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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Should billionaires exist
#26513693 - 03/02/20 10:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))?
I'm curious what the general attitudes are toward the billionaire class nowadays, so it seemed fitting that I might poll the classiest cohort of degenerates I know, and hopefully find an answer that echos in my chamber.
Show me your mind, fine people, and I will show you my...

Or something like that.
Edit: I suppose I should have made a 'none of the above' on the multiple box question lol.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/03/20 08:19 AM)
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audiophoenix
Find Peace


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#26513735 - 03/02/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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On the surface I think that there's nothing inherently wrong with the fact that people have taken advantage of the system to make as much money as possible. But at a certain point the scale of how rich a few people are vs how many people are struggling to make it and how there's so few safety nets it becomes very clear that the system isn't working for most people.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#26513745 - 03/02/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))? ...
Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen, trans women prefer ladies, and non-binary individuals prefer enbies
money at that scale is imaginary billionaires trade in a form of social currency and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should" people are eager to give power up to others, should that flow be controlled?
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: audiophoenix] 1
#26514153 - 03/03/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
audiophoenix said: On the surface I think that there's nothing inherently wrong with the fact that people have taken advantage of the system to make as much money as possible. But at a certain point the scale of how rich a few people are vs how many people are struggling to make it and how there's so few safety nets it becomes very clear that the system isn't working for most people.
Right. I often hear people say, 'don't blame the billionaires, blame the system that created them'. This is satisfactory to many people, and to some degree, myself. However, it seems quite intuitive to me that Capitalism is a predatory system, in which the disparity in reward between the capitalist, and the laborer is obviously, inherently unjust. Billionaires stand on the backs (and necks) of millions of people, to climb to their esteemed position in the world.
This disparity in reward most apparent to a Billionaire, and therefore, I find Billionaires to be morally reprehensible, particularly when they use their money to influence the political landscape in their favor, whilst simultaneously cooking up 'Dutch Sandwiches' in order to avoid their share of the tax burden. A burden, mind you, which is meant to uphold their end of the societal contract, of which they receive the most benefit to begin with.
Donald Trump, ironically, is the reaction of poorly informed electorate, to the unjust system, which produces billionaires, who fuck with our politics. It is ironic, because he himself is (believed to be) a billionaire, and the voters don't know their head from their ass.
Voters don't know their head from their ass, because billionaires have spend millions upon millions of dollars, confusing them.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika]
#26514180 - 03/03/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))? ...
Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen, trans women prefer ladies, and non-binary individuals prefer enbies
Well, I was trying to be inclusive.
Quote:
money at that scale is imaginary billionaires trade in a form of social currency
I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though.
Quote:
and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should" people are eager to give power up to others, should that flow be controlled?
I don't believe that people are 'eager to surrender power to billionaires'. It seems pretty clear to me that the plutocrats have successfully propagated a lot of misinformation, which benefits them, and clutters the mind of otherwise rational people, on this subject. They've convinced a large proportion of voters that it is unjust to tax them. People don't understand the economics of a billionaire, they think billionaires are more intelligent and capable, and that we live in a meritocracy.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#26514197 - 03/03/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))? ...
Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen, trans women prefer ladies, and non-binary individuals prefer enbies
Well, I was trying to be inclusive.
...
Can respect that, and appreciate the effort just clarifying that most trans people don't like to be specified as trans this is clearly difficult to believe due to the politicization of their identity but trans women and trans men typically have the highest aspiration to be completely recognized simply as their gender while enbies are more of a renegade against sex and gender more generally
but allowing you to run with it would also risk you getting harranged for it on something like facebook later so figured to commentate on it now realistically, it was my only real decision to contribute at all tho 
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
money at that scale is imaginary billionaires trade in a form of social currency
I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though. ...
a billion dollars will buy a billion McDoubles the social currency McDonalds gains through publicity by an individual with that much money buying that much product is what would actually motivate the company to put resources towards servicing your request in a manner that would deliver on demand rather than telling you to send a bunch of your own workers out to a bunch of separate individual McDonalds to pick up a cumulative total
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should" people are eager to give power up to others, should that flow be controlled?
I don't believe that people are 'eager to surrender power to billionaires'. It seems pretty clear to me that the plutocrats have successfully propagated a lot of misinformation, which benefits them, and clutters the mind of otherwise rational people, on this subject. They've convinced a large proportion of voters that it is unjust to tax them. People don't understand the economics of a billionaire, they think billionaires are more intelligent and capable, and that we live in a meritocracy.
my statement was not eager to give up power to billionaires, but eager to give up power to others the average person does not want the headache of dealing with things like politics and all the other bullshit that impacts them they want to be able to live their life and focus on getting ahead the trick of the billionaires is convincing those individuals that if they focus hard enough on getting ahead, they too will get all the benefits billionaires get and that it would be "wrong" to take limit those benefits as it would mean upon finally getting there you get less than those that came before you
billionaires simply have far more resources to inundate people with their messaging, and that inundation stands more likelihood of penetrating, because at times people just want to turn their brains off
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika]
#26514365 - 03/03/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
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money at that scale is imaginary billionaires trade in a form of social currency
I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though. ...
a billion dollars will buy a billion McDoubles the social currency McDonalds gains through publicity by an individual with that much money buying that much product is what would actually motivate the company to put resources towards servicing your request in a manner that would deliver on demand rather than telling you to send a bunch of your own workers out to a bunch of separate individual McDonalds to pick up a cumulative total
I wasn't suggesting someone might go purchase a billion burgers in one go. Such a rapid influx of demand could not readily be supplied, in the majority of industries. If a billionaire wanted to cover the next billion McDoubles McDonalds sold, they could, roughly.
The point I was trying to make, is that while in the billion dollar realm, money is no longer exclusively about purchasing power, it also has real world purchasing power.
All fiat money is imaginary, anyways.
The question about philanthropy justifying the existence of billionaires seems relevant here. If a Billionaire evades a billion dollars worth of tax burden, but buys a billion burgers, does that justify their existence?
The billionaire has the power to decide how that money is spent, and is given credit for spending it, when they engage in philanthropic pursuits. Generally, the money would be used in a far greater way, had they just paid their taxes, but they don't control it, and are not praised for it. Billionaires have to engage in philanthropy, lest they be eaten. In my mind they don't deserve one shred of credit for pacifying those whose neck they are standing on.
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: my statement was not eager to give up power to billionaires, but eager to give up power to others the average person does not want the headache of dealing with things like politics and all the other bullshit that impacts them they want to be able to live their life and focus on getting ahead the trick of the billionaires is convincing those individuals that if they focus hard enough on getting ahead, they too will get all the benefits billionaires get and that it would be "wrong" to take limit those benefits as it would mean upon finally getting there you get less than those that came before you
billionaires simply have far more resources to inundate people with their messaging, and that inundation stands more likelihood of penetrating, because at times people just want to turn their brains off
You are right, in what your saying. Revolutions never happen, when the economy is doing well.
I have a friend who works constantly. She makes ok money, but she just never stops working, every waking moment. She tells me about her bills. They are utterly insane... I tell her, 'Working hard is an important part of success, but it is equally important to spend your money wisely.' A penny saved is a penny earned, and all of that.
My point is, success isn't just about hard work, though that is often a component. I suppose you already understand all of this, so there's no point in me going on...
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#26514366 - 03/03/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))? ...
Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen, trans women prefer ladies, and non-binary individuals prefer enbies
Well, I was trying to be inclusive.
Quote:
money at that scale is imaginary billionaires trade in a form of social currency
I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though.
Quote:
and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should" people are eager to give power up to others, should that flow be controlled?
I don't believe that people are 'eager to surrender power to billionaires'. It seems pretty clear to me that the plutocrats have successfully propagated a lot of misinformation, which benefits them, and clutters the mind of otherwise rational people, on this subject. They've convinced a large proportion of voters that it is unjust to tax them. People don't understand the economics of a billionaire, they think billionaires are more intelligent and capable, and that we live in a meritocracy.
I think people that defend billionaires do so because of their own insecurity. They can't accept that someone is manipulating the system and getting over on them. Their ego is too big to accept they're being gamed.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
#26514375 - 03/03/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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qman said: I think people that defend billionaires do so because of their own insecurity. They can't accept that someone is manipulating the system and getting over on them. Their ego is too big to accept they're being gamed.
I think that they believe that if someone is able to do it, they too, should be able to do it, although I don't think most people even want to be a billionaire.
I did think I would have more people arguing on behalf of billionaires around here, but I suppose there aren't many "conservatives" around lately.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#26514385 - 03/03/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society. ....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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qman
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] 2
#26514399 - 03/03/20 10:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society. ....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.
There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).
1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.
2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.
It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] 2
#26514401 - 03/03/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Billionaire lives matter 
Has wider support than black lives matter.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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living_failure
unworthy



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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
#26514462 - 03/03/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society. ....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.
There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).
1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.
2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.
It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.
The problem is the stock market.
If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse. For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.
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qman
Stranger

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Quote:
living_failure said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society. ....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.
There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).
1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.
2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.
It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.
The problem is the stock market.
If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse. For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.
Why will the value of stocks in the market collapse?
Why does the economy of your country depend on the US stock market?
The problem is, you have been convinced that everything will collapse if the status quo isn't maintained. You're being fooled by the propaganda generated by the billionaires themselves. Why would you believe the very people oppressing the masses?
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] 1
#26514627 - 03/03/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society. ....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.
Whoa whoa whoa lol!
Slow down there, my dude. Nobody said anything about making everyone the same income level. We're talking about billionaires.
You couldn't count to a billion, if you started counting from the moment you were born, to the moment you died. You couldn't even come close. I might also add, that Billionaires have more wealth than kings, thought history. The power that a Billionaire has, in the modern era, is in many ways greater than the power of the kings of antiquity.
There are very simple ways to eliminate billionaires. You don't even have to get rid of current billionaires, you could simply prevent future billionaires. Here we go: You create an estate tax, which prevents people from inheriting a billion dollar fortune (You don't have to prevent them from inheriting a fortune, mind you), and then you make the top marginal tax rate 100%, beyond a certain dollar amount, let's say $50 million a year. This would largely prevent billionaires from existing.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,418
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
#26514632 - 03/03/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society. ....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.
There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).
1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.
2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.
It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.
I'm really struggling to figure out if you've just become a more reasonable, rational poster, or I've become less of a crackhead. Both can be true, and probably are.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#26514635 - 03/03/20 01:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Will never work....ever hear of offshore accounts? There are entire countires who thrive in hiding funds.Businesses organized in a way where it is next to impossible to determine who owns them? There will always be a super rich class.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 01:45 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,418
Last seen: 2 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
living_failure said: The problem is the stock market.
If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse. For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.
Markets are propped up by consumers spending money. Don't kid yourself. If you inject a billionaire's fortune into the consumer market, they will consume away, and markets will soar. This is especially true for markets in which goods and services are produced here at home, such as healthcare and education.
One billionaire only needs one college education, and 3 meals a day. A billionaire is no substitution for the demand of 300,000,000 people.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,418
Last seen: 2 days, 9 hours
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] 1
#26514646 - 03/03/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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SirTripAlot said: Will never work....ever hear of offshore accounts? There are entire countires who thrive in hiding funds.Businesses organized in a way where it is next to impossible to determine who owns them? There will always be a super rich class.
Our government could eliminate tax havens. It is silly to think otherwise. We have all sorts of tools to influence the politics of foreign countries, and we do it all the time.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] 1
#26514659 - 03/03/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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You really think that Congress can eliminate tax havens in foreign lands? All of K street would not allow it. I thought it was cool to stay out of other countries.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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