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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Should billionaires exist
    #26513693 - 03/02/20 10:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))?

I'm curious what the general attitudes are toward the billionaire class nowadays, so it seemed fitting that I might poll the classiest cohort of degenerates I know, and hopefully find an answer that echos in my chamber.

Show me your mind, fine people, and I will show you my...


:freewilly:

Or something like that.

Edit: I suppose I should have made a 'none of the above' on the multiple  box question lol.
Should Billionaires Exist?
You may choose only one
Can democracy function with billionaires in it's midst?
You may choose only one
Of Billionaires
You may choose many
Is a social framework inherently just, if it is designed in such a way that it consolidates billions of dollars into the hands of a single person or family?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (03/02/20 10:20 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/03/20 08:19 AM)


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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26513735 - 03/02/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

On the surface I think that there's nothing inherently wrong with the fact that people have taken advantage of the system to make as much money as possible. But at a certain point the scale of how rich a few people are vs how many people are struggling to make it and how there's so few safety nets it becomes very clear that the system isn't working for most people.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26513745 - 03/02/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))?
...




Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen,
trans women prefer ladies,
and non-binary individuals prefer enbies

money at that scale is imaginary
billionaires trade in a form of social currency
and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should"
people are eager to give power up to others,
should that flow be controlled?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: audiophoenix] * 1
    #26514153 - 03/03/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
On the surface I think that there's nothing inherently wrong with the fact that people have taken advantage of the system to make as much money as possible. But at a certain point the scale of how rich a few people are vs how many people are struggling to make it and how there's so few safety nets it becomes very clear that the system isn't working for most people.




Right. I often hear people say, 'don't blame the billionaires, blame the system that created them'. This is satisfactory to many people, and to some degree, myself. However, it seems quite intuitive to me that Capitalism is a predatory system, in which the disparity in reward between the capitalist, and the laborer is obviously, inherently unjust. Billionaires stand on the backs (and necks) of millions of people, to climb to their esteemed position in the world.

This disparity in reward most apparent to a Billionaire, and therefore, I find Billionaires to be morally reprehensible, particularly when they use their money to influence the political landscape in their favor, whilst simultaneously cooking up 'Dutch Sandwiches' in order to avoid their share of the tax burden. A burden, mind you, which is meant to uphold their end of the societal contract, of which they receive the most benefit to begin with.

Donald Trump, ironically, is the reaction of poorly informed electorate, to the unjust system, which produces billionaires, who fuck with our politics. It is ironic, because he himself is (believed to be) a billionaire, and the voters don't know their head from their ass.

Voters don't know their head from their ass, because billionaires have spend millions upon millions of dollars, confusing them.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika]
    #26514180 - 03/03/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))?
...




Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen,
trans women prefer ladies,
and non-binary individuals prefer enbies




Well, I was trying to be inclusive.

Quote:

money at that scale is imaginary
billionaires trade in a form of social currency




I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though.

Quote:

and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should"
people are eager to give power up to others,
should that flow be controlled?




I don't believe that people are 'eager to surrender power to billionaires'. It seems pretty clear to me that the plutocrats have successfully propagated a lot of misinformation, which benefits them, and clutters the mind of otherwise rational people, on this subject. They've convinced a large proportion of voters that it is unjust to tax them. People don't understand the economics of a billionaire, they think billionaires are more intelligent and capable, and that we live in a meritocracy.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26514197 - 03/03/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))?
...




Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen,
trans women prefer ladies,
and non-binary individuals prefer enbies




Well, I was trying to be inclusive.

...




Can respect that, and appreciate the effort
just clarifying that most trans people don't like to be specified as trans
this is clearly difficult to believe due to the politicization of their identity
but trans women and trans men typically have the highest aspiration to be completely recognized simply as their gender
while enbies are more of a renegade against sex and gender more generally

but allowing you to run with it would also risk you getting harranged for it on something like facebook later
so figured to commentate on it now
realistically, it was my only real decision to contribute at all tho :tongue:

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

money at that scale is imaginary
billionaires trade in a form of social currency




I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though.
...




a billion dollars will buy a billion McDoubles
the social currency McDonalds gains through publicity by an individual with that much money buying that much product
is what would actually motivate the company to put resources towards servicing your request in a manner that would deliver on demand
rather than telling you to send a bunch of your own workers out to a bunch of separate individual McDonalds to pick up a cumulative total

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should"
people are eager to give power up to others,
should that flow be controlled?




I don't believe that people are 'eager to surrender power to billionaires'. It seems pretty clear to me that the plutocrats have successfully propagated a lot of misinformation, which benefits them, and clutters the mind of otherwise rational people, on this subject. They've convinced a large proportion of voters that it is unjust to tax them. People don't understand the economics of a billionaire, they think billionaires are more intelligent and capable, and that we live in a meritocracy.




my statement was not eager to give up power to billionaires, but eager to give up power to others
the average person does not want the headache of dealing with things like politics and all the other bullshit that impacts them
they want to be able to live their life and focus on getting ahead
the trick of the billionaires is convincing those individuals that if they focus hard enough on getting ahead, they too will get all the benefits billionaires get
and that it would be "wrong" to take limit those benefits as it would mean upon finally getting there you get less than those that came before you

billionaires simply have far more resources to inundate people with their messaging,
and that inundation stands more likelihood of penetrating, because at times people just want to turn their brains off


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika]
    #26514365 - 03/03/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

money at that scale is imaginary
billionaires trade in a form of social currency




I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though.
...




a billion dollars will buy a billion McDoubles
the social currency McDonalds gains through publicity by an individual with that much money buying that much product
is what would actually motivate the company to put resources towards servicing your request in a manner that would deliver on demand
rather than telling you to send a bunch of your own workers out to a bunch of separate individual McDonalds to pick up a cumulative total




I wasn't suggesting someone might go purchase a billion burgers in one go. Such a rapid influx of demand could not readily be supplied, in the majority of industries. If a billionaire wanted to cover the next billion McDoubles McDonalds sold, they could, roughly.

The point I was trying to make, is that while in the billion dollar realm, money is no longer exclusively about purchasing power, it also has real world purchasing power.

All fiat money is imaginary, anyways.

The question about philanthropy justifying the existence of billionaires seems relevant here. If a Billionaire evades a billion dollars worth of tax burden, but buys a billion burgers, does that justify their existence?

The billionaire has the power to decide how that money is spent, and is given credit for spending it, when they engage in philanthropic pursuits. Generally, the money would be used in a far greater way, had they just paid their taxes, but they don't control it, and are not praised for it. Billionaires have to engage in philanthropy, lest they be eaten. In my mind they don't deserve one shred of credit for pacifying those whose neck they are standing on.

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
my statement was not eager to give up power to billionaires, but eager to give up power to others
the average person does not want the headache of dealing with things like politics and all the other bullshit that impacts them
they want to be able to live their life and focus on getting ahead
the trick of the billionaires is convincing those individuals that if they focus hard enough on getting ahead, they too will get all the benefits billionaires get
and that it would be "wrong" to take limit those benefits as it would mean upon finally getting there you get less than those that came before you

billionaires simply have far more resources to inundate people with their messaging,
and that inundation stands more likelihood of penetrating, because at times people just want to turn their brains off




You are right, in what your saying. Revolutions never happen, when the economy is doing well.

I have a friend who works constantly. She makes ok money, but she just never stops working, every waking moment. She tells me about her bills. They are utterly insane... I tell her, 'Working hard is an important part of success, but it is equally important to spend your money wisely.' A penny saved is a penny earned, and all of that.

My point is, success isn't just about hard work, though that is often a component. I suppose you already understand all of this, so there's no point in me going on...


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26514366 - 03/03/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
So, what do you think, gentlemen (And Ladies, and transis (My word))?
...




Typically, trans men prefer gentlemen,
trans women prefer ladies,
and non-binary individuals prefer enbies




Well, I was trying to be inclusive.

Quote:

money at that scale is imaginary
billionaires trade in a form of social currency




I agree, to a degree. A billion dollars will still buy a billion McDoubles, though.

Quote:

and whether or not the accumulation of power can exist is outside the question of "should"
people are eager to give power up to others,
should that flow be controlled?




I don't believe that people are 'eager to surrender power to billionaires'. It seems pretty clear to me that the plutocrats have successfully propagated a lot of misinformation, which benefits them, and clutters the mind of otherwise rational people, on this subject. They've convinced a large proportion of voters that it is unjust to tax them. People don't understand the economics of a billionaire, they think billionaires are more intelligent and capable, and that we live in a meritocracy.




I think people that defend billionaires do so because of their own insecurity. They can't accept that someone is manipulating the system and getting over on them. Their ego is too big to accept they're being gamed.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
    #26514375 - 03/03/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I think people that defend billionaires do so because of their own insecurity. They can't accept that someone is manipulating the system and getting over on them. Their ego is too big to accept they're being gamed.




I think that they believe that if someone is able to do it, they too, should be able to do it, although I don't think most people even want to be a billionaire.

I did think I would have more people arguing on behalf of billionaires around here, but I suppose there aren't many "conservatives" :cookiemonster: around lately.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26514385 - 03/03/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society.
....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but  there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlineqman
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #26514399 - 03/03/20 10:44 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society.
....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but  there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.




There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).

1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.

2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.

It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] * 2
    #26514401 - 03/03/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Billionaire lives matter :rolleyes:

Has wider support than black lives matter.


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Omnicyclion.org
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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
    #26514462 - 03/03/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society.
....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but  there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.




There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).

1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.

2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.

It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.




The problem is the stock market.

If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse.
For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: living_failure] * 2
    #26514576 - 03/03/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

living_failure said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society.
....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but  there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.




There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).

1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.

2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.

It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.




The problem is the stock market.

If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse.
For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.




Why will the value of stocks in the market collapse? 

Why does the economy of your country depend on the US stock market? 

The problem is, you have been convinced that everything will collapse if the status quo isn't maintained. You're being fooled by the propaganda generated by the billionaires themselves. Why would you believe the very people oppressing the masses?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26514627 - 03/03/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society.
....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but  there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.




Whoa whoa whoa lol!

Slow down there, my dude. Nobody said anything about making everyone the same income level. We're talking about billionaires.

You couldn't count to a billion, if you started counting from the moment you were born, to the moment you died. You couldn't even come close. I might also add, that Billionaires have more wealth than kings, thought history. The power that a Billionaire has, in the modern era, is in many ways greater than the power of the kings of antiquity.

There are very simple ways to eliminate billionaires. You don't even have to get rid of current billionaires, you could simply prevent future billionaires. Here we go: You create an estate tax, which prevents people from inheriting a billion dollar fortune (You don't have to prevent them from inheriting a fortune, mind you), and then you make the top marginal tax rate 100%, beyond a certain dollar amount, let's say $50 million a year. This would largely prevent billionaires from existing.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
    #26514632 - 03/03/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Thoughout human history there have been rich an poor people; it seems a very fundamental part of society.
....I dont think there is a government that could make everyone the same income level; yes, there are regs that can curtial, but  there doesn't seem a way to completely eliminate the billionaires.




There's two ways of reducing the massive wealth/income inequality (billionaires).

1. Regulating the economic model so it's too difficult to game the system and take advantage of the working class.

2. Tax the billionaires into moderate millionaires.

It really isn't that difficult to eliminate billionaires, yet The Elite have convinced many of the peasants that it's not in their interests and that it's basically impossible to do so.




I'm really struggling to figure out if you've just become a more reasonable, rational poster, or I've become less of a crackhead. Both can be true, and probably are.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26514635 - 03/03/20 01:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Will never work....ever hear of offshore accounts? There are entire countires who thrive in hiding funds.Businesses organized in a way where it is next to impossible to determine who owns them? There will always be a super rich class.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 01:45 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: living_failure] * 1
    #26514641 - 03/03/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

living_failure said:
The problem is the stock market.

If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse.
For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.




Markets are propped up by consumers spending money. Don't kid yourself. If you inject a billionaire's fortune into the consumer market, they will consume away, and markets will soar. This is especially true for markets in which goods and services are produced here at home, such as healthcare and education.

One billionaire only needs one college education, and 3 meals a day. A billionaire is no substitution for the demand of 300,000,000 people.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26514646 - 03/03/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Will never work....ever hear of offshore accounts? There are entire countires who thrive in hiding funds.Businesses organized in a way where it is next to impossible to determine who owns them? There will always be a super rich class.




Our government could eliminate tax havens. It is silly to think otherwise. We have all sorts of tools to influence the politics of foreign countries, and we do it all the time.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26514659 - 03/03/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You really think that Congress can eliminate tax havens in foreign lands? All of K street would not allow it.  I thought it was cool to stay out of other countries.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26514674 - 03/03/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
You really think that Congress can eliminate tax havens in foreign lands? All of K street would not allow it.  I thought it was cool to stay out of other countries.




I'm not talking about invading panama, or the Netherlands. I'm talking about sanctions. Our government has managed to destabilize or topple virtually every socialist regime, the world over. We can handle a few tax havens, and they are few. We could have made arrests, when the panama papers came to light. Our government doesn't want to stop tax evasion, because it is bought and paid for by billionaires.

Last debate, Bloomberg even had a Freudian slip, in which he admitted to  buying dozens of senators.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/03/20 02:02 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #26514727 - 03/03/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Will never work....ever hear of offshore accounts? There are entire countires who thrive in hiding funds.Businesses organized in a way where it is next to impossible to determine who owns them? There will always be a super rich class.




The US can use all sorts of sanctions, tariffs and taxes to make it very difficult to hide money in off shore accounts.  Do you think billionaires really want to use banks in Iran or Russia to hide money?  Not at all.

If the US and EU decide taxes/regulations are going to eliminate billionaires, there's nowhere to hide in my opinion.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26514740 - 03/03/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Fare enough;I will concede that Congress could do it. But I think it would be naive to think that they will. (I know you know that) Even if we took out just the Caribbean accounts other bumfuck countires would open up their gates. Even Bernie would not be able to keep playing the Wack a Mole game.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26514745 - 03/03/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Why would you want to keep your billions in a “dumbfuck” country? Do you think dumb fucks can be trusted? Is the risk of loosing everything better than paying a small share of what you make in taxes?


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
    #26514746 - 03/03/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Q, you really think sanactions work for thier intended purpose? How long have we had them on Cuba? 50+years and they are still around. I cant ever see the US congress putting on sanctions to take out billionaires.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 02:42 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26514753 - 03/03/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I said "bumfuck" your reply of "dumbfucks" is an afront to all "bumfuck" countires out there:shocked:

These offshore accounts are popular for a reason. If billionaires didnt get thier money with a smaller cut taken, they would not be popular at all.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 02:46 PM)


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26514774 - 03/03/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Only the dumbest of US billionaires keep the bulk of their wealth in bank accounts.
99% of it is in stocks, bonds and other shit that is resistant to inflation.

Why take money overseas when the US barely charges you to keep it here?

Offshore accounts are for millionaires and money launderers- small fish


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26514827 - 03/03/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If someone gave me 100 billion dollars tomorrow I would keep 1 billion and use the rest to make the world a better place. After I died my 1 billion would also go to charity's. I look at people like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates as horrible disgusting people. They could be doing a lot of good with their money but they choose not to. Sure billionaires like Bill gates like to brag about how they give money to charity's but I personally think they're full of shit. They'll give charity's like 20 million dollars and keep the other 100 billion for themselves. Jeff Bezos and a couple others basically destroyed every small business in America and they continue to want more. The reason they keep doing it is because they have a high IQ and know there's no afterlife and that life is basically meaningless. Although it is meaningless I still care about humanity so I would try to help. They only care about themselves.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26514837 - 03/03/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Oh man, I agree with your sentiment, but you gotta take Bill Gates out of that poast.

Bill is one of the few billionaires who does charity for charities’ sake


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26514838 - 03/03/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Unsure what  taxes we are talking about, but, several countries  offer less tax on revenue:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-is-the-world-s-biggest-corporate-tax-haven-say-academics-1.3528401%3fmode=amp

Ireland is the biggest “tax haven” in the world used by multinationals to shelter profits, according to a new study by economists from the United States and Denmark.

The research from academics at the University California, Berkeley and the University of Copenhagen estimates that foreign multinationals shifted $106 billion (€90 billion) of corporate profits to Ireland in 2015.

This was more than all of the islands of the Caribbean combined ($97 billion/€83 billion), and well ahead of Singapore ($70 billion/€60 billion), Switzerland ($58 billion/€49 billion) and the Netherlands ($57 billion/€48 billion), according to the researchers.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 03:35 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26514839 - 03/03/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Fare enough;I will concede that Congress could do it. But I think it would be naive to think that they will.



That's a fair point, but it all starts with voting out the establishment candidates.  Voting Bernie for President would be a huge step in the right direction.

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Even if we took out just the Caribbean accounts other bumfuck countires would open up their gates. Even Bernie would not be able to keep playing the Wack a Mole game.



How about simply making it illegal for US citizens and corporations to invest in tax haven countries?

Penalty for violating the law would be jail time for individuals and huge fines for businesses.  :shrug:


--------------------
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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26514849 - 03/03/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Oh man, I agree with your sentiment, but you gotta take Bill Gates out of that poast.

Bill is one of the few billionaires who does charity for charities’ sake




Bill Gates is worth 106.9 billion USD now in 2020!!! Sounds like he's into charity :lol: ..
He could give away 50 billion tomorrow and save countless children but he chooses not to! No he'll wait until he's dead to give it away because he's a selfish fuck.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman]
    #26514860 - 03/03/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Fare enough;I will concede that Congress could do it. But I think it would be naive to think that they will. (I know you know that) Even if we took out just the Caribbean accounts other bumfuck countires would open up their gates. Even Bernie would not be able to keep playing the Wack a Mole game.




I see your post, and raise you Qman's:

Quote:

qman said:
Do you think billionaires really want to use banks in Iran or Russia to hide money?  Not at all.

If the US and EU decide taxes/regulations are going to eliminate billionaires, there's nowhere to hide in my opinion.




I should also add, that we're approaching a very new political era. One in which voters vote for candidates based on their voting record, and policy positions. We, the people, have the power to control our congress. The trouble is getting the American people to wake up to what is going on. That is beginning to happen, though.

It won't be long before millennials, and their children are running the show, and boy are we Tenacious.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue]
    #26514869 - 03/03/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.





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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue]
    #26514872 - 03/03/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
If someone gave me 100 billion dollars tomorrow I would keep 1 billion and use the rest to make the world a better place. After I died my 1 billion would also go to charity's. I look at people like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates as horrible disgusting people. They could be doing a lot of good with their money but they choose not to. Sure billionaires like Bill gates like to brag about how they give money to charity's but I personally think they're full of shit. They'll give charity's like 20 million dollars and keep the other 100 billion for themselves. Jeff Bezos and a couple others basically destroyed every small business in America and they continue to want more. The reason they keep doing it is because they have a high IQ and know there's no afterlife and that life is basically meaningless. Although it is meaningless I still care about humanity so I would try to help. They only care about themselves.




Life is not meaningless. Life doesn't have to go on forever, to have meaning. Meaning, in this life, for most people, is not about acquiring shit, it's about social connection, and interactions. It's about the intangibles.

The real shame about Capitalism, is that it devalues the things that give life real meaning. It clouds our vision, and most people do not understand what is important, and have no real purpose in their lives, but self indulgence.

There are so many ways to derive meaning from this life.

Regardless, billionaires these days are investing loads of money into longevity schemes, hoping to cheat death.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26514890 - 03/03/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.









He gave away 36 billion then keeps 107 billion for himself :drphil:. Why the fuck does he need 107 billion? Even if he had 807 billion and gave 700 billion away why the fuck does he need 107 billion fucking dollars? You couldn't spend that in a thousand lifetimes.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26514891 - 03/03/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I can only hope we vote for candidates  based on position and policy. Glad that millennials are in the political game; watch out for old age, it does fuck with you and change one's mind.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #26514892 - 03/03/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

There are men, and families, in this country with more wealth than the GDP of whole countries.

Stop imagining what they could do with that money, and start imagining what we the wealth creators, the workers, could do with that money.

Billionaires did not create their wealth. The stood upon our necks. They choked every last fucking penny they could wrangle out of the working class. When the recession hit, all of the factory jobs in my area were paying $8/hour, and we were working 12 hour shifts. People were desperate, and what did the rich, investor cunt class do? They circled like vultures, after we BAILED THEM OUT. They made us SUBSIDIZE with grants, just to stay in our state, or country.

That is not their fucking money. We created that wealth, and we need to take control of it.

We're engaged in class warfare folks, and the billionaires are dropping bombs, while most people have no idea they are even at war.


You know what they want from you now? They want your Social Security. They want to get rid of the EPA, so they can wreak havoc on the environment. They want to lower education standards. They are a FUCKING CANCER.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/03/20 04:08 PM)


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26514894 - 03/03/20 04:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I'm talking about the big picture! I'm not talking about the whole "you give your own life meaning" bullshit.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26514897 - 03/03/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I am not that far behind you, woof. I just dont see how a multitude of non billionaires would agree where to spend the money vs. a solo billionaire; as in, the decision process of one, compared to many.

For better or worse, there does seem to be a changing of the guard in how people think and vote in this country.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26514901 - 03/03/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26514914 - 03/03/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I'm talking about the big picture! I'm not talking about the whole "you give your own life meaning" bullshit.




It seems, to me, that you've missed the big picture entirely. I have stood in your shoes, and thought your same thoughts. I think most people who engage in intellectual pursuits have done so. I feel that I have had some revelations that have changed my worldview dramatically, though. I hope you will have a similar experience.

Sure, we live our lives on borrowed time. We borrow the matter that we breathe with, and someday, we must return it. That does not make life meaningless. It makes life temporary.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26514915 - 03/03/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I can only hope we vote for candidates  based on position and policy. Glad that millennials are in the political game; watch out for old age, it does fuck with you and change one's mind.




I do go more to the right as I get older lol. Last election I wanted Bernie but now I don't. Now I don't like Bernie Sanders lol. Then again I don't like any of the candidates running including trump. Your mind changes because you realize it takes hard work to get what you want and that nothing comes free. I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour or that we should do a ban on rifles so I'm not voting for the guy. I probably won't even vote because I hate all of them :lol:..


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26514930 - 03/03/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.




Lmao you make a good point! I have a feeling you're 100% correct.


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26514940 - 03/03/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

He could have randomly given it to millions of starving children but he donated it to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation :yeahthatsfunny: ..


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26514946 - 03/03/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

Why will the value of stocks in the market collapse? 

Why does the economy of your country depend on the US stock market? 

The problem is, you have been convinced that everything will collapse if the status quo isn't maintained. You're being fooled by the propaganda generated by the billionaires themselves. Why would you believe the very people oppressing the masses?




The value will collapse because people think we depend on billionaries.
For example, if people believe the value of IBEX35 depend on the Real Madrid footbal club and the real madrid football club started loosing all the games the IBEX35 would collapse (with the only reason of the people panicking over nothing) and my country would collapse.



The value of my country depends on USA because for somekind of retarded reasons we first went into EU and then the full globalisation comboed. More or less the last world crysis was started because USA. Also, for some reason, most of the world value depends on the value of the dollar and the value of USA debt.



Honestly, what i believe is the financial system is insane and immoral, and that suffering a little to stop the madness is good in the long run. But i do believe people trust and follow the financial system and the Euro value (here, in spain, at least).
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

living_failure said:
The problem is the stock market.

If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse.
For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.




Markets are propped up by consumers spending money. Don't kid yourself. If you inject a billionaire's fortune into the consumer market, they will consume away, and markets will soar. This is especially true for markets in which goods and services are produced here at home, such as healthcare and education.

One billionaire only needs one college education, and 3 meals a day. A billionaire is no substitution for the demand of 300,000,000 people.




Yeah i agree. But the problem with stocks is that people are stupid, is like i said to Qman, rats will start leaving the boat as soon as they see the billionaries left.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 2
    #26514947 - 03/03/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Your mind changes because you realize it takes hard work to get what you want and that nothing comes free.



Unless you inherit a bunch of money that comes tax free.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour or that we should do a ban on rifles so I'm not voting for the guy. I probably won't even vote because I hate all of them :lol:..



Bernie doesn't want a ban on rifles.  :facepalm3:

And $15/hr for someone earning a restaurant owner hundreds or more an hour for sitting on his ass isn't that much, imho.  :shrug:


--------------------
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26514994 - 03/03/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 04:59 PM)


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26514998 - 03/03/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
Your mind changes because you realize it takes hard work to get what you want and that nothing comes free.



Unless you inherit a bunch of money that comes tax free.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour or that we should do a ban on rifles so I'm not voting for the guy. I probably won't even vote because I hate all of them :lol:..



Bernie doesn't want a ban on rifles.  :facepalm3:

And $15/hr for someone earning a restaurant owner hundreds or more an hour for sitting on his ass isn't that much, imho.  :shrug:




He wants to ban semi automatic rifles that resemble the m4! So yes he wants to ban rifles that people actually like to use for self defense! If it has a pistol grip and foldable stock somehow it's bad and needs to be illegal in his eyes. It just shows how ignorant and stupid he is.  Only 2% of shootings happen with rifles and he goes on the joe Rogan podcast and explains how we have a problem with them. In the usa Hammers murder more people a year than rifles! He knows what's really going on but he tells young people what they want to hear. I don't trust a person like that. No I don't think $15 is very much money but everytime I order fast food they fuck up my order lol. It also harms small businesses that cant afford to pay people $15 a hour.

"According to the FBI, across the United States in 2018, there were: 1,515 deaths by knives or cutting instruments, 443 people were killed with hammers/clubs/other blunt objects, 672 people were killed from fists/feet/’personal weapons’ compared to the 297 killed by (any) rifles."

This is why I believe Bernie Sanders and joe Biden are morons :yesnod: ...


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26515007 - 03/03/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.




honest question for people who comprehend stocks better than me
if a charity is donated "billions worth" of stock
do they immediately sell it and use resulting money
or is there some other financial benefit to the charity in holding stocks for a company?

also, as an early internet nerd
will never comprehend how the dialogue around Gates went from discussion of his company being built on stolen code
to how wonderful and charitable he is and how he sets an example for other billionaires
suppose if you are rich enough you can buy a new reputation


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue]
    #26515010 - 03/03/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)



This is a billionaire discussion so I'll shut up about Bernie and guns now lol.


Edited by Shenmue (03/03/20 05:05 PM)


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26515016 - 03/03/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
You sure about that?
What if It turned out he DOES give half his earnings to charity? Would you google the stuff you claim before poasting it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-billionaires-who-donate-most-to-charity-2019-1
Quote:

  Bill Gates — 45.6%
The Gates family has donated more than $36 billion since the foundation launched in 2000, and Bill Gates has also donated billions-worth of Microsoft stock to the organization.








Bill Gates donated to the 'Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation'!!! Lol!

Don't you see what's going on here? He's still in control of that money. He still gets all of the prestige of multibillion dollar Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He probably did it as a fucking tax maneuver.




Lmao you make a good point! I have a feeling you're 100% correct.




Orly? If the tax rate for billionaires was 45%, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Their foundation spent 100% of that money, how do they still benefit?
Btw, those numbers are from 2018.

Why does everything have to be so black and white? Is it hard to distinguish between the 600+ billionaires who shit on the working class and the half-dozen who go out of their way to fight poverty?

Quote:

The primary goals of the foundation are, globally, to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and, in the U.S., to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology. The foundation is controlled by its three trustees: Bill and Melinda Gates, and Warren Buffett.




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Offlineqman
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: living_failure]
    #26515023 - 03/03/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

living_failure said:
Quote:

qman said:

Why will the value of stocks in the market collapse? 

Why does the economy of your country depend on the US stock market? 

The problem is, you have been convinced that everything will collapse if the status quo isn't maintained. You're being fooled by the propaganda generated by the billionaires themselves. Why would you believe the very people oppressing the masses?




The value will collapse because people think we depend on billionaries.
For example, if people believe the value of IBEX35 depend on the Real Madrid footbal club and the real madrid football club started loosing all the games the IBEX35 would collapse (with the only reason of the people panicking over nothing) and my country would collapse.



The value of my country depends on USA because for somekind of retarded reasons we first went into EU and then the full globalisation comboed. More or less the last world crysis was started because USA. Also, for some reason, most of the world value depends on the value of the dollar and the value of USA debt.



Honestly, what i believe is the financial system is insane and immoral, and that suffering a little to stop the madness is good in the long run. But i do believe people trust and follow the financial system and the Euro value (here, in spain, at least).
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

living_failure said:
The problem is the stock market.

If you tax or regulate or as i hope, behead the billionaries, the stock market will collapse.
For some reason my country economy depends on USA stock market so please do have billionaries.




Markets are propped up by consumers spending money. Don't kid yourself. If you inject a billionaire's fortune into the consumer market, they will consume away, and markets will soar. This is especially true for markets in which goods and services are produced here at home, such as healthcare and education.

One billionaire only needs one college education, and 3 meals a day. A billionaire is no substitution for the demand of 300,000,000 people.




Yeah i agree. But the problem with stocks is that people are stupid, is like i said to Qman, rats will start leaving the boat as soon as they see the billionaries left.




Your reasoning really doesn't make any sense from a historical perspective. Stock ownership was MUCH less concentrated 50 years ago than today and there wasn't any loss of economic or stock market confidence at all.

The stock market dropping -70%, bond defaults, banks going bankrupt are not the end of the world. The destruction of an old system brings on a new and better system. There is nothing to fear but the fear generated by the people that have the most to lose.

Billionaires/The Elite try to convince people that we can't live without immigration, globalization, the existing tax code, the existing income inequality and billionaires. It's all bullshit and people have been figuring that out a little more everyday.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26515031 - 03/03/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.



Billionaires aren't the only ones who want to make
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.



I never proposed limits, just higher taxes on billionaires.  It's not right that they pay a smaller percentage than the rest of us.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26515035 - 03/03/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour




Lmao!!! You don't believe fast food workers deserve to be able to pay their fucking rent for working 40 fucking hours a week?

I sure hope you don't talk this fucking garbage, and then turn around and defend billionaires.

Check this out:

Quote:

Bezos' rate is equivalent to $149,353 a minute. To put things in perspective, Bezos makes more than three times what the median US worker makes in year — $45,552, according to data by the Bureau of Labor Statistics — in one minute.




So, while you're busy bitching about the little guy getting a living wage, I'm concerned with the robber barons jacking $150,000 a fucking minute from the American economy. I guess we all have to choose our battles, but yours are fucking stupid.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26515045 - 03/03/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.




Who decides the existing tax code that favors billionaires?  BILLIONAIRES!!!  So it's really not that hard to reverse the current direction. The only thing stopping you is your imagination.

Nobody is calling for the elimination of profitability. All I'm asking for is to return to a better distribution of wealth and income. A distribution that was very similar to the 1950-80's in the US. A distribution that produced the greatest working class status in US history. There was still plenty of profits, wealthy creation and multi-millionaires in that time period.

So a 5% annual wealth tax (for over $30 million) would destroy the motivation to accumulate wealth?  Nope.


Edited by qman (03/03/20 05:21 PM)


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26515101 - 03/03/20 05:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour




Lmao!!! You don't believe fast food workers deserve to be able to pay their fucking rent for working 40 fucking hours a week?

I sure hope you don't talk this fucking garbage, and then turn around and defend billionaires.

Check this out:

Quote:

Bezos' rate is equivalent to $149,353 a minute. To put things in perspective, Bezos makes more than three times what the median US worker makes in year — $45,552, according to data by the Bureau of Labor Statistics — in one minute.




So, while you're busy bitching about the little guy getting a living wage, I'm concerned with the robber barons jacking $150,000 a fucking minute from the American economy. I guess we all have to choose our battles, but yours are fucking stupid.




You believe a McDonald's worker deserves more than  EMTS, factory workers, some cops, unskilled construction workers and other backbreaking jobs? I worked fast food between ages 16-20 and I can honestly tell you that they dont deserve it. Fast foods jobs aren't supposed to be for raising Families! It's something you do when you're a student or getting started. Have you ever worked a fast food Job? I believe if they raise the min wage up to 15$ a hour that the prices on everything will go up. I believe $15 will be more like $10 hour 10 years down the road. I might be wrong  :box: ..
You honestly don't believe that prices will go up?


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue]
    #26515106 - 03/03/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The whole “prices will go up” BS has been debunked.
NY raised min wage from 7.25 to 15. Prices didn’t go up by more than the inflation rate.

And let me just intercept the “employees will fire some workers” BS.
Employment stayed stead the year they raised it in NY, and improved the following year.


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26515137 - 03/03/20 06:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
The whole “prices will go up” BS has been debunked.
NY raised min wage from 7.25 to 15. Prices didn’t go up by more than the inflation rate.

And let me just intercept the “employees will fire some workers” BS.
Employment stayed stead the year they raised it in NY, and improved the following year.




Yeah but you can't live off of 15 a hour in places like NY. I think it's a bad example to use.

Here are the pros and cons

https://minimum-wage.procon.org


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26515153 - 03/03/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Lol!!!
Those same people were surviving on 7.25$/hr!


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26515172 - 03/03/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.




I say we allow a person to have $1 Billion dollars, and we seize all assets and finances beyond that. Between Bezos and Gates, they could literally supply 50% of the United States military budget, and we can use that money elsewhere. Then you folks can keep your $100 million jets and bullshit, and we can have healthcare.

Oh, and billionaires will still be billionaires WOOOOOO!

:toast:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/03/20 06:21 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Shenmue] * 3
    #26515184 - 03/03/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
I don't believe fast food workers deserve 15$ a hour




Lmao!!! You don't believe fast food workers deserve to be able to pay their fucking rent for working 40 fucking hours a week?

I sure hope you don't talk this fucking garbage, and then turn around and defend billionaires.

Check this out:

Quote:

Bezos' rate is equivalent to $149,353 a minute. To put things in perspective, Bezos makes more than three times what the median US worker makes in year — $45,552, according to data by the Bureau of Labor Statistics — in one minute.




So, while you're busy bitching about the little guy getting a living wage, I'm concerned with the robber barons jacking $150,000 a fucking minute from the American economy. I guess we all have to choose our battles, but yours are fucking stupid.




You believe a McDonald's worker deserves more than  EMTS, factory workers, some cops, unskilled construction workers and other backbreaking jobs? I worked fast food between ages 16-20 and I can honestly tell you that they dont deserve it. Fast foods jobs aren't supposed to be for raising Families! It's something you do when you're a student or getting started. Have you ever worked a fast food Job? I believe if they raise the min wage up to 15$ a hour that the prices on everything will go up. I believe $15 will be more like $10 hour 10 years down the road. I might be wrong  :box: ..
You honestly don't believe that prices will go up?




How about we make the wages of skilled workers move higher as well so that the minimum wage doesn't seem so high on a relative basis? 

"prices will go up?"

Why do so many people think if the shareholder gets more profit everything if fine, but if the workers gets a little more in wages, prices of consumer goods goes to the moon?  That is pure economic propaganda. Guess who spews that economic nonsense?  :popcorn:


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26515191 - 03/03/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I don’t see why we need to give billionaires incentives to make money lol
We should give incentives to the people on the bottom, not the people who are doing great regardless.

I also think most people don’t realize how few billionaires there are. It’s just over 600 people in the US.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] * 1
    #26515196 - 03/03/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.




Who decides the existing tax code that favors billionaires?  BILLIONAIRES!!!  So it's really not that hard to reverse the current direction. The only thing stopping you is your imagination.

Nobody is calling for the elimination of profitability. All I'm asking for is to return to a better distribution of wealth and income. A distribution that was very similar to the 1950-80's in the US. A distribution that produced the greatest working class status in US history. There was still plenty of profits, wealthy creation and multi-millionaires in that time period.

So a 5% annual wealth tax (for over $30 million) would destroy the motivation to accumulate wealth?  Nope.




We aren't billionaires..... we will never have the influence of them. Until they are gone, there are billionaires that get dibs in relation to the legislation. Unless a political figure would come to back the middle class first.....(if anyone did, it seems it would be Sanders)


Clearly, your plan on taxing billionaires, seems reasonable from most rhetoric I hear. If legislation is on the cusp; look for impending doom propaganda from the financial industry.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/03/20 06:34 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26515205 - 03/03/20 06:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Orly? If the tax rate for billionaires was 45%, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Their foundation spent 100% of that money, how do they still benefit?
Btw, those numbers are from 2018.

Why does everything have to be so black and white? Is it hard to distinguish between the 600+ billionaires who shit on the working class and the half-dozen who go out of their way to fight poverty?

Quote:

The primary goals of the foundation are, globally, to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and, in the U.S., to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology. The foundation is controlled by its three trustees: Bill and Melinda Gates, and Warren Buffett.







You don't become a fucking billionaire without shitting on the working class. That's a fucking fact. The only exception I can think of is JK Rawling (Author of the Harry Potter books).

Bill Gates controls the foundation. He gets to decide how every fucking penny is spent. That is power. He is also seen, by people like you, who don't understand that philanthropy is a necessary evil for a billionaire (or pitchforks), as some benevolent, righteous, do-gooder.

The majority of money that goes to charity is frittered away on administrative bullshit. Charity is usually a front for highway robbery. Only a small proportion of money donated to charity ever does any good in the world, and I'm sure the Gates foundation, and the Clinton Foundation, and any other rich cunt's foundation, is not an exception to that rule.

I don't ever donate a penny to fucking charity. I won't be taken for a fool.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] * 1
    #26515221 - 03/03/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
How about we make the wages of skilled workers move higher as well so that the minimum wage doesn't seem so high on a relative basis? 

"prices will go up?"

Why do so many people think if the shareholder gets more profit everything if fine, but if the workers gets a little more in wages, prices of consumer goods goes to the moon?  That is pure economic propaganda. Guess who spews that economic nonsense?  :popcorn:




Indeed. Nobody ever fucking bitches when the corporate staff of a large corporation give themselves an extra $1 Million, or $10 million, in christmas bonuses (Even when they tank the economy, and the good people of the United States have to bail them out). Why are you bitching about American workers getting a raise?

The minimum wage is a reference wage. When the minimum wage goes up, everyone's wages go up, cuz guess what? I'm not working for $15 a fucking hour, if McDonalds workers are making $15 an hour.

Why do you think trade union workers get paid such incredible wages? It's because they use their collective bargaining power to influence the market. If you're a non-union welder, you often times make half the wage, literally. The markets can handle giving America a raise, and giving corporate America a fucking pay cut.

Every study I have ever seen on the subject shows that prices go up less than a percentage point from raising wages.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26515300 - 03/03/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Orly? If the tax rate for billionaires was 45%, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Their foundation spent 100% of that money, how do they still benefit?
Btw, those numbers are from 2018.

Why does everything have to be so black and white? Is it hard to distinguish between the 600+ billionaires who shit on the working class and the half-dozen who go out of their way to fight poverty?

Quote:

The primary goals of the foundation are, globally, to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and, in the U.S., to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology. The foundation is controlled by its three trustees: Bill and Melinda Gates, and Warren Buffett.







You don't become a fucking billionaire without shitting on the working class. That's a fucking fact. The only exception I can think of is JK Rawling (Author of the Harry Potter books).

Bill Gates controls the foundation. He gets to decide how every fucking penny is spent. That is power. He is also seen, by people like you, who don't understand that philanthropy is a necessary evil for a billionaire (or pitchforks), as some benevolent, righteous, do-gooder.

The majority of money that goes to charity is frittered away on administrative bullshit. Charity is usually a front for highway robbery. Only a small proportion of money donated to charity ever does any good in the world, and I'm sure the Gates foundation, and the Clinton Foundation, and any other rich cunt's foundation, is not an exception to that rule.

I don't ever donate a penny to fucking charity. I won't be taken for a fool.




First off, you wound me, Bigbadwooof - of course I know who J.K. Rawling is!:nerd:

But see, there are exceptions. And I submit to you that Bill Gates is one, presently.
I’m sure he ruined a fair share of lives to make it that big, but he is going to leave most of his money to charity when he kicks.
https://www.bankrate.com/financing/wealth/what-will-gates-children-inherit/

Also, Microsoft creates a lot of skilled, high paying jobs inside the U.S., even at a time when the others are doing the opposite.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article236648428.html


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26515326 - 03/03/20 07:31 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
First off, you wound me, Bigbadwooof - of course I know who J.K. Rawling is!:nerd:




My man!
:toast:
:nerd:

Quote:

But see, there are exceptions. And I submit to you that Bill Gates is one, presently.
I’m sure he ruined a fair share of lives to make it that big,




Something that is not to be taken, lightly. Ruining lives is a pretty fucking terrible thing to do.

Quote:

but he is going to leave most of his money to charity when he kicks.
https://www.bankrate.com/financing/wealth/what-will-gates-children-inherit/




I can only assume you didn't read my whole post. It's ok, I forgive you, it was a long one.

Quote:

Also, Microsoft creates a lot of skilled, high paying jobs inside the U.S., even at a time when the others are doing the opposite.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article236648428.html




Yeah, and that doesn't make Bill Gates a good guy. You know what it makes Bill Gates? Billions of mothafuckin dolla dolla bills, son!

As Tantrika already mentioned, Gates engaged in a lot of dirty fuckery to get his company off the ground in the first place. If it weren't Microsoft, it would have been Some-Other-Cunt-Soft, and it was probably meant to be that way, in a more just world.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26515430 - 03/03/20 08:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
How about we make the wages of skilled workers move higher as well so that the minimum wage doesn't seem so high on a relative basis? 

"prices will go up?"

Why do so many people think if the shareholder gets more profit everything if fine, but if the workers gets a little more in wages, prices of consumer goods goes to the moon?  That is pure economic propaganda. Guess who spews that economic nonsense?  :popcorn:




Indeed. Nobody ever fucking bitches when the corporate staff of a large corporation give themselves an extra $1 Million, or $10 million, in christmas bonuses (Even when they tank the economy, and the good people of the United States have to bail them out). Why are you bitching about American workers getting a raise?

The minimum wage is a reference wage. When the minimum wage goes up, everyone's wages go up, cuz guess what? I'm not working for $15 a fucking hour, if McDonalds workers are making $15 an hour.

Why do you think trade union workers get paid such incredible wages? It's because they use their collective bargaining power to influence the market. If you're a non-union welder, you often times make half the wage, literally. The markets can handle giving America a raise, and giving corporate America a fucking pay cut.

Every study I have ever seen on the subject shows that prices go up less than a percentage point from raising wages.




It's really hilarious people are worried about broke peasants making a few more bucks per hour are going to create too much consumer demand. :rofl2:

Check out the 10 year bond today, trading at a ALL TIME LOW in yield at below 1%!!!  That means the market is forecasting the lowest economic growth and demand for the next decade, even worse than the great depression.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/investing/10-year-treasury-yield-record-low/index.html

Look at the velocity of money, at an all-time low once again. Where is the Trump bump?  No, it's a Trump economic dump. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V

What does this all mean?  The working class are broke and debt slaves today as The Elite hoard the vast majority of their money. 

It's not even an argument anymore, the economic statistics are historic in nature.  This isn't even a left vs right debate because the facts are the facts.  At this point, it's only the informed vs the uneducated.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] * 1
    #26515451 - 03/03/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
It's really hilarious people are worried about broke peasants making a few more bucks per hour are going to create too much consumer demand. :rofl2:

Check out the 10 year bond today, trading at a ALL TIME LOW in yield at below 1%!!!  That means the market is forecasting the lowest economic growth and demand for the next decade, even worse than the great depression.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/investing/10-year-treasury-yield-record-low/index.html

Look at the velocity of money, at an all-time low once again. Where is the Trump bump?  No, it's a Trump economic dump. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V

What does this all mean?  The working class are broke and debt slaves today as The Elite hoard the vast majority of their money. 

It's not even an argument anymore, the economic statistics are historic in nature.  This isn't even a left vs right debate because the facts are the facts.  At this point, it's only the informed vs the uneducated.




Yep.

You see, I don't really mind so much if Trump is re-elected. At least he'll be the one holding the bag, when the economy tanks. America may just swing further left than even I'm prepared to go (Doubtful, but it will be quite a ripe situation). Millenials, and the next generation will be taking the country over by that time. They will be fed up. It will be the second serious recession we have experienced...

Let's do this shit!


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Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/03/20 08:34 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #26515654 - 03/03/20 11:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I dont think Billionaires should exist. No one person should have that much money and not share it with the rest of the population. Its just greedy in my opinion. Billionaires are one reason why theres so much demographic inequality.

Millionaires, sure why not. But Billionaires? Hell no. People like Bezo who runs a company that pays minimal wage with shitty work conditions has no sympathy from me! :crankey:


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #26515907 - 03/04/20 06:04 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You don't become a fucking billionaire without shitting on the working class. That's a fucking fact. The only exception I can think of is JK Rawling (Author of the Harry Potter books).

...I won't be taken for a fool.




Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
First off, you wound me, Bigbadwooof - of course I know who J.K. Rawling is!:nerd:




My man!
:toast:
:nerd:

...




J.K. Rowling is a transphobic piece of shit who repeatedly promotes anti-trans agendas

she may not have shit on us on the way up, but she does now that she is at the top


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26515921 - 03/04/20 06:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
...
Millionaires, sure why not. But Billionaires? Hell no. ...




Enya is all of my goals:


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26515925 - 03/04/20 06:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Damn, Enya knows how to choose a castle :awesome:

I can live with millionaires in cool mansions. But no Billionaires! Thats taking it too far Rich People! :crankey:


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26515992 - 03/04/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
You really think that Congress can eliminate tax havens in foreign lands? All of K street would not allow it.  I thought it was cool to stay out of other countries.




I'm not talking about invading panama, or the Netherlands. I'm talking about sanctions. Our government has managed to destabilize or topple virtually every socialist regime, the world over. We can handle a few tax havens, and they are few. We could have made arrests, when the panama papers came to light. Our government doesn't want to stop tax evasion, because it is bought and paid for by billionaires.

Last debate, Bloomberg even had a Freudian slip, in which he admitted to  buying dozens of senators.




We could invade Panama anytime we wanted to. Switzerland, no.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones] * 3
    #26516113 - 03/04/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #26516114 - 03/04/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So, in all of this..

Who would decide the monetary limit when establishing billionaires? And when that limit is reached; it would provide no financial incentive/extremely limited gain for people to keep making money.

Be careful when trying to limit greed it is a motivating factory.




Right. Talking about taking everything after a certain threshold is fantasy. We just need a progressive tax system that doesn't allow the superrich to avoid it. Around 1970 when England had a 90 something percent tax on high income three quarters of the Beatles and all the Stones just left, and they weren't billionaires.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26517749 - 03/04/20 11:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
You really think that Congress can eliminate tax havens in foreign lands? All of K street would not allow it.  I thought it was cool to stay out of other countries.




I'm not talking about invading panama, or the Netherlands. I'm talking about sanctions. Our government has managed to destabilize or topple virtually every socialist regime, the world over. We can handle a few tax havens, and they are few. We could have made arrests, when the panama papers came to light. Our government doesn't want to stop tax evasion, because it is bought and paid for by billionaires.

Last debate, Bloomberg even had a Freudian slip, in which he admitted to  buying dozens of senators.




We could invade Panama anytime we wanted to. Switzerland, no.




Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Switzerland is a tax haven anymore.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26517753 - 03/05/20 12:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Oh really?

Did the Swiss Banks finally give in to all the illegal money-stashing that billionaires were doing at their banks?


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26517765 - 03/05/20 12:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Oh really?

Did the Swiss Banks finally give in to all the illegal money-stashing that billionaires were doing at their banks?




I may be wrong about that.

I think I'm right.

But I've been wrong before.

But I'm probably not.

50/50, anyway.




I'm wrong.


Maybe


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #26517768 - 03/05/20 12:17 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

They seem to heading in the right direction:

Switzerland to Tighten its Anti-Money Laundering Rules
Quote:

Known for the banking secrecy that has given the country its reputation as a “dirty money hub,” Switzerland now plans to tighten its anti-money laundering regulations and bring them in line with international standards.




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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/05/20 01:03 AM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26517778 - 03/05/20 12:34 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Oh nice!

I havent done any research on Swiss Banks so i have literally no clue :shrug:


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26517780 - 03/05/20 12:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

LogicaL Chaos said:
Oh nice!

I havent done any research on Swiss Banks so i have literally no clue :shrug:




Well, apparently I'm only half correct. It is quite absurd that a modern Western European country would function as a tax haven in this day and age, to me, but Switzerland is a pretty unique/strange place.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26517785 - 03/05/20 12:41 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Looks like Falcon was right, the Swiss are cracking down on money laundering (finally): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-julius-baer-finma-idUSKBN20E1K7


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 4
    #26517802 - 03/05/20 01:03 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It's not about whether billionaires should exist.

It's about creating a new system where we all do not allow Greed to succeed.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Ryzo] * 1
    #26518107 - 03/05/20 07:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Greed is such a fundamental human trait.  We can't just ignore it and hope it goes away.  A system needs to channel that greed and make it a resource, if it's going to be successful.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26518650 - 03/05/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Greed is such a fundamental human trait.  We can't just ignore it and hope it goes away.  A system needs to channel that greed and make it a resource, if it's going to be successful.




I don't actually believe that Greed is a fundamental human trait, but it is possible that it is. If it is, I don't believe that it is necessarily ubiquitous. It seems quite evident, to me, that it isn't. People engage in many pursuits that, to them, "Trump" the almighty dollar.

It seems to me that there are traits in human beings, that can manifest as greed, which are fostered in such a way by Capitalism, that they do manifest as greed.

Any system, which creates and perpetuates the illusion of scarcity of necessary resources, fosters greed. What is the fear, with UBI? It's the people will stop working, because their needs can be met without toiling away their lives.


--------------------
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Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/05/20 01:09 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26518720 - 03/05/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Even if greed is a fundamental human trait, I'm sure people would still be driven to become hundred millionaires even if billionaires were taxed more.


--------------------
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26518946 - 03/05/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Greed doesn't have to be about money.  Greed predates money.  People want more.  More food, more women, more drugs, etc.  People want more than what they need.  That's obvious.  I can't think of a single human that isn't greedy.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26518955 - 03/05/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sri Aurobindo


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26518985 - 03/05/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26519002 - 03/05/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Greed doesn't have to be about money.  Greed predates money.  People want more.  More food, more women, more drugs, etc.  People want more than what they need.  That's obvious.  I can't think of a single human that isn't greedy.




I've known one person who was selfless, utterly, but he got something out of it. It made him feel good to make other people happy.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26519059 - 03/05/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That doesn't mean he wasn't greedy, though.  Unless he was living like a pauper and giving everything to the poor, he's greedy.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #26519164 - 03/05/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Greed doesn't have to be about money.  Greed predates money.  People want more.  More food, more women, more drugs, etc.  People want more than what they need.  That's obvious.  I can't think of a single human that isn't greedy.



It's hard-wired within us through millions of years of evolution. Survival of the fittest. To adapt is to get control over situations. When you have food you survive, the more food you have the safer for longer periods you are. The more luxury items most people have, the more self-worth they feel. The more control in society people have, the more power people have and can steer things more and more the way they like it so they can survive comfortably.

We delude ourselves thinking more materialism is better when in reality I think less is better. Less attachments to it all seems to be more healthy. Also donating most of your income to poverty-stricken human beings builds emotional communion, in communions we share things, we're stronger. Person X with billions of items isn't less happy with one less  one less item, while person Y with no items is poor and feels very depressed as he/she has nothing. If person X donate 1 item to person Y, person Y will likely get happier than what person X gets from having billions of items not giving anything away. I like to think person X would get happier giving away 1 item to person Y if person X got full details on Y and his/her struggles and how happy he/she got after receiving 1 item. It's evident, a homeless gets overjoyed if he/she can afford a hotel room so the homeless can shower and have a great sleep with an amazing breakfast to his/her standards. If a billionaire paid this for the homeless and the homeless videotaped his/her stay at the hotel I suppose most people would enjoy this video more than if they bought a new pair of expensive jeans. I know I would.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26519211 - 03/05/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That doesn't mean he wasn't greedy, though.  Unless he was living like a pauper and giving everything to the poor, he's greedy.




I strongly disagree. Greed is insatiable.


--------------------
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Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/05/20 06:04 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Pinkerton] * 4
    #26519225 - 03/05/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Also donating most of your income to poverty-stricken human beings builds emotional communion, in communions we share things, we're stronger. Person X with billions of items isn't less happy with one less  one less item, while person Y with no items is poor and feels very depressed as he/she has nothing. If person X donate 1 item to person Y, person Y will likely get happier than what person X gets from having billions of items not giving anything away. I like to think person X would get happier giving away 1 item to person Y if person X got full details on Y and his/her struggles and how happy he/she got after receiving 1 item. It's evident, a homeless gets overjoyed if he/she can afford a hotel room so the homeless can shower and have a great sleep with an amazing breakfast to his/her standards. If a billionaire paid this for the homeless and the homeless videotaped his/her stay at the hotel I suppose most people would enjoy this video more than if they bought a new pair of expensive jeans. I know I would.




This gets to what I was saying recently, about the meaning of life. It's about connection with other people, not amassing wealth and goods.

As an addict, I've come to learn that people need a purpose. Without a purpose, life devolves into all manner of debauchery. It makes me feel good, to make others feel good. It makes most people feel good, to enrich the lives of those around them, and there is great return on that investment. Capitalism makes us believe that the only investments worth making are financial ones, but that is just not the case.

Everything is not for sale. Happiness and meaning, especially.


--------------------
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"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 3
    #26519352 - 03/05/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Connecting with other people is truly amazing. :heart:

I'll take a meaningful conversation with a likeminded any day over the latest iPhone.

If person X is trying to advance medical science to find a cure for cancer he/she's one person. If person X and person Y are trying to advance medical science to find a cure for cancer they're two people. They don't even have to co-operate, they're closer to finding the cure for cancer than if person X was doing it by him/herself.

What this means is if poverty-stricken humans get thorough support from wealthy humans we have a better chance at fixing our issues. It's evident: the more we are working for the same cause, the stronger we are.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26519856 - 03/06/20 01:13 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:

Greed doesn't have to be about money.  Greed predates money.  People want more.  More food, more women, more drugs, etc.  People want more than what they need.  That's obvious.  I can't think of a single human that isn't greedy.




It's the paradox of pleasure.

Pleasure causes suffering because we dread the fact it's impermanent and always goes away.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #26519863 - 03/06/20 01:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Beautifuly said man. Wow :mindblown:

Is greed a natural aspect of human nature? I think in general Yes however Billionaire greed is on a whole nother level that i would argue is uncommon.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26519876 - 03/06/20 01:38 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Let's not condemn billionaires more than the drunkard who lives under a bridge. Greed is greed - right?

It's so easy to hate the rich!    It's a form of hatred we embrace in our hypocritical society.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #26519919 - 03/06/20 03:12 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The thing is Billionaires affect the lives of a ton of people. Take Jeff Bezos. His greed affects all his employees who work for Amazon. In comparsion, a hobos greed for booze money only really affects himself and his childern/family if he has them. Huge difference in impact. The scaling is just way different to say "greed is greed". In my opinion, thats an oversimplification of the issue.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26520243 - 03/06/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Let's not condemn billionaires more than the drunkard who lives under a bridge. Greed is greed - right?

It's so easy to hate the rich!    It's a form of hatred we embrace in our hypocritical society.




It's not about hating billionaires, it's about changing the system that enables them to abuse their wealth at the expense of the bottom 80% that are suffering as a result.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] * 2
    #26520381 - 03/06/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Let's not condemn billionaires more than the drunkard who lives under a bridge. Greed is greed - right?

It's so easy to hate the rich!    It's a form of hatred we embrace in our hypocritical society.




It's not about hating billionaires, it's about changing the system that enables them to abuse their wealth at the expense of the bottom 80% that are suffering as a result.



You beat me to it.  :thumbup:

No one hates the rich for being rich.  We hate that they pay less in taxes now than the bottom 50%.

America's richest 400 families now pay a lower tax rate than the middle class



--------------------
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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26521770 - 03/07/20 07:39 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That shit is absolutely horrid. Is it because of Trump?


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Pinkerton] * 6
    #26521919 - 03/07/20 09:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It's because of Reagan but trump is making it worse.  Of course, so have all the other presidents since.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26521946 - 03/07/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 3
    #26522724 - 03/07/20 07:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Let's not condemn billionaires more than the drunkard who lives under a bridge. Greed is greed - right?

It's so easy to hate the rich!    It's a form of hatred we embrace in our hypocritical society.




#Shitpost

I will condemn billionaires far more scornfully, and viciously, than the drunkard under a bridge. Billionaires hurt far more people than homeless bums. Billionaires, and the wealthy elite collapse otherwise thriving economies. The fabulously wealthy are the reason South America has Banana Republics.

It's hypocritical to say that you support a democratic society, and simultaneously support an ever growing number of billionaires that thwart the Democratic process.

You know, if we didn't have fucking billionaires, we'd have far less drunkards living under bridges.


--------------------
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FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/07/20 07:21 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] * 1
    #26522733 - 03/07/20 07:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Let's not condemn billionaires more than the drunkard who lives under a bridge. Greed is greed - right?

It's so easy to hate the rich!    It's a form of hatred we embrace in our hypocritical society.




It's not about hating billionaires, it's about changing the system that enables them to abuse their wealth at the expense of the bottom 80% that are suffering as a result.




Nah, fuck that. Hate the rich. The union busting, environment crushing, marginalizers of modern society. Hate the rich, the leach, the Capitalist.

I despise them, as they despise those who are not rich.

We are at war folks, and many of you are under the illusion that it's airsoft.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 3
    #26522767 - 03/07/20 07:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Let's not condemn billionaires more than the drunkard who lives under a bridge. Greed is greed - right?

It's so easy to hate the rich!    It's a form of hatred we embrace in our hypocritical society.




It's not about hating billionaires, it's about changing the system that enables them to abuse their wealth at the expense of the bottom 80% that are suffering as a result.




Nah, fuck that. Hate the rich. The union busting, environment crushing, marginalizers of modern society. Hate the rich, the leach, the Capitalist.

I despise them, as they despise those who are not rich.

We are at war folks, and many of you are under the illusion that it's airsoft.




Yes, once the wealth is acquired, it likely sets up the inevitable abuse you're referring to in the above statements. With that being said, lets focus on the mechanisms which enables that wealth to accumulate and eliminate it. Taxation is perfect solution, that's why they freak out on the suggestion of it.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: qman] * 1
    #26522770 - 03/07/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
...lets focus on the mechanisms which enables that wealth to accumulate and eliminate it. Taxation is perfect solution, that's why they freak out on the suggestion of it.



:thatsaten:


--------------------
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26522993 - 03/07/20 10:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
...lets focus on the mechanisms which enables that wealth to accumulate and eliminate it. Taxation is perfect solution, that's why they freak out on the suggestion of it.



:thatsaten:




Yeah... I've discovered, when we're not talking about race issues.. Qman is my motherfucker.

I really love most of your posts dude. I just updated your rating, which I assumed was 0 shrooms, but I already rated you 5 in 2015 lmao.

Here's to another 5 years of political horse shit, my brother!

:toast:

I will say though, fuck billionaires, I'm for the proletarians they rode in on.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/07/20 10:19 PM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26523575 - 03/08/20 08:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Before we lump everyone together, lets recall that FDR was rich. And I'm not saying that all his motivations were pure. But he helped the poor and the middle as much as the rich.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26523774 - 03/08/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Of course, but FDRs are hard to come by.  Like once in a generation if we're lucky.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26523783 - 03/08/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If your worried or angered or even don't want billionaires to exist your perspective is ridiculous and you should stop being a victim


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: bodhisatta] * 4
    #26523813 - 03/08/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The victim mentality is the one that acquiesces to the inevitability of an over-class of fabulously wealthy capitalists and an underclass of everyone else.  I don't care if there has always* been the equivalent of Royalty or Nobility in some form or another.  That doesn't mean I have to like it.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26523940 - 03/08/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Not enough court intrigue to be like it's always been, maybe not enougn suspicious deaths in this lastest round of nobility, fucking slackers.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: bodhisatta] * 4
    #26523946 - 03/08/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If your worried or angered or even don't want billionaires to exist your perspective is ridiculous and you should stop being a victim



That's a pretty broad statement.  What makes you think that the desire for a more equitable resource distribution is ridiculous or that it's some sort of victim mentality?


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26524077 - 03/08/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

There's no suffering because billionaires exist. There's systematic blockades preventing those with little wealth from maintaining wealth that need to disappear for redistribution of wealth to ever make sense.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26524079 - 03/08/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Great.  Can you answer my question?


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26524086 - 03/08/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think people should want more wealth and wealth for everyone. That's not ridiculous. Thinking billionaires have anything to do with it is ridiculous. I think if you're reasoning is getting rid of billionaires is helping your wealth situation you're trying to be a victim of "misdistribution" of wealth


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: bodhisatta] * 6
    #26524092 - 03/08/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

recognizing the forces arrayed against one's interests is not the same as trying to portray oneself as a victim.
it's actually the first necessary step to combating said forces.
This isn't to say that capitalism hasn't allocated resources more effectively than other systems have in terms of generally reducing scarcity.  It is important to note, however, that profit motive has intrinsic limits in this regard.  There will always be a reason to allocate resources to where the highest profits can be gained rather than to where they are most needed, as an example.  The solution isn't to simply tell ourselves that this is natural and good but rather to put serious thought and effort into first imagining, then implementing mitigating regulations to the current system or alternative systems altogether.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26524119 - 03/08/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I think people should want more wealth and wealth for everyone. That's not ridiculous. Thinking billionaires have anything to do with it is ridiculous. I think if you're reasoning is getting rid of billionaires is helping your wealth situation you're trying to be a victim of "misdistribution" of wealth




So do you believe that Billionaires have zero effect on the social-economic class of everyone below them? If Billionaires did not exist, where would their money be exactly? Would their iow-gone wealth be redistributed to the masses?


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26524131 - 03/08/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If they ceased to exist today and were redistributed in any which way the relief would be temporary at best or negligible at worst.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 5
    #26524142 - 03/08/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

look, its a classic hate the game, not the playa situation.  It isn't about hating greedy people or whatever.  Those people have and will always exist.  Maybe we should ask ourselves why we allow an economic system to continue in such a way that it fosters high functioning psychopaths to excel to such financial pinnacles?  I'm not throwing that out as a general slur.  Business leaders present psychopathic tendencies at a rate far higher than the general population. 

1 in 5 business leaders may have psychopathic tendencies—here’s why, according to a psychology professor
Quote:

“I am a thrill seeker.”

“I like to get revenge on authorities.”

“I never feel guilty.”

“People who mess with me always regret it.”

If you think any of the statements above describe you, then you most likely have a tendency to display antisocial, callous and reckless behaviors. According a study dating back to 2010, there were at least three times as many psychopaths in executive or CEO roles than in the overall population. But more recent data found it’s now a much higher figure: 20 percent.




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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26524167 - 03/08/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

“People who mess with me always regret it.”





Life is to short to let people get away with shit .


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26524408 - 03/08/20 06:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

In 80s it was millionaires, 90s ,00s,and 10s it was billionaires, and soon....trillionaires?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/08/20 06:45 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26524476 - 03/08/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Before we lump everyone together, lets recall that FDR was rich. And I'm not saying that all his motivations were pure. But he helped the poor and the middle as much as the rich.




Yeah, and FDR would have continued to be a rich cunt piece of shit if he didn't get Polio. FDR saved Capitalism from itself. He did the rich a favor.


--------------------
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FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #26524494 - 03/08/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I think people should want more wealth and wealth for everyone. That's not ridiculous. Thinking billionaires have anything to do with it is ridiculous. I think if you're reasoning is getting rid of billionaires is helping your wealth situation you're trying to be a victim of "misdistribution" of wealth




Do you think Jeff Bezos earns $150,000 a minute? No, he doesn't earn it, he receives it.

Our society is devolving into a feudal system, and you seem to think that's acceptable. Billionaires buy politicians, and political influence, now they are purchasing presidential elections. Billionaires like Steve Jobs marginalize poor workers in foreign lands, to the point that they commit suicide from the tops of his factories.

Billionaire capitalism reduces humanity to cogs in a machine. A machine that is designed to funnel money into the pockets of billionaires. When you go to work each day, that is what you are, believe it or not. You are a tool.

An ever devalued tool.

Billionaires would trade all of your oxygen in for cash, if they could. Nestle is sucking the great lakes dry to sell bottled water. They rape our natural resources.

OUR resources. Meanwhile, we in Michigan... Drink lead.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/08/20 07:35 PM)


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26524512 - 03/08/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, but Nestle hands out cases of bottle water for free!


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26524597 - 03/08/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
In 80s it was millionaires, 90s ,00s,and 10s it was billionaires, and soon....trillionaires?




If there aren't systemic changes, then yes, there will indeed be trillionaires.


--------------------
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FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26524599 - 03/08/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Where do I pick up my free case of bottled water?


--------------------
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26524605 - 03/08/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Where do I pick up my free water?




That water isn't free. It comes from my home state. It is our great lakes. A national treasure.

Honestly, it is very saddening to me. I love the great lakes. I love what we have here.


--------------------
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Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/08/20 08:49 PM)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26524660 - 03/08/20 09:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Where do I pick up my free case of bottled water?



Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Where do I pick up my free case of bottled water?




Flint, MI

They did a big ad campaign in MI after public waters being sucked up by Nestle while residents could not get kosher water.

Edit: woof the lakes is where its at....Sleeping Bear Dunes every summer.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (03/08/20 09:25 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26525388 - 03/09/20 11:50 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Edit: woof the lakes is where its at....Sleeping Bear Dunes every summer.




My man

:toast:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #26526663 - 03/10/20 06:07 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Where do I pick up my free water?




That water isn't free. It comes from my home state. It is our great lakes. A national treasure.

Honestly, it is very saddening to me. I love the great lakes. I love what we have here.




It's named after your state, but even with relatively little shoreline Illinois and Indiana can suck as much out as they want. I guess the Great Lakes governors get to decide. It doesn't seem like the water level has been effected so far. It could be an issue down the road when the Western U.S. will probably need to start buying it.

Flint Michigan used to consume lake water until Republican politicians found it in their economic interest to poison their constituents.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26528025 - 03/10/20 07:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

We tried to give IL money to help fight the asian carp; cause that shit is hitting our waterways. Bumfuck IL wouldnt take it and did virtually nothing.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/12/30/illinois-rejects-money-michigan-project-stop-spread-asian-carp


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26528731 - 03/11/20 08:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

As the article said, both Governors were about to leave office, so I don't know what's going on with that now. Obviously the Illinois legislature wasn't going to sign on for a big money project coming from a lame duck.  Illinois keeps trying to find them in the Illinois River around Joliet, and there not there. Farther south they're plentiful, and people have gotten severely hurt or killed by getting hit by them when they jump. I'm not sure why they are calling them Asian carp now. They were calling them big head carp. All carp are Asian.

In the long run I think they will get into the Great Lakes. They're in at least 23 states now.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26534302 - 03/14/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Where do I pick up my free water?




That water isn't free. It comes from my home state. It is our great lakes. A national treasure.

Honestly, it is very saddening to me. I love the great lakes. I love what we have here.




It's named after your state, but even with relatively little shoreline Illinois and Indiana can suck as much out as they want. I guess the Great Lakes governors get to decide. It doesn't seem like the water level has been effected so far. It could be an issue down the road when the Western U.S. will probably need to start buying it.

Flint Michigan used to consume lake water until Republican politicians found it in their economic interest to poison their constituents.




From what I understand, the water levels have been going down. I wasn't saying it's our water as in 'Michigan's' water. The great lakes belong to the American people, and Canada. Not fucking NESTLE.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26620086 - 04/22/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Still not a fan
but credit where it is due, this is at least holding to an honest and respectful view



him specifically referencing the ability to get a hamburger whenever he wants provides some concern he read our discussion over social currency and mcdoubles
:fatfear:


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26620216 - 04/22/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Holy shit!

Also, this is exactly why I was defending Gates. Aside from him and maybe Buffet, I say eat all the billionaires.

We can make billionaire hamburgers :crazy2:


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114] * 4
    #26621874 - 04/23/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Suck on this:


https://www.fastcompany.com/90494347/american-billionaires-have-gotten-280-billion-richer-since-the-start-of-the-covid-19-pandemic

Though the coronavirus itself may not discriminate in terms of who can be infected, the COVID-19 pandemic is far from a great equalizer. In the same month that 22 million Americans lost their jobs, the American billionaire class’s total wealth increased about 10%—or $282 billion more than it was at the beginning of March. They now have a combined net worth of $3.229 trillion.

The initial stock market crash may have dented some net worths at first—for instance, that of Jeff Bezos, which dropped down to a mere $105 billion on March 12. But his riches have rebounded: As of April 15, his net worth has increased by $25 billion. Eric Yuan, founder and CEO of Zoom, was one of the few to see an increase in net worth even as the markets crashed, and he’s now up $2.58 billion.

These “pandemic profiteers,” as a new report from the Institute for Policy Studies, a progressive think tank, calls them, is just one piece of the wealth inequality puzzle in America. In the background is the fact that since 1980, the taxes paid by billionaires, measured as a percentage of their wealth, dropped 79%.

“We’re reading about benevolent billionaires sharing .0001% of their wealth with their fellow humans in this crisis, but in fact they’ve been rigging the tax rules to reduce their taxes for decades—money that could have been spent building a better public health infrastructure,” says Chuck Collins, director of the Program on Inequality and the Common Good at the Institute for Policy Studies and coauthor of the new report, titled “Billionaire Bonanza 2020: Wealth Windfalls, Tumbling Taxes, and Pandemic Profiteers.”


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26621929 - 04/23/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)



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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: ballsalsa] * 3
    #26621931 - 04/23/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)



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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika] * 3
    #26621944 - 04/23/20 09:55 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well they ARE the superior siege machines


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26621951 - 04/23/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I've been thinking of building a trebuchet for fun.  We used to make 'em in Boy Scouts out of poles and rope.  You might be surprised at what you can build from poles and rope.  We did towers and a rope bridge once.  Took a dozen kids all day but it was pretty dope when we were done.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26621955 - 04/23/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I've been thinking of building a trebuchet for fun.  We used to make 'em in Boy Scouts out of poles and rope.  You might be surprised at what you can build from poles and rope.  We did towers and a rope bridge once.  Took a dozen kids all day but it was pretty dope when we were done.




child labour really gets shit done


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621958 - 04/23/20 10:03 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

/agree 

Hence we have billionaires.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621968 - 04/23/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I think every child should be made to dig and use at least one latrine before they hit age 12.
Also take a firearms safety course, regardless of whether or not they or anyone they know owns or plans to own firearms


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26622006 - 04/23/20 10:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

In the USSR, every boy was given a book called (something like) How to Be a Man & How to Be a Gentleman. I read my dad’s copy for shits&giggles and, while 90% of it is gender-role conditioning propaganda, the other 10% is some pretty great advice.

Anyway, the guns section was all about firearm “ethics”, like why a “real man” would never brandish a weapon unless it’s necessary, and how in a confrontation the person who shoots first is always in the wrong.
Just thought it was surreal to see wisdom in a book where there’s a chapter on the merits and downfalls of chastising your wife.

I don’t have a point or anything :lol:, Ball’s poast just gave me acute dejavu of reading that thing


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114] * 3
    #26622011 - 04/23/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)



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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26622159 - 04/23/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Baahahaha

Yeah, replace Putin with Stalin and that was it in a nutshell


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: feldman114]
    #26622406 - 04/23/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, we should inflate the currency to the point we are all billionaires.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Babylon] * 1
    #26623965 - 04/24/20 05:26 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I think they tried that in Germany and a wheel barrow of money wouldn't buy a loaf of bread.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26624235 - 04/24/20 09:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Everything is free!



--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26625525 - 04/24/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I think they tried that in Germany and a wheel barrow of money wouldn't buy a loaf of bread.





Just need bills in a higher denomination.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Babylon]
    #26643619 - 05/02/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Money is for basic necessities, getting high and giving away for nothing in return. The heroic doses of drugs we should be doing aren't really that expensive, which leaves an astonishing amount to give away even among the proletariat. There's no conceivable excuse for having a billion dollars. It's considered that these shitbrains are worth billions, but in reality they are worthless. Absolute wastes of immense quantities of vital resources.

But to change the perception of monumental worth, we all need to be setting the example by giving away money directly to people who don't have shit. Got 1 grand all told after food, rent and internet? Sweet as fuck, buy a consensus-reality-shattering stash and save lives with the rest, keep it paycheck to paycheck, that's how we roll.

Economic insecurity vanishes when genuine fucks are given about people. Rich asses would be all alone thinking they're all that, they'd be the pariahs of the world, no more millions of self-esteem-deprived fans defining their lives in terms of them.


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26740212 - 06/12/20 06:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

A bilionaire is like a Pharaoh
they are the one who built the pyramid they sleep in


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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: Enlil]
    #26780666 - 06/24/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

People who spend time on the internet complaining about are clearly not working hard enough and therefor their complaints are invalid.

If there is an area to discuss wealth problems, itnwould be the cost of simply owning/buying a home.  Food is cheap, homes and the taxes on them are a serious problem for poorer people.

If people didnt need to work 60 hoirs a week just to pay a mortage i bet everyone would be happier.  Housing isnthe USA's biggest problem.  Debt for life causing work slaves.


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OfflineBabylon
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Re: Should billionaires exist [Re: meltdowner]
    #26785027 - 06/26/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
People who spend time on the internet complaining about are clearly not working hard enough and therefor their complaints are invalid.

If there is an area to discuss wealth problems, itnwould be the cost of simply owning/buying a home.  Food is cheap, homes and the taxes on them are a serious problem for poorer people.

If people didnt need to work 60 hoirs a week just to pay a mortage i bet everyone would be happier.  Housing isnthe USA's biggest problem.  Debt for life causing work slaves.





I agree, rent is definitely the biggest, most pain in the ass expense I have, and the scariest, since if it doesn't get paid I am homeless.

IMO empty homes should be taxed at a very high rate and the revenue used to support affordable housing.


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