I'll shut up about Bernie and guns now lol.


Edited by Shenmue (03/03/20 05:05 PM)


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26515016 - 03/03/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.




Lmao you make a good point! I have a feeling you're 100% correct.




Orly? If the tax rate for billionaires was 45%, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Their foundation spent 100% of that money, how do they still benefit?
Btw, those numbers are from 2018.

Why does everything have to be so black and white? Is it hard to distinguish between the 600+ billionaires who shit on the working class and the half-dozen who go out of their way to fight poverty?

Quote:

The primary goals of the foundation are, globally, to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and, in the U.S., to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology. The foundation is controlled by its three trustees: Bill and Melinda Gates, and Warren Buffett.




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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 16 hours, 16 minutes
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: living_failure]
    #26515023 - 03/03/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

living_failure said:
Quote:

qman said:

Why will the value of stocks in the market collapse? 

Why does the economy of your country depend on the US stock market? 

The problem is, you have been convinced that everything will collapse if the status quo isn't maintained. You're being fooled by the propaganda generated by the billionaires themselves. Why would you believe the very people oppressing the masses?




The value will collapse because people think we depend on billionaries.
For example, if people believe the value of IBEX35 depend on the Real Madrid footbal club and the real madrid football club started loosing all the games the IBEX35 would collapse (with the only reason of the people panicking over nothing) and my country would collapse.



The value of my country depends on USA because for somekind of retarded reasons we first went into EU and then the full globalisation comboed. More or less the last world crysis was started because USA. Also, for some reason, most of the world value depends on the value of the dollar and the value of USA debt.



Honestly, what i believe is the financial system is insane and immoral, and that suffering a little to stop the madness is good in the long run. But i do believe people trust and follow the financial system and the Euro value (here, in spain, at least).
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

living_failure said:
The problem is the stock market.

If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse.
For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.




Markets are propped up by consumers spending money. Don't kid yourself. If you inject a billionaire's fortune into the consumer market, they will consume away, and markets will soar. This is especially true for markets in which goods and services are produced here at home, such as healthcare and education.

One billionaire only needs one college education, and 3 meals a day. A billionaire is no substitution for the demand of 300,000,000 people.




Yeah i agree. But the problem with stocks is that people are stupid, is like i said to Qman, rats will start leaving the boat as soon as they see the billionaries left.




Your reasoning really doesn't make any sense from a historical perspective. Stock ownership was MUCH less concentrated 50 years ago than today and there wasn't any loss of economic or stock market confidence at all.

The stock market dropping -70%, bond defaults, banks going bankrupt are not the end of the world. The destruction of an old system brings on a new and better system. There is nothing to fear but the fear generated by the people that have the most to lose.

Billionaires/The Elite try to convince people that we can't live without immigration, globalization, the existing tax code, the existing income inequality and billionaires. It's all bullshit and people have been figuring that out a little more everyday.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26515031 - 03/03/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.



Billionaires aren't the only ones who want to make
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.



I never proposed limits, just higher taxes on billionaires.  It's not right that they pay a smaller percentage than the rest of us.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26515035 - 03/03/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour




Lmao!!! You don't believe fast food workers deserve to be able to pay their fucking rent for working 40 fucking hours a week?

I sure hope you don't talk this fucking garbage, and then turn around and defend billionaires.

Check this out:

Quote:

Bezos' rate is equivalent to $149,353 a minute. To put things in perspective, Bezos makes more than three times what the median US worker makes in year — $45,552, according to data by the Bureau of Labor Statistics — in one minute.




So, while you're busy bitching about the little guy getting a living wage, I'm concerned with the robber barons jacking $150,000 a fucking minute from the American economy. I guess we all have to choose our battles, but yours are fucking stupid.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 16 hours, 16 minutes
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26515045 - 03/03/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.




Who decides the existing tax code that favors billionaires?  BILLIONAIRES!!!  So it's really not that hard to reverse the current direction. The only thing stopping you is your imagination.

Nobody is calling for the elimination of profitability. All I'm asking for is to return to a better distribution of wealth and income. A distribution that was very similar to the 1950-80's in the US. A distribution that produced the greatest working class status in US history. There was still plenty of profits, wealthy creation and multi-millionaires in that time period.

So a 5% annual wealth tax (for over $30 million) would destroy the motivation to accumulate wealth?  Nope.


Edited by qman (03/03/20 05:21 PM)


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26515101 - 03/03/20 05:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour




Lmao!!! You don't believe fast food workers deserve to be able to pay their fucking rent for working 40 fucking hours a week?

I sure hope you don't talk this fucking garbage, and then turn around and defend billionaires.

Check this out:

Quote:

Bezos' rate is equivalent to $149,353 a minute. To put things in perspective, Bezos makes more than three times what the median US worker makes in year — $45,552, according to data by the Bureau of Labor Statistics — in one minute.




So, while you're busy bitching about the little guy getting a living wage, I'm concerned with the robber barons jacking $150,000 a fucking minute from the American economy. I guess we all have to choose our battles, but yours are fucking stupid.




You believe a McDonald's worker deserves more than  EMTS, factory workers, some cops, unskilled construction workers and other backbreaking jobs? I worked fast food between ages 16-20 and I can honestly tell you that they dont deserve it. Fast foods jobs aren't supposed to be for raising Families! It's something you do when you're a student or getting started. Have you ever worked a fast food Job? I believe if they raise the min wage up to 15$ a hour that the prices on everything will go up. I believe $15 will be more like $10 hour 10 years down the road. I might be wrong  :box: ..
You honestly don't believe that prices will go up?


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue]
    #26515106 - 03/03/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The whole “prices will go up” BS has been debunked.
NY raised min wage from 7.25 to 15. Prices didn’t go up by more than the inflation rate.

And let me just intercept the “employees will fire some workers” BS.
Employment stayed stead the year they raised it in NY, and improved the following year.


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26515137 - 03/03/20 06:02 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
The whole “prices will go up” BS has been debunked.
NY raised min wage from 7.25 to 15. Prices didn’t go up by more than the inflation rate.

And let me just intercept the “employees will fire some workers” BS.
Employment stayed stead the year they raised it in NY, and improved the following year.




Yeah but you can't live off of 15 a hour in places like NY. I think it's a bad example to use.

Here are the pros and cons

https://minimum-wage.procon.org


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Offlinefeldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26515153 - 03/03/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Lol!!!
Those same people were surviving on 7.25$/hr!


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